Dubois' problem goes beyond quitting.

The best way to train a fighter, is to train them as if they have limited power 'That is why amateur experience can help you in the professional ranks, because it is all about out pointing your opponent'. Joe Joyce fought a amateur styled fight, notice how he used movement and just kept everything straight down the middle 'Those are not his usual tactics'. I was surprised how easy Dubois was to hit with the jab, he was standing too much in range 'He should of hovered outside Joyce's range then ambushed, David Haye style' i.e At heavyweight David Haye was a ambush fighter, hovering on the outside then attack etc Joyce is very rangy and very mobile.Dubois didn't have the bounce to get in and out like that.Hes fell in love with power and built up some excess muscle mass.It takes alot of energy to do a Haye kind of fight,and Joe is too busy for that to work with anyway.Hes got everything but speed really,some of Joyce's early fights he actually bounced in and out quite well himself .

He’s very good at building fighters too. He didn’t really want to rush Dubois, but the pressure from BT forced him into a matchup he hasn’t prepared for. I was surprised he didn't give Dubios the Yarde treatment .Having said that, I think Frank actually massively underestimated Joyce.As the boxing press seem to as well.Hes actually alot more skilled than he looks, and obviously tough and nails.

Listened to Bowers interviewed today and thought he sounds like a right schithouse. Don't believe him for a second that he was going to pull Dubois out after the 10th. As far as he was concerned his dog was still alive so he was staying in the fight. He didn't care what happened to Dubois and couldn't care less about gambling his health. We hear everything in the corner now. I didn't hear concern for Dubois' health. Mind you I didn't hear any tactical adjustments either. I just heard pointless crap. If Dubois is going to come back, he needs a change. Zero tactics, zilch.... They were more bothered about sounding or looking hard. :wtf1: DDD had no amateur background to speak off, this guys think this is some gangland "Snatch" movie or something. He would definitely need better insight moving forward, am not saying they need firing, but they really need to learn from this for their own sake and their other fighters sake.

As a last ditch resort they could always try to teach him to slip a jab or move his head?

Listened to Bowers interviewed today and thought he sounds like a right schithouse. Don't believe him for a second that he was going to pull Dubois out after the 10th. As far as he was concerned his dog was still alive so he was staying in the fight. He didn't care what happened to Dubois and couldn't care less about gambling his health. We hear everything in the corner now. I didn't hear concern for Dubois' health. Mind you I didn't hear any tactical adjustments either. I just heard pointless crap. If Dubois is going to come back, he needs a change.

The main issue was DDD is the kind of guy that relies on his size, strength and power, but he was put in there with someone who is exceptionally hard to hurt and/or bully. Honestly I still think Dubois could be a threat to most other HWs because Joyce has certain attributes that make him a bit of an anomaly. The best way to train a fighter, is to train them as if they have limited power 'That is why amateur experience can help you in the professional ranks, because it is all about out pointing your opponent'. Joe Joyce fought a amateur styled fight, notice how he used movement and just kept everything straight down the middle 'Those are not his usual tactics'. I was surprised how easy Dubois was to hit with the jab, he was standing too much in range 'He should of hovered outside Joyce's range then ambushed, David Haye style' i.e At heavyweight David Haye was a ambush fighter, hovering on the outside then attack etc

The main issue was DDD is the kind of guy that relies on his size, strength and power, but he was put in there with someone who is exceptionally hard to hurt and/or bully. Honestly I still think Dubois could be a threat to most other HWs because Joyce has certain attributes that make him a bit of an anomaly.

Thanks, guess I missed it sometimes hard to keep on top of it. Glad I'm not alone. I understand people saying about the trainers mentality of fight game but a fighter really needs to have 100% confidence in his corner imo and to me it would be impossible after that. I also understand and like motivation in a corner, being told it's a fight or that you are a champion or that this is what all the training is for, but in the 11th/12 round maybe not the 5th. Also feel like if they knew their boxer well they would've known he wasn't standing from his face/body language and threw the towel in to save a little face. On a funny side note this is a brutal blow against Warren in the Warren Hearn feud which he seems to take so much more seriously than the other side. Will be interesting to see what stupidity he does next. It was looking good for him he had a "stadium" fighter to fill football pitches in Warrington and the next Heavyweight champ in Dubois so was competing "well" but he has neither now, and without the Top Rank deal it would be really interesting. Great point about his trainer saying those things in the later rounds not in the 5th round when he has 7 more rounds to go. He is a young fighter so pulling him out isn't the end of the world in that fight, more like the Wilder thing with Fury where some where hoping the right hand would land, his trainer knew this isn't one of those days. I think they were hoping DDD has a puncher's chance with his right hand, but much like Wilder even when he landed it on Joyce he wasn't doing much. On Warren, just go and see the new interview of him spending over 10 minutes talking and taking shots at Eddie and Barry Hearn..... I mean the guy doesn't have any sense of humour, he is clearly envious and jealous of his younger rival. When Povetkin KO'ed Whyte, he was singing, dancing about how there "isn't a mandatory anymore" and how Hearn was stupid to take that chance of putting Whyte in there with someone who was still dangerous (I agreed with that too). But now that Hearn gave a little bit of the same medicine back at him in regards to how DDD wasn't moved properly, he cannot take the same heat. Just check the interview with Umar "IFL" Umar...

I have no idea how bad his eye was. If he was in any danger of losing his sight then he should uqit or a doctor at ringside or his corner should stop the fight. If he was not in danger of any permanent damage to his eye then he should have taken the pain and kept fighting. Other boxers have fought many rounds with a broken jaw which must hurt just as much or more. You can recover from a broken jaw. You can't recover from blindness or a Margarito glass eye.

Dubois still can be world champ clearly. Let`s see his future opponents: East Euros, like Sirenko, Dychko, Makhmudov: they fight bums only. We don`t know how good they are. Hrgovic fights bums and old washed up Americans that were never any good. Ajagba was dropped by Kiladze. Looks solid ad best against C - D level guys. Yoka struggled badly with Hammer. Let`s just dont act like Dubois is not good enough to beat those guys in the future. I mean partly that's why I'm questioning the corner. He seems to have some tools, big strong guy, diligent in his work ethic and someone that someone could be able to make something of, but he really did just seem lost when his punch didnt work on Joyce, even multiple.

I think some of us have mentioned it already. They definitely act like amateurs themselves, he should have been pulled out just before that round. He wasn’t seeing anything, he wasn’t moving his head neither through out the fight. They didn’t put a lot of confidence in him by panicking around the 5th round, telling him he is in a fight now. Am sure Warren would look at it like he did with Yarde and Tunde. They could have saved him from making him quit by himself, he was left alone and hanged out to dry. Thanks, guess I missed it sometimes hard to keep on top of it. Glad I'm not alone. I understand people saying about the trainers mentality of fight game but a fighter really needs to have 100% confidence in his corner imo and to me it would be impossible after that. I also understand and like motivation in a corner, being told it's a fight or that you are a champion or that this is what all the training is for, but in the 11th/12 round maybe not the 5th. Also feel like if they knew their boxer well they would've known he wasn't standing from his face/body language and threw the towel in to save a little face. On a funny side note this is a brutal blow against Warren in the Warren Hearn feud which he seems to take so much more seriously than the other side. Will be interesting to see what stupidity he does next. It was looking good for him he had a "stadium" fighter to fill football pitches in Warrington and the next Heavyweight champ in Dubois so was competing "well" but he has neither now, and without the Top Rank deal it would be really interesting.

Dubois still can be world champ clearly. Let`s see his future opponents: East Euros, like Sirenko, Dychko, Makhmudov: they fight bums only. We don`t know how good they are. Hrgovic fights bums and old washed up Americans that were never any good. Ajagba was dropped by Kiladze. Looks solid ad best against C - D level guys. Yoka struggled badly with Hammer. Let`s just dont act like Dubois is not good enough to beat those guys in the future.

I think some of us have mentioned it already. They definitely act like amateurs themselves, he should have been pulled out just before that round. He wasn’t seeing anything, he wasn’t moving his head neither through out the fight. They didn’t put a lot of confidence in him by panicking around the 5th round, telling him he is in a fight now. Am sure Warren would look at it like he did with Yarde and Tunde. They could have saved him from making him quit by himself, he was left alone and hanged out to dry.

A very long one.Of course Frank is the master of long periods of hes guys fighting nobodies while inventing every excuse under the sun as to why he lost by some accident or fluke. He’s very good at building fighters too. He didn’t really want to rush Dubois, but the pressure from BT forced him into a matchup he hasn’t prepared for.

Yeah I agree, it’s not the end of the road but it’s a long road back. A very long one.Of course Frank is the master of long periods of hes guys fighting nobodies while inventing every excuse under the sun as to why he lost by some accident or fluke.

daniel dubious is a broken man. the coward will just go back to bullying bums Frank will rebuild him ,while giving no credit to Joe at all ,talking as if it was an accident that he won.

Dubois corner were trying to gee him up after every round, like they were trying to keep him in it. All mental and emotional support. Either he really needs that when the going isn't easy, or they didn't have the capability to offer technical advice. Either way there are some big holes in the overall game of Dubois and corner. He looked a very young man between rounds. Joyce didn't so much as change his expression from walking in, until they interviewed him after the fight, and he finally smiled. There was no questioning his fight conditioning, he knows how hard the game is.

daniel dubious is a broken man. the coward will just go back to bullying bums Yep...its back to UK domestic level obscurity for triple "knee" Daniel dubious Dubois

Well....to be fair he wasn't going very far anyway......I always said he was not going to make it out of the UK and looks like I was right.

The standard of gameness and willingness to endure pain is much higher for a top pro boxer than for a boxing fan. That is part of what they get the big bucks for. They are supposed to be extra tough and tougher than most boxing fans or why watch them? Still nobody should be asked to risk their eyesight if that was the case here.