Luis Ortiz vs Charles Martin

I'm still hopeful we'll finally see Ortiz pitted against a live dog outside of Wilder before the year ends. He has to fight. Come on Haymon. Make these people active.

What ? Ha Come on now there has to be a point where you have to stop being Silly Billy for a second , Ortiz has 50% record of guys he fought coming off of losses , almost half losing their next fight starting in 2015 onwards and some retired after the fight with him they were so bad at that point when he became a name . Why would AJs stamina be relevant on those facts ? Ortiz resume is literally trash and he was gifted two title shots for no logical reason as well but if you can’t see that you really are beyond help to ask who has defeated grade A fighters compared to him ,is anyone reading this guys posts ? :lol1: This is a prime example of what I am talking about BTW. Ignorance is a bliss. Ortiz lost to a fighter who might well beat AJ...BTW lol. Who else has Ortiz lost to?

There are plenty of guys who have better resumes and wins than Ortiz. Joe Joyce (Stiverne, Jennings, Takam), Dillian Whyte (Parker, Rivas, Povetkin, Helenius), Andy Ruiz (AJ, Arreola), Parker (Ruiz, Chisora, Fa) and you could argue guys like Hunter, Rivas, and Yoka have just as many quality wins as Ortiz. The division is weak and Ortiz has a resume that's less than average for a contender in a weak era. I enjoy your posts and I'm not trying to take issue with you but someplace along the line, Ortiz was built up as something that he's not and until he fights a respectable opponent he's just a guy who beat Jennings a long time ago and was sparked out twice by Wilder. Wow. Ortiz was an older fighter when he came into the division... he had enough skills, and the division was weak enough that he was able to get some wins. I am not saying he was a great fighter, just that he was competative, has skills, got some wins and compared to the average today had some success. I wouldn't even call Ortiz a contender... But people act like he has no skills, never had success, etc. He had a winning streak for a while, he fought well against Wilder... Who ever built Ortiz up? All I hear here is how bad, how shot he is... the man has some decent wins, and fought Wilder very well the second fight. Im not saying he was a contender. Consider this: If Ortiz had fought against Ron Lyle, Ken Norton, Ernie Shavers, Jimmy Young... And consider he came in older like he did in this division. Would he have any wins? I doubt it. Ditto for Stiverne, Jennings, Takam... etc. We can agree to disagree but my point is that Ortiz, like a lot of the Cuban heavy weights, most of whom are older, past their best, was a decent fighter with skills and had some success because this division is "low hanging fruit." Put it this way: would you say Ortiz had a successful career? I don't know what the future holds for him... anymore than I knew Areolla would fight well against Ruiz. I watch first and judge later.

What ? Ha Come on now there has to be a point where you have to stop being Silly Billy for a second , Ortiz has 50% record of guys he fought coming off of losses , almost half losing their next fight starting in 2015 onwards and some retired after the fight with him they were so bad at that point when he became a name . Why would AJs stamina be relevant on those facts ? Ortiz resume is literally trash and he was gifted two title shots for no logical reason as well but if you can’t see that you really are beyond help to ask who has defeated grade A fighters compared to him ,is anyone reading this guys posts ? :lol1: you have no credability to call anyone silly. You are the forum laughing stock... Period. You can try to call anyone anything but there is a physical record of your stupidity here for all to see. Posters are on to you... What does someone's record have to do with stamina problems? Grade A lol... There is no grade A... the division is weak. lol... what an idiot. Ortiz and most of the other guys like Martin, Kubret, etc would all be bottom feeders in the nineties, the seventies, etc... Geez what an idiot you are. HA!

What hypocrisy ,we are talking about Ortiz and who has defeated ? Older fighter with health issues who best win was six years ago , yea ok Billy boy let’s not judge that ,you are correct Ortiz is legitimate in the current year of 2021 sure he is without showing why ? I have to bring that up to hammer it into you guys this isn’t years ago ,I’m not sure you get that ? You are humiliating yourself by showing you have no idea what you are even arguing or trying to prove on the thread . Ha The hypocracy of saying Ortiz has stamina issues when AJ who you worship, also has had such issues... And again who has anyone defeated? Its a weak division.There was the defeat of Klitsko x 2, the defeat of Wilder x2, I mean am I missing something? Kubret lol... I am not claiming Ortiz is rearin and ready to go... just saying lets see how he looks... if he is shot, then he is shot. Areolla looked pretty good for an older fighter... threw about 3 times the amount of punches that AJ throws during a fight...just sayin' don't shoot the messenger Redumber. That hammer you hit yourself in the head with? repeatedly? Yeah that hurt... you did make me cringe when you were so damn persistent and so damn wrong lol.

What hypocrisy ,we are talking about Ortiz and who has defeated ? Older fighter with health issues who best win was six years ago , yea ok Billy boy let’s not judge that ,you are correct Ortiz is legitimate in the current year of 2021 sure he is without showing why ? I have to bring that up to hammer it into you guys this isn’t years ago ,I’m not sure you get that ? Who was in the division that was such grade A compared to who Ortiz defeated? I don't know where Ortiz is today... Don't claim to. Just making sure you know your place and don't start crapping up the forums again... Ortiz fought average competition when he was fighting. He was older but managed to fight well. Thats my point. You claim people overate Ortiz lol. what a load of crap. Then while you worship AJ you are a hypocrite saying Ortiz had stamina issues lol. So does AJ!!!

This is a painful truth to some on the forum but most aren’t getting tricked anymore ,time has actually moved on for most of us .All you will get however are deflections of the fact that many out box Wilder and your notion that Ortiz has stamina issues will go ignored because it then goes against rating Ortiz who is actually vastly overrated but you have the crazies stating he’s underrated but won’t give an actual reason how that’s possible when he’s impossible to remove from a top spots in the rankings no matter what doing next to nothing . Ha Who overates Ortiz? saying that he fought well against Wilder the second fight? Saying he has skills? And what fighter during that time fought decent comp? The whole division is/was weak... Typical retarded Redumber: create a strawman, then make up some notion claiming "posters do this..." then claim to know better when in fact, you falsified the problem in the first place... You were so wrong aboutyour own predictions that you should never claim any poster is out of touch ya moron! Ha! Tell us how stupid posters thought the arbitration would stop the fight which was a sure thing... Lol. And tell us you took a "vacation" when you were chased out of here for your dumb, wrong predictions.

What guys were anybody beating? the division has been weak for years. There are plenty of guys who have better resumes and wins than Ortiz. Joe Joyce (Stiverne, Jennings, Takam), Dillian Whyte (Parker, Rivas, Povetkin, Helenius), Andy Ruiz (AJ, Arreola), Parker (Ruiz, Chisora, Fa) and you could argue guys like Hunter, Rivas, and Yoka have just as many quality wins as Ortiz. The division is weak and Ortiz has a resume that's less than average for a contender in a weak era. I enjoy your posts and I'm not trying to take issue with you but someplace along the line, Ortiz was built up as something that he's not and until he fights a respectable opponent he's just a guy who beat Jennings a long time ago and was sparked out twice by Wilder. Wow.

I haven't seen these two in more than a year now. Nobody knows what they're waiting on. It doesn't have to be against each other. Arreola is available. There's also Breazeale. I don't think Ruiz is eager to come back after that shaky performance of his with Arreola. I definitely think Ruiz was trying on new shoes, but Arreola always had talent. He didn't train well in the past. I think the version that fought Ruiz was excellent. Granted, I am sure Chris can't do some of the things he could do as a younger fighter... But no shame that Ruiz had to fight hard to win. I think Ruiz fought well. Ruiz has to find the balance between losing weight and being at a comfortable fighting weight.

AJ is the unified champion,Ortiz last win was Alex Flores in 2020. If you weren’t so fixated on detracting AJ you would actually be semi logical on the forum . :lol1: I don't bash AJ... Just pointing out your hypocracy. Older fighters should be judged by their performance. I don't know what Ortiz can do... He is probably past it at this point, but older fighters are not the only one with stamina problems... and look at how Areola fought, him and Ruiz set a record for punches thrown I believe? You kow... SHOT Arreola? The division is so weak that cruisers, older fighters, etc all want a chance, especially before the next prospects are seasoned. Learn how to think instead of always trying to bet people, prove someone is wrong, etc... It would keep you from being humiliated again...Just sayin

This is a painful truth to some on the forum but most aren’t getting tricked anymore ,time has actually moved on for most of us .All you will get however are deflections of the fact that many out box Wilder and your notion that Ortiz has stamina issues will go ignored because it then goes against rating Ortiz who is actually vastly overrated but you have the crazies stating he’s underrated but won’t give an actual reason how that’s possible when he’s impossible to remove from a top spots in the rankings no matter what doing next to nothing . Ha Doesn't Aj also have stamina issues? ahem...

I respect your opinion but what guys was Ortiz beating? Other than Jennings 6+ years ago, what was his 2nd best win? A 42 year old Tony Thompson with 6 losses, career opponent Christian Hammer or Travis Kaufman (whom Otto Wallin destroyed in 5 rounds after he went 10 with Ortiz)? Ortiz resume is incredibly thin. He doesn't have many good wins and he rarely looks good in those wins. ​​​​ What guys were anybody beating? the division has been weak for years. Who was Klitsko beating? The last guy who was beating competative comp was imo Lennox Lewis. As far as Ortiz now? I judge by the shape I see a guy come in, and how he performs. But its important to recognize that the division has been weak now for years...

I haven't seen these two in more than a year now. Nobody knows what they're waiting on. It doesn't have to be against each other. Arreola is available. There's also Breazeale. I don't think Ruiz is eager to come back after that shaky performance of his with Arreola.

I rate him and all fighters based on watching what he can do in the ring.....Ortiz had a fair run where he was beating guys... i rate that as a good run.... I respect your opinion but what guys was Ortiz beating? Other than Jennings 6+ years ago, what was his 2nd best win? A 42 year old Tony Thompson with 6 losses, career opponent Christian Hammer or Travis Kaufman (whom Otto Wallin destroyed in 5 rounds after he went 10 with Ortiz)? Ortiz resume is incredibly thin. He doesn't have many good wins and he rarely looks good in those wins. ​​​​

It wouldn’t matter really you can’t take victories in guys you haven’t fought and say you beat them . The fact is Martin right now would be a top win for Ortiz that’s just a fact . Fighters on the forum are protected on here at ridiculously high level . No one actually knows who would win that fight ,I’m not even sure I’d favor Ortiz if they signed today looking at his fights ? I think most have been reasonable looking at this and think it could go either way which makes it a fight that should happen if it’s the easiest one to make . Yeah, I looked at his boxrec and saw a lot of wtf is that guy on there. To think, Wilder went toe to toe with this guy twice....

I gotta disagree. While I think Ortiz is a skilled boxer, he's old and and has suspect stamina. His win over Jennings was impressive but how long ago was that? Does anyone remember him slowly shuffling around the ring, unable to put away Malik Scott who was trying to fall down and get KO'd? We rate him because he outboxed Wilder before getting sparked? Wilder has been outboxed by plenty of fighters. I rate him and all fighters based on watching what he can do in the ring. Yes his stamina catches up to him because of his age, no doubt, but he also manages to fight on and throw a pretty good volume of punches. Ortiz had a fair run where he was beating guys... i rate that as a good run. Regarding the Wilder fight, Ortiz was fighting superbly that fight. The fact that others outboxed Wilder is a fair point... Certainly it is no great fiat by itself. But heres the thing: If your going to beat Wilder, most guys will have to outbox him to start. Ortiz did an exceptional job boxing Wilder. He was frustrating Wilder, setting the tempo up nicely, using his jab well... Wilder caught him... I mean Ortiz lost fair because of what Wilder did... But when you look at Wilder's fights and how others did outboxing him, I think Ortiz did an exceptional job... he just got caught. many people think automatically an older fighter is shot. Areola in his last fight threw a tremendous amount of punches... and yet many still think he was shot. Ortiz does not have the capacity for volume punching, he cannot really fight a full fight 3 minutes of every round... But he still is dangerous because he has a lot of skills.

Martin would be arguably Ortiz’s best win ,and that’s if he won . At least at this stage at his age a Martin win will not be so easy . Meh, idk tbh, I think Jennings was his best win....hunter, ruiz, parker or whyte would be better than Martin (who aint done shi.t)

At tbis point, if ortiz isnt fighting a top 10 ranked hw, theres no point in watching him. Hes 50+ and should be demanding big fights. Martin aint sh.it

Fair question. Ortiz has to be the most chronically underated heavyweight. Certainly he has to show up in shape, certainly he is older, past his best... But the guy is skilled, has a decent chin, and is smart as a fox. I would actually take him over Martin, provided he came in like he did against Wilder that second fight. I gotta disagree. While I think Ortiz is a skilled boxer, he's old and and has suspect stamina. His win over Jennings was impressive but how long ago was that? Does anyone remember him slowly shuffling around the ring, unable to put away Malik Scott who was trying to fall down and get KO'd? We rate him because he outboxed Wilder before getting sparked? Wilder has been outboxed by plenty of fighters.

Fair question. Ortiz has to be the most chronically underated heavyweight. Certainly he has to show up in shape, certainly he is older, past his best... But the guy is skilled, has a decent chin, and is smart as a fox. I would actually take him over Martin, provided he came in like he did against Wilder that second fight. I do rate Ortiz. His performances against Wilder showed he could easily beat him if Wilder didn’t have the power that he does. I think he gives Fury a test. I think AJ would eventually stop him after a good scrap. He did have a HUGE opportunity though and he threw it down the toilet over money. You’ll probably be able to say the same thing about every HW ranked 4-50, right now. They want the money fight without putting it all on the line against someone of the same standard.