Why do people say Canelo and Floyd were taking risks

yep, they both should have just fought a bunch of mandatory defenses and then they would be great right? I mean Floyd never even fought outside of the US man...I'm just saying that usually being the Mega A-side like Floyd and Canelo, means you are a great fighter...but also that you don't really take big risks because you don't have to. You put everything in your favor and know you just need to go 12...and you can pick the best fighter available against whom you know you will go 12...and when that happens, you get the W. They aren't picking bums...and obviously I don't think they are bums themselves...they are great fighters and imo probably 2 of the 5 or at worst 10 best pfp of the past 2 decades...imo only Pac, GGG, and Wlad immediately come to mind...with a few others like Loma being maybes. But when you are that much of a Mega A-side, and have the skills to back it up....you just rarely take any risks. If Floyd fought Pac in the Phillipines, that is a 'big' risk etc...and because of Floyd's status, he doesn't need to do sh.it like that...same as Canelo. I am just tired of seeing all these 'Canelo is taking big risks' threads and posts...how risky is it when you know that 9/10 times you are going 12 rounds with someone like BJS...and that 9/10 times if it goes 12 rounds, you are getting the win. By that math, Canelo is an 80% favorite to WIN vs BJS...and probably 15% to draw...and maybe 5% to lose...I mean how is that a risk.

Canelo/BJS in Vegas going 12 for a ud for Nelo would probably be one of the safest bets to make this year. Lol right dude...I can't really see anything else...maybe a MD or SD but yeah good point...wonder what the odds will be

I'm not saying they suck at all...as I said, they are two of the best 10 or whatever fighters of the past 2 decades imo. But yeah whatever they are doing, it isn't taking risks at this point...not big risks anyway...of course if they weren't that good then they wouldn't even be able to go 12 rounds with guys like Mosley, Cotto, GGG etc. But yeah it is not risky for Canelo to face BJS in Vegas...it is going 12 rounds, and when it does, we know Canelo is winning. More power to him but yeah it isn't risk taking Canelo/BJS in Vegas going 12 for a ud for Nelo would probably be one of the safest bets to make this year.

In boxing all it takes is one punch. Look at how Mosley landed on floyd or how cottos brother did canelo when he was green you just never know man. Every fight there is some risk and yes they have all the cards piled on their side but you never know how that one punch can affect you. I'm not saying they suck at all...as I said, they are two of the best 10 or whatever fighters of the past 2 decades imo. But yeah whatever they are doing, it isn't taking risks at this point...not big risks anyway...of course if they weren't that good then they wouldn't even be able to go 12 rounds with guys like Mosley, Cotto, GGG etc. But yeah it is not risky for Canelo to face BJS in Vegas...it is going 12 rounds, and when it does, we know Canelo is winning. More power to him but yeah it isn't risk taking

The problem is that you say you admit theyre great but you dont realize that in Floyd’s case, he was favored 100% of the time against anyone at WW. Canelo fought someone he wasnt favoured against twice in GGG and then fought the number 3 guy in his division. Point is they’re *always* favoured unless they go almost irrationally out of the way to not be by going completely out of their divisions. There isn’t a fighter at 154 who was favored against Canelo pre GGG. Post GGG and Jacobs at 160 he’s RIGHTFULLY a heavy favorite against every fighter. You never become the top earner in boxing by accident. That same criticism you have for them is evidence enough of how much more you expect out of them than the others. You’re going about it looking at the wrong way. Every fight is a risk for the king of the hill. They are the ones risking everything. They are the ones bringing the people, the money, their name. They’re the ones who have all pressure every single time they go under the lights. They earned it by merit. If the others could, they would. But they cant and have not and thats is why the select few who talk the talk and walk the walk call the shots. You dont ask for it in boxing, you take it and earn it if you want to be the man A lot of being the Mega A-side though doesn't have to do with being the best fighter...it is just a combination of marketing, luck, promotional skills etc. Yes they both were/are great fighters as well...but again, when you have all those advantages in your favor, it's not really risk-taking, it is risk limiting...best name possible with the lowest risk..and the kicker for Floyd and Canelo is they will get every fight that goes 12 in their favor, or at worst a draw, in Vegas. Taking risks would be fighting those guys in a neutral environment on even terms...but of course they won't do that because it would be dumb...but it doesn't mean that they are taking big risks now either.

They fight all of their fights in their (adopted) hometown of Vegas...they are mega A-sides, who will know which fighters they can at least go 12 rounds with and not get KOed, and can control other terms such as weight/rehydration clauses if needed. They know that all they have to do is go 12 rounds in Vegas with anyone, and they will get the win, or at worst a draw, if it is at all close. I know some will take that as me hating on them, but I'm really not...they are both great fighters and 2 of the best of the last couple decades in my opinion. But neither really took a tremendous amount of risky fights...and as the mega A-side, you don't really need to, and quite frankly, shouldn't...as doing so is kind of stupid money-wise. But taking risks...would be Floyd fighting Pac in the Phillipines or Canelo fighting UK guys in the UK or GGG in Kazakstan...obviously they don't need to do that, and the money is better in Vegas...no one is arguing that. But it is just as obvious that what they did/are doing for most of their careers would not be defined as taking risks. Taking on your opponent in his backyard or neutral, especially if it is 'the' opponent that everyone wants to see at that time, is taking a risk...Fury vs Wlad, Fury vs Wilder...Usyk vs everyone...Ali vs Frazier...Ali vs Foreman. Sell the Canelo-BJS fight as Canelo fighting yet another good or great fighter in his career...but also let's be real that once again he will have almost every advantage in his favor, all he has to do is go 12 and be a little competitive and he will win, and that even the opponent isn't necessarily in fine form/past due/will be hindered with weight issues etc. I know this post will get some agitated but that's not the point...it's just tiresome seeing people on a real boxing forum trying to say those types of fights are risk-taking when what they are is risk-limiting and money-gathering. In boxing all it takes is one punch. Look at how Mosley landed on floyd or how cottos brother did canelo when he was green you just never know man. Every fight there is some risk and yes they have all the cards piled on their side but you never know how that one punch can affect you.

yep, they both should have just fought a bunch of mandatory defenses and then they would be great right?

Ha ha, floyd has never been known to take risks. One or two calculated risks over course of career maybe but on the whole no. Mr cautious more like it

Thanks for the reply...and except for the part I bolded at the end of your reply...I think we are pretty much saying the same things. That they are smart for doing what they are doing...and they have more or less earned it or deserve it...but also what does 'earn' or 'deserve' even mean anyway...but they are in the A-side position and playing that role well. Just don't try and really sell it as taking risks...because it isn't...often times taking risks and making the most money don't really line up, as we both pointed out. And I don't really dislike either Floyd or Canelo...they are great fighters and prove it every time out...but seeing the 'he is taking so much risk' stuff all the time is just nauseating man. I am just honestly surprised that on a real boxing forum people really try and sell it as those guys taking big risks in fights...that is not to say they take no risk, or that they have never taken a big risk in a fight. But 9/10 of their fights, certainly for Canelo and definitely for Floyd in his Money May days...were basically like 90% in their favor, after you factor in opponent selection, venue, weight etc. Could say the same thing about AJ with his fights if you want to..same applies to him really. The problem is that you say you admit theyre great but you dont realize that in Floyd’s case, he was favored 100% of the time against anyone at WW. Canelo fought someone he wasnt favoured against twice in GGG and then fought the number 3 guy in his division. Point is they’re *always* favoured unless they go almost irrationally out of the way to not be by going completely out of their divisions. There isn’t a fighter at 154 who was favored against Canelo pre GGG. Post GGG and Jacobs at 160 he’s RIGHTFULLY a heavy favorite against every fighter. You never become the top earner in boxing by accident. That same criticism you have for them is evidence enough of how much more you expect out of them than the others. You’re going about it looking at the wrong way. Every fight is a risk for the king of the hill. They are the ones risking everything. They are the ones bringing the people, the money, their name. They’re the ones who have all pressure every single time they go under the lights. They earned it by merit. If the others could, they would. But they cant and have not and thats is why the select few who talk the talk and walk the walk call the shots. You dont ask for it in boxing, you take it and earn it if you want to be the man

We are in the network exclusive deal era my friend. Floyd, Canelo, ODH, Manny, GGG, Tyson, Cotto, etc don't get paid to fight they get paid to win and perform. The networks aren't concerned with quality of opponent as much as they are ratings/ppv sales/views. Hell Floyd and Canelo, if you think about it, are more like a Vegas show then pro fighters. They fight 2x a year and they are responsible for making Las Vegas the 2 biggest paydays of the year. Vegas wants those 2 paydays every year. I understand your point but this isn't 1980 when NBC, ABC and CBS had to bid on fights so they paid more for the best fights. There is also plenty of money to be made outside of the US. SO if you have an AJ, you can monetize him against bums just like you can against the best guys. I don't think the fighters are to blame. IMO, if Canelo and Floyd were in the 1980's era and got paid more to fight better guys, they'd fight better guys all the time. Gotta spread some around before I hit you up again man. Solid post. I've been coming round to the conclusion that the whole Vegas Superstar model of boxing is actually one of the biggest problems it's facing. It's great for Vegas - they don't like taking chances with their money and just want to make sure the millions roll in on schedule, great for the latest annointed, and the lucky few who get chosen as opponents but for the sport as a whole the Vegas Show is basically a fkn huge distortion.. throws everything else out of wack. Dudes ain't gonna fight each other or anyone risky when an L is gonna put em out of the running for a payday, titles, defenses, all of it stops matter ing when an elite few can pick the fights they want when they want irrespective of oversight or sanction.. IDK it is what it is, and maybe it was always that way to a degree, but for me personally I start to lose interest when it becomes just about the show, the superstars whether that's the Floyd show, the Canelo show or even, yes, the Big Drama Show. I find the drama in watching the younger guys with it all in front of em and the knowledge that it's all on the line every time than established dudes who already made their millions picking the fights that suit em, even when those are solid fights. Meh, maybe that's just me though.

Found this great Mannix article on the early days with Floyd and TR and Bruce Trampler matchmaking... https://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/27/top-rank-1996-olympics-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-bruce-trampler Gives a wholy different picture of Floyd from the Money May persona we came to know in his later career, but then I suspect that may be just a kinda part of life... as young men we're driven foremost by our egos and vanity and things like fame and glory are at the front of our minds... then we start to get older, start to figure out how the world works, we maybe take on a little cynicism. And for a boxer, later still, maybe in your 30s with the end of your career closing in you're gonna be thinking about securing the futurespecially if you ain't one of the blessed few like Floyd, Oscar or Canelo, who's already made enough for 5 lifetimes. I mean, the risk reward equation probably looks quite different to someone who already has generational wealth to someone whose career could well stall into oblivion on low paid undercards with an L. Good find and post Koba!

Me thinking? Sorry what was I thinking

We are in the network exclusive deal era my friend. Floyd, Canelo, ODH, Manny, GGG, Tyson, Cotto, etc don't get paid to fight they get paid to win and perform. The networks aren't concerned with quality of opponent as much as they are ratings/ppv sales/views. Hell Floyd and Canelo, if you think about it, are more like a Vegas show then pro fighters. They fight 2x a year and they are responsible for making Las Vegas the 2 biggest paydays of the year. Vegas wants those 2 paydays every year. I understand your point but this isn't 1980 when NBC, ABC and CBS had to bid on fights so they paid more for the best fights. There is also plenty of money to be made outside of the US. SO if you have an AJ, you can monetize him against bums just like you can against the best guys. I don't think the fighters are to blame. IMO, if Canelo and Floyd were in the 1980's era and got paid more to fight better guys, they'd fight better guys all the time. Don't listen to this bogus, tap dancing, wannabe network exec, and don't try to lump all those other guys in with what Floyd was doing. Floyd was literally waiting to fight the best guys after they have been raked through the coals, and never fought guys who were a style mismatch. Floyd was just good at hyping up the fight and the opponent regardless of how much of a paper champ he was. He was even better at staying away from guys who presented too much of a risk style wise. Oscar moved up to ww from lightweight same as Floyd did, and was fighting guys like Quartey and Tito in their prime. Oba Carr, prime Shane Mosley. A slightly past prime Pernell Whitaker who never as much as took two flush shots back to back. We don't know how good we had it when Oscar was fighting. Bernard Hopkins was a total style mismatch and Oscar moved up to 160 and fought him, and if that wasn't enough, Oscar exited boxing fighting a prime Manny Pac. Floyd wouldn't even entertain GGG's willingness to come down to 154 for a fight, and the Floyd Boys were crying that he was too small, despite being a beltholder @ 154. Sitting there talking mad smack that GGG was straight up and down with no special effects. Yeah right. Then he exited boxing fighting a totally washed bum in Andre Berto. The risk/reward factor was pretty balanced with Oscar, what happened with Floyd. Floyd has been low to no risk since he fought Marquez. People still pay to see the best to fight the best don't let the excuses fool you.

IDK, what if Canelo never fought GGG? Fans would say he never risked anything, ducked him. It's obvious that there is corruption in boxing, and judges turned in scandalous scorecards, but there was always that risk that GGG could have stopped him inside the distance, or that Canelo suffers a debilitating injury that stops the fight. Now that he has a guaranteed contract, he can cherry-pick the remainder of his fights. If he doesn't like his mandatory, just dump the title and he still earns $36M+. He is the shot-caller now, so he can demand weight limits, re-hydration clauses, gloves, ring size, referee, etc. Same way Floyd had his guardian angels judging and reffing fights, Canelo will be extended the same privilege. I agree that facing GGG especially was still somewhat of a risk for Canelo...I just don't think it was as big of one as some make it out to be...I picked GGG to stop Canelo in fight 1, largely because I didn't think Canelo could or would be able to employ the same gameplan Jacobs did vs GGG...but he was able to pull it off and lasted 12 rounds...I don't think he really came to fight though, and I think he knew after watching the Jacobs fight that he could do similar and at least go 12. Fair play to Canelo in fight 2, he came to fight but still lost imho...but he also had the experience of fight 1 under his belt, so knew what to expect vs GGG more than most would. So yeah I do give Canelo credit for facing GGG, though I do feel he waited until he knew he could go 12.

I do think Floyd was a bit less protected at the lower weights...and to that end he was in more risky fights...even with all of his fights being 'at home' at the lower weights, his work there imo was very impressive. To compete (well) as high as he and Pac did weight wise, is still pretty crazy to me. Found this great Mannix article on the early days with Floyd and TR and Bruce Trampler matchmaking... In the early days, Floyd always wanted fights. “He had a fire and passion for his trade,” says duBoef. In January of 1997, duBoef recalls a phone call from Mayweather. He had just stopped Jerry Cooper and was itching to return. The problem: Top Rank didn’t have much for him. The company had a show in Chula Vista, Calif. in February but barely had $2,000 to pay him. Mayweather didn’t care. He took the fight and stopped Edgar Ayala in the second round. “That taught me a lot about him,” says duBoef. “Inherently, he’s a fighter. He just loved it. He loved to train and he loved being in the ring.” https://www.si.com/boxing/2015/04/27/top-rank-1996-olympics-floyd-mayweather-manny-pacquiao-bruce-trampler Gives a wholy different picture of Floyd from the Money May persona we came to know in his later career, but then I suspect that may be just a kinda part of life... as young men we're driven foremost by our egos and vanity and things like fame and glory are at the front of our minds... then we start to get older, start to figure out how the world works, we maybe take on a little cynicism. And for a boxer, later still, maybe in your 30s with the end of your career closing in you're gonna be thinking about securing the futurespecially if you ain't one of the blessed few like Floyd, Oscar or Canelo, who's already made enough for 5 lifetimes. I mean, the risk reward equation probably looks quite different to someone who already has generational wealth to someone whose career could well stall into oblivion on low paid undercards with an L.

Nobody cares about that. Fury stopped Wilder in Vegas. Why wouldn’t BJS want to do that? You haven’t learned the concept of A-side. If Canelo wants to fight in Vegas for his fans which made $17mil gate in 2019, why would he go to the UK for the B-side for this fictional “risk theory.” You keep getting sonned, shun! You keep thinking that maximizing revenue = taking risks...and it doesn't...they are basically mutually exclusive in today's boxing. Not saying Canelo sucks either...he is better pfp than Wilder so is unlikely to get stopped by anyone at 168 or below..especially as he will put in weight clauses if needed...and no one is going to outweigh him by 40 pounds like Fury did with Wilder.

No. We base P4P with resume and risk taking. That’s not “anyone” or everyone OK and only an over the top Canelo fan would really say that the fights he is taking, are risk taking fights. They are very calculated fights...fight BJS in the UK if he wants to get credit for taking risks.

We are in the network exclusive deal era my friend. Floyd, Canelo, ODH, Manny, GGG, Tyson, Cotto, etc don't get paid to fight they get paid to win and perform. The networks aren't concerned with quality of opponent as much as they are ratings/ppv sales/views. Hell Floyd and Canelo, if you think about it, are more like a Vegas show then pro fighters. They fight 2x a year and they are responsible for making Las Vegas the 2 biggest paydays of the year. Vegas wants those 2 paydays every year. I understand your point but this isn't 1980 when NBC, ABC and CBS had to bid on fights so they paid more for the best fights. There is also plenty of money to be made outside of the US. SO if you have an AJ, you can monetize him against bums just like you can against the best guys. I don't think the fighters are to blame. IMO, if Canelo and Floyd were in the 1980's era and got paid more to fight better guys, they'd fight better guys all the time. I hear ya man...I don't think we are really disagreeing. In my mind I don't really hate on Canelo or Floyd...they are both great fighters..I haven't seen all of Floyd's fights (Maidana fights/ODLH) but I felt he beat Pac 8-4 easy and JLC was 7-5 to Floyd or 6-6. Canelo has a couple losses imo to GGG but I felt he beat Lara 7-5 and Jacobs 7-5...he and Floyd are definitely great fighters and are just playing the role in which they find themselves. As you pretty much said, it would be really stupid for them to face a tougher fight for maybe less money...I just get a little tired of the current Canelo fan posts talking about how much risk he is taking. How much risk is it really when you know you will go 12 rounds, and if you do, you know you are going to win. I agree about AJ as well...he is another example...imho he didn't want the Wilder fight for the longest time because he knew how risky it was and how it could very likely derail his gravy train...not to mention he was probably a little scared as well. I view AJ's 'run' similarly...they are lining up solid enough names but there isn't a ton of risk really there for AJ...and for good reason...he lost to a 30-1 underdog and is not in the same league as Canelo or Floyd as far as pfp quality.

He ducked Ward. GGG was already building HBO noise since 2011 that they were curious for a Ward matchup given their backgrounds. That all predates Canelo Alvarez. GGG is nothing without Canelo, and as a boxing fan who cares if Canelo makes significantly more than GGG or GGGs fans using money as an excuse to not pursue ATG themes. If GGG beat BJS in Kazakhstan for Undisputed it would have boosted Gennadiy’s value with A side. All Middleweights would have to see GGG if they wanted a belt, including Canelo. Unless Canelo would’ve skipped 160 to 168. That didn’t happen because GGG knew who his master was. GGG never took risks. I like to deal with facts or likely scenarios...this is from Ward in 2013: "As for me and Golovkin, look at my body of work. I'll fight anyone out there. But look at his body of work and look at mine. There is no comparison. I fought the last three years with no break. I've been in grind mode. Let him build up his resume, get a body of work first, then we can talk." https://www.si.com/mma/2013/01/18/gennady-golovkin As for GGG taking risks...yeah he could have taken more, this is true...you could say that about just about anyone.

Re the GGG fights for Canelo...is it really a risk to take those fights when you know you can/will probably go 12...and once you go 12 you will be given the W if at all possible, and at worst you have a draw. And you make twice as much for those fights as your other fights...similar with Kovalev...he knew he could go 12 with Kov so the pressure was off...and as we saw the cards at the time of stoppage, that fight was in the bag regardless as well. Similar story with Jacobs...not saying there is NO risk...but certainly the risk was much reduced. IDK, what if Canelo never fought GGG? Fans would say he never risked anything, ducked him. It's obvious that there is corruption in boxing, and judges turned in scandalous scorecards, but there was always that risk that GGG could have stopped him inside the distance, or that Canelo suffers a debilitating injury that stops the fight. Now that he has a guaranteed contract, he can cherry-pick the remainder of his fights. If he doesn't like his mandatory, just dump the title and he still earns $36M+. He is the shot-caller now, so he can demand weight limits, re-hydration clauses, gloves, ring size, referee, etc. Same way Floyd had his guardian angels judging and reffing fights, Canelo will be extended the same privilege.