Who was the best English fighter of all time?

Prince Naseem.

Okay. I'll explain. The reason people always correct the nationality e.g "he's Welsh/Scottish/Irish" etc. That is because smaller countries don't like England taking the "credit". Patriotic pride means a Scottish, Welsh or Irishman doesn't like having "their" fighter called English and England taking the credit for producing him. Secondly. In my opinion, and it seems to be the general consensus, parentage trumps place of birth. So for example Calzaghe is absolutely not English because his father was Italian and his mother is Welsh. And he has lived in Wales almost all his life. Parentage > Time Spent in Country > Place of Birth

canelo alvarez.

Naseem, lol at people saying Calzaghe

Lennox Lewis

:lol1: Well **** I didn't know Joe was from London and so that line got all ****ed up. :lol1: It was meant to reflect James Burke. Burke was meant to serve as the extreme difficult to understand case while Joe was meant to be the easy to understand case....because I thought his Welsh ass was actually born in Wales to Welsh parents. Okay, so let's just focus on Joe then. Joe's born in London, but he's Welsh because he was raised in Wales. Bob Fitzsimmons is born in Cornwall and raised in New Zealand, but he's more English than Joe? Bob's dad was Irish. Joe's Italian. Joe's born in an English city, Bob's born in a Cornish city. Why is it outlandish to question Bob's Englishness? Correct me if I'm wrong here but a Cornish person is English in nationality alone, they are their own ethnic group, right? So the only thing actually connecting Bob to England is him having been born in that nation. Not to English parents, not in an English cultural center, but he was born there and so he is English while Joe, also born in England, is not, AND, I'm a racist dick for questioning this logic and pointing out if you be too hard nose you can strip every modern English HW champ of their Englishness? Is there an official cut off date? Three years old isn't old enough to be English, ten and twelve are definitely English though, and I'm the racist here... Ha ha. This kinda **** is exactly why I reckon you gotta go with a person's right to self identify... there's simply no hard and fast rules. I listed Bob but he left the UK when he was about 10 or something I think so there's a good case for calling him a Kiwi or an Aussie though I can't find any info on how he described himself, Joe self identifies as a proud Welshman even if he was born in London and I can't see that anyone's got the right to claim different.

For me, Lennox Lewis & then Duke Mckenzie, British, European and multiple weight world champion, extremely technical fighter and one of our best boxers that I watched during the late 80s and early 90s

Probably Lennox Lewis IMO. I know his nationality is murky but he says he's English and as an Englishman I'm happy to acknowledge that. I see him as English. He talks English, his accent sounds more British more than anything else to me, he was born in England and he says he considers himself British. So I would say he’s from there. Sure he represented Canada in the amateurs and Olympics but if someone wants to claim the country they were born in as the country they are from, then nobody can tell them they’re not from there. Because they literally are from there.

The Welsh, Scotts and Irish are different from the children of immigrants like AJ in 2 ways: First, they are indigenous Brits, genetically the same as the English. If an Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman and Irish man walked into a bar, nobody would know which one was which till they opened their mouths and started talking! Second, they were born and/or raised up in countries which are not England, and naturally self-identify as belonging to those countries, rather than to England. I have direct personal experience of how this works. I was born and raised in England, but my ancestry is primarily Scottish/Ulster Irish. My parents relocated to Scotland when I was 19 years old. I stayed behind in England, along with one of my brothers. My brother married a lady from Africa and I have 3 dark skinned nieces who identify as English. I also have 3 sisters who grew up in Scotland - the youngest was born there - and identify as Scottish. Myself, I identify as British first, English second. I get you, man, not trying to be aggro, just saying that Englishness is hard to pin down, a point with which you seem to concur. Certainly, there are older people who were born and sometimes even raised in colonial outposts like Kenya, and there is no doubt about their Englishness, for example. On Calzaghe. From my point of view, I see him as Welsh... and British? sure. But English? Never. I believe Joe's mum is Welsh.. Joe is surely more Welsh than anything else? You say you identify as British first, English second. In that case, I'd suggest you are not English, not really. The Union is something we tolerate only.. On genetics and Irishness, Scottishness, etc. You surely know that these nationalities descended from the Celts, and so even if there is genetic similarity, there are big divides in culture. For instance, proper Cornish people think of themselves as independent from the rest of the UK.. EDIT: Aha, I see you address the question of Cornishness in the post above! A quintessentially English boxer would be Our 'Enry? Happy to be shown otherwise. As I say, I would never describe Lennox as English

:lol1: Well **** I didn't know Joe was from London and so that line got all ****ed up. :lol1: It was meant to reflect James Burke. Burke was meant to serve as the extreme difficult to understand case while Joe was meant to be the easy to understand case....because I thought his Welsh ass was actually born in Wales to Welsh parents. Okay, so let's just focus on Joe then. Joe's born in London, but he's Welsh because he was raised in Wales. Bob Fitzsimmons is born in Cornwall and raised in New Zealand, but he's more English than Joe? Bob's dad was Irish. Joe's Italian. Joe's born in an English city, Bob's born in a Cornish city. Why is it outlandish to question Bob's Englishness? Correct me if I'm wrong here but a Cornish person is English in nationality alone, they are their own ethnic group, right? So the only thing actually connecting Bob to England is him having been born in that nation. Not to English parents, not in an English cultural center, but he was born there and so he is English while Joe, also born in England, is not, AND, I'm a racist dick for questioning this logic and pointing out if you be too hard nose you can strip every modern English HW champ of their Englishness? Is there an official cut off date? Three years old isn't old enough to be English, ten and twelve are definitely English though, and I'm the racist here... The Cornish have their own language, and many of them identify as Cornish, rather than English. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornish_nationalism "In 936 Athelstan fixed Cornwall's eastern boundary at the Tamar. The Italian scholar Polydore Vergil in his famous Anglica Historia, published in 1535, wrote that: 'the whole Countrie of Britain ...is divided into iiii partes; whereof the one is inhabited of Englishmen, the other of Scottes, the third of Wallshemen, and the fowerthe of Cornishe people, which all differ emonge them selves, either in tongue, ...in manners, or ells in lawes and ordinaunces." "Writing in 1616, Arthur Hopton stated: 'England is ...divided into 3 great Provinces, or Countries ...every of them speaking a several and different language, as English, Welsh and Cornish.'" While on holiday in Scotland, I personally witnessed a Cornish fisherman punch a Scotsman in the mouth for insisting that he - the Cornishman - was English. I don't know what nationality Bob Fitzsimmons ascribed to himself, but I reckon most people who had dealings with him would have been happy to go along with whatever he said ... :lol1:

LMAO. Just say you don't want to give Josh the credit he deserves. No other English boxer has achieved what he achieved, apart from Lennox Lewis who achieved more. Fury would've had a shout if he had defended the titles he won and had a better resume. Apart from Wlad, Fury hasn't beaten anyone. Regardless, Benn will always be greater than Eubank Sr. Warrington is also climbing up the ladder. Froch was just slightly above average in a very weak era. And both Bruno and Haye didn't beat anyone. Tbh i just didn't think too much outside of Josh. But u had a good list. Calm down Jack

LMAO. Who did Eubank Snr beat apart from Benn? I'd even rank Benn higher than Eubank Snr because he went on to beat bigger and better boxers. Right now, it's: Lennox Lewis Josh Fury Benn Eubank Sr Froch Warrington Bruno Haye I will admit.... I kinda winged my second pick lol. Why i said probably.

Hard to say. Let's be real, if a fighter comes from their 2nd/3rd world country to be trained by an All-American team... Shouldn't they be considered American? Lennox Lewis is an ATG, but his success came at the hands of the US, not LB (Lesser Britain)

I didn't mean to offend. :lol1: To be honest there's a big side of me that just wants to knuckle down and take a what the **** you crying over approach but I'll abstain that a while and attempt amicable explanation Maybe if you guys did not constantly correct us about who is and isn't English we'd easily lump you all in without worrying about it. Maybe the ONLY reason an American cares to distinguish British from English from UK Citizen is because you...guys.... can not let some **** like calling Slappy Joe an Englishman slide. If you did then, maybe, I wouldn't question how English a man is because it isn't natural for me to. that's why I explained in America it's not normal to call people none Americans despite being countrymen. In England it ****ing is. You know damn well you don't see northern irish as english but you do see them as citizens of the UK, yeah? Okay then, why are you so offended? I did not learn Lennox was Canadian from US TV, US fans, or anything to do with the USA. I lived most my life thinking he was British and not knowing the difference between British and English. Then I signed up for a boxing forum and spoke to English boxing fans. Period my dude, that is what happened. Ignorant? Don't know? Sure....kinda the point of the whole post isn't it? I was surprised when I was told Lennox ain't English. I was surprised to hear Bob is Australian and that makes him less English. Coming in from just TV info, local fan opinions, to the internet in mid 2000s there's a ton of things I did not know that are basic as ****, but, when you have Englishmen correcting you on Englishness and you are not English the **** else you going to do but adopt their explanations? So, again, I did not mean to offend. I feel like you've jumped the gun and right now I'm restraining reacting to someone who is actually offended because I don't think of you as a massive ***** and that is a ***** ass reaction so I've got to chop that up to misunderstanding, for the moment. Correction's fine, I'm asking for it. Being offended though or angry with me .....ehhh just really want to make fun of the softness of that. I'll leave you with this: Remember, I am American, fat dumb yank, whatevs brah, just try to share perspective for a damn second In the late 1830s James Burke was to challenge for the HW crown in England. He's from London. The champion at the time didn't want to face Burke because Burke was a scary dude and the champ was a guy who bought his title and fixed fights and could not fix Burke. So he retired and let Burke fight another guy for the vacant. When Burke won the champion took back his retirement and refused to award Burke saying literally this man from London was did not posses enough Englishness. BangEm has me on ignore so I can't quote but he did post this in the first page of this thread - When did Calzaghe become English? He's Welsh and he's overrated. Where is the mother ****ing line my dude and how the **** am I meant to guess it? I'm not offended, I just don't want to let you get away with projecting your own very American obsession with racial and ethnic classification onto the English, which is something that a lot of American members try to do at this site. To answer your question about Calzaghe .. Joe's father was Italian and he was born in London, England. He became Welsh after his parents relocated to Wales when he was a nipper.

Lennox Lewis is the obvious choice followed probably by Eubank SR

When did Calzaghe become English? He's Welsh and he's overrated. Facts.....

I'm just gonna wade in here and say, as an Englishman, that being English (or Scottish, or Welsh, or Irish) is quite a distinct thing from being British. I should say, for example, that whilst AJ is British, he's not English in my eyes. Same goes for Lennox. And someone like Calzaghe, he belongs to Wales, he's got fuk-all to do with England. So, there is some merit to what Marchegiano is saying, since OP asked about English fighters, not British ones. The Welsh, Scotts and Irish are different from the children of immigrants like AJ in 2 ways: First, they are indigenous Brits, genetically the same as the English. If an Englishman, Scotsman, Welshman and Irish man walked into a bar, nobody would know which one was which till they opened their mouths and started talking! Second, they were born and/or raised up in countries which are not England, and naturally self-identify as belonging to those countries, rather than to England. I have direct personal experience of how this works. I was born and raised in England, but my ancestry is primarily Scottish/Ulster Irish. My parents relocated to Scotland when I was 19 years old. I stayed behind in England, along with one of my brothers. My brother married a lady from Africa and I have 3 dark skinned nieces who identify as English. I also have 3 sisters who grew up in Scotland - the youngest was born there - and identify as Scottish. Myself, I identify as British first, English second.

This is an absurd comment, posted by someone who knows absolutely nothing about England and the people who live here. Furthermore, if you apply the same absurdly narrow definition of nationality to Americans as you do to the English, you would have to conclude that there has never been a single great American HW, because Dempsey had only a small percentage of Native American blood. I'm just gonna wade in here and say, as an Englishman, that being English (or Scottish, or Welsh, or Irish) is quite a distinct thing from being British. I should say, for example, that whilst AJ is British, he's not English in my eyes. Same goes for Lennox. And someone like Calzaghe, he belongs to Wales, he's got fuk-all to do with England. So, there is some merit to what Marchegiano is saying, since OP asked about English fighters, not British ones.

I would say Lennox Lewis for now. Fury or AJ may one day take that stop.

... Some would say Bob Fitzsimmons... some would say Jimmy Wilde... or even Lennox Lewis... Jimmy Wilde was Welsh, which illustrates why it is so difficult to rate and classify British fighters by nationality.