We do not see Great coaches and trainers anymore.

:lol1: IF I could be paid to teach people boxing I would regardless of my ability to make a champion. Ain't no shame in being low end or beginner level if you recognize it and bring kids to the next guy when they're ready for it. However, IF I could train folks for money and I had trained a few I wouldn't take credit for one out of thirty being worth a ****. I'd give that credit to that one. The trainer makes the fighter in the gym. The fighter makes the trainer in the ring.

The best coaches are in the amateur gyms, and stay on the amateur scene 'Once a fighter has learnt his trade in the amateur scene, professional trainers are only really there to build confidence and maintain what they have fundamentally learnt' That is why it is usually a bad idea, when fighters part ways with trainers who have built them up 'Probably why Whyte was sparked out vs Povetkin'. Deep down all the great trainers have a passion for the amateur game and building fighters up from the beginning etc Note: Sugar Hill Steward, has stated that he wanted to retire and continue to work with amateurs 'I have known boxing trainers, who have stated that they prefer training amateurs and working in that environment'. I’m guessing it’s because you can get more even competition for your guys. It lights a little fire under your ass. Boxing, especially now, is padding to 30-0, and every competitive fight is heavily calculated. Can’t have two guy’s at their peak duking it out. Someone has to be coming off a loss, jumping/dropping weight, on the decline etc. But yea. Emmanuel I believe had said the same thing about preferring training the amateurs.

You do not have those dedicated fighters who wish to put in the effort to learn all boxing skills. Today, it is more important that you look like a model so you can get endorsement deals and how many instagram followers you have. Without the dedication in the sports, you won't get the great trainers. The best fighters in the word do exactly what you say they don't do. Don't call Ryan Garcia a top fighter.

The best coaches are in the amateur gyms, and stay on the amateur scene 'Once a fighter has learnt his trade in the amateur scene, professional trainers are only really there to build confidence and maintain what they have fundamentally learnt' That is why it is usually a bad idea, when fighters part ways with trainers who have built them up 'Probably why Whyte was sparked out vs Povetkin'. Deep down all the great trainers have a passion for the amateur game and building fighters up from the beginning etc Note: Sugar Hill Steward, has stated that he wanted to retire and continue to work with amateurs 'I have known boxing trainers, who have stated that they prefer training amateurs and working in that environment'.

To be honest I think in general trainers and their roles in boxing have been exaggerated through all of boxing history. Maybe they do have an impact, but, I too am confident if I had a stable of 30 men at least one of those ****s would be a champion. No way bro. If you could do that, you'd go out and do it. There's a lot of money to be made as a trainer. It's difficult to build a champion. Very difficult. It's a very long road.

Good Trainers are not Cheap :lol1:

Odd isn't it. Maybe boxers don't like to share the spotlight, or want people to think there's a puppet-master of Svengali pulling the strings? If a trainer pulled a stunt like Angelo Dundee ("You're blowin' it, son,") he'd be out! Ali and Ray Leonard didn't mind people pointing to Angelo Dundee, and there was also Gil Clancy, Lou Duva and Emanuel Steward. It seemed that the more famous trainers had a whole stable of fighters. Now, it's pretty rare to be able to name a trainer/manager. There are so many decent ones that a fighter doesn't look for the "star" who trained a big name fighter? There are more gyms? Or, are fighters smarter, watch more boxing tapes, and don't need a high profile guy yelling at them or pep-talking between rounds?

Trainers and coaches are overrated in all sports.

You do not have those dedicated fighters who wish to put in the effort to learn all boxing skills. Today, it is more important that you look like a model so you can get endorsement deals and how many instagram followers you have. Without the dedication in the sports, you won't get the great trainers.

Even a lot of top trainers from the past had their fair share of average and poor fighters. Theres so many other factors too. You have big name trainers that got who were already established but have never trained fighters from the ground up and made them into a world champion. And then you have some place like the ingle gym who have had quite a few world champions that they literally had from childhood, right through to the amateur system, into professional and world champion. Maybe you could say producing three or four world champions from childhood is more impressive than having 15 world champions that you got when they were already established fighters. It really just depends on what we consider great trainers. And then you have fighters that can pretty much make a trainer. Tyson Fury had never really had a proper established trainer until Sugar Hill. Not that sugar was considered one of the lead trainers but you had worked with good names like Adonis Stevenson. With Fury It’s always been friends and family. People talk about Peter Fury has been an excellent trainer but in reality he never trained Tyson very early on in his pro career, his late uncle Hughie did, and Peter never had any previous experience and hasn’t really set the world alight with other fighters. The likelihood is Tyson Fury would’ve still been excellent regardless of who trained him. some people just have it. Even Virgil Hunter, he might’ve trained Ward from a young age but has he ever truly made other fighters look much better? Not really. That’s not to disrespect hunters achievement with Ward, but Ward might have been just as exceptional with other trainers.

Show me a trainer who never ****s up and I'll call him great. Losses are losses, no big deal, I'm not asking for trainers who make Rocky's just a trainer with no Clarences. Nice post March, I always appreciate your input, as your knowledge of the past in Boxing puts us all to shame. Ironically, I don't think Ben Davison has ever been in the losing corner of a pro fight. He has trained some palookas (Tom Little, Ashley Sexton), but Little won all 3 fights he had with Davison in the corner, and Sexton never had a fight while with him. His better known fighters are the Gypsy King, Billy Joe Saunders and recently Josh Taylor. Interesting, as your point is a valid one.

I think elite boxers need to have 2 or 3 good trainers to call on depending on the opponent. Some trainers have the seek and destroy style where others are slicker and more elusive type trainers. In the end it will make a fighter more well rounded. I understand brand loyalty but at some point training seems to turn stale and you dont reap the benefits like you should.

I understand it feels as though there are less great trainers and coaches but I’m not sure how we prove that. On the other end, we the fans want to see greatness in people before their time. We crave greatness that we express that ****. Our measuring stick is only stuck on the present instead of over a long period of time.

I disagree. It seems as though trainers now days just spread themselves alot thinner. Instead of 3-4 fighters to dial in, they have 25. What I think is going down is the quality of referees and judges. It doesn't mean crap if you have a great fighter/trainer if you have crap judges and refs, thats what we should be talking about.

Fighters roll with whoever and just rely on their own ability and nous. A fighter like Tyson Fury could probably fight and win at the highest level, without a trainer, for example. Have the times changed? Seems to be back in the day the trainers and coaches were highly valued. You had highly sought after trainers with a stable of top fighters, trainers nurturing fighters from the Amateurs to the pinnacle of the Pros, etc. Top quality, renowned names. These days we have Jay Deas, Ben Davison, people like Shane McGuigan who decide they wanna become a trainer and within 6 months they're in World title fights, etc. Have fighters evolved, or trainers declined? Yes but stop using Fury as an example for any norm, he is an exception to every rule. Times changing have nothing to do with Fury, he is an outlier, a phenom born every thousand years. Yes we have less trainer talent, much boxing knowledge has died off and been lost. It's one of the main reasons boxing isn't progressing its regression. Less skilled fighters on average, less active professionals and amateurs, a smaller talent pool leads to a lower bar. Whenever you hear someone make the lazy (and recent ) take of "all.other sports have advanced, boxing too", ignore those people or educate them. Its not the case and its ignorant to suggest it. We, who are part of what is really a sub culture at this point, are the minority. Most people DKSAB. That can't be overstated. Bookies, analysts, writers, bloggers, 90% of them really dont have a clue. They rely on peer input, history, trend analysis, and odds. Of course their takes are largely inaccurate or foolish but the casual masses run with it and try to spin material into fact. It's easy to disagree with rankings, ratings and popular takes when you speak from your own heart and knowledge and you don't let exterior influences affect you. My eye test trumps all, for me. Hasn't failed me much and I can defend any statement i make with clarity. Many media heads cannot if challenged. They don't know the meaning of the euphemisms they throw around.

Some interesting points. I think that during the development stage on a fighters career, they will benefit massively from a good Coach. Take Tyson Fury for example. He was a good prospect that was massively flawed and not fighting to his strengths until Peter Fury got him and developed him over the course of several years. Peter really did an outstanding job with Tyson, and he's doing a good job with Hughie, Hughie just lacks some of the gifts that Tyson possesses. Once a fighter has got to world/elite level, what they need and who they need depends on the individual. When Fury needed to get in shame and stay motivated, he brought in Ben Davison, the right man for the job. Once it got to the point that Tyson no longer needed full time specialised help in that regard (nutrition/fitness, etc) He went to a man who could develop his offence to elite level, to match the rest of his game - Sugar Hill. Who I expect him to stay with for the remainder of his career. I thought it was best to use one fighter as an example here. I'd like to see some other people list some more individual examples of what has worked/hasn't worked, etc. It's an interesting one, as the Coach doesn't get into the ring and win the fight, but they certainly play a part, some a lot more so than others, but at the same time, I've always felt that some Coaches who just land on a good fighter and contribute very little, but take a huge amount of credit are overhyped.