It's incredible how quickly boxing changes.

Yea, they all did pretty good, even though you’re going with the absolute highest reported numbers. I'm going with the same numbers for all of the fights. The numbers widely reported by the most respected outlets. Pacquiao is a proven draw...he’s been a Ppv fighter. And now Wilder and Spence are proven draws as well and have been turned into PPV fighters. Now they’re talking about tank vs Santa Cruz on ppv Tank is the next guy they want to try to turn into a PPV fighter. We'll see if it works. It's a process. Remember, GGG and Andre Ward were doing like 150k buys on HBO PPV. Tank has a big following, is a young rising undefeated star with world titles in two weight classes. Of course they're going to see if he can draw on PPV. which is why pbc is putting any decent matchup on ppv That's not accurate at all. There were plenty of big fights on Fox and Showtime last year. Just because the four biggest fights of the year are going on PPV doesn't mean there aren't good fights. PBC has a deep roster and most of the top guys are fighting twice a year.

Who is stopping you from discussing it? I made a thread about power being gained and lost. DAZN hasn't gained or lost power. There are already a hundred threads about DAZN. If you think there should be more, make them. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Most months they don't have a fight people are willing to spend $20 to see, which is why most boxing fans don't subscribe. PBC has stuck with their free TV model. There hasn't been a bait and switch. For the first time in decades, world championship boxing is available for free on a regular basis. PBC never said they wouldn't do PPVs. In fact, they said the exact opposite. PBC's game plan was to use free TV to create a new generation of stars and then cash in on PPV. That's exactly what they've done. Every PBC PPV so far has done hundreds of thousands of buys. Every PBC PPV so far would definitely have been a PPV in the HBO/Showtime heyday. WILDER vs. FURY did 325,000 buys, more than CANELO vs. LARA, CANELO vs. SMITH, LEWIS vs. GOLOTA, JONES vs. TARVER, HAMED vs. BARRERA, COTTO vs. MARTINEZ, etc. PACQUIAO vs. BRONER did 400,000 buys, more than LEWIS vs. GRANT, GATTI vs. MAYWEATHER, MAYWEATHER vs. JUDAH, etc. SPENCE vs. GARCIA did 375,000 buys, more than CANELO vs. ANGULO, JONES vs. TARVER II, PACQUIAO vs. MORALES II, PACQUIAO vs. BARRERA III, etc. PACQUIAO vs. THURMAN did 500,000 buys, more than TYSON vs. GOLOTA, RAHMAN vs. LEWIS II, MARTINEZ vs. CHAVEZ JR, TARVER vs. JONES III, etc. SPENCE vs. PORTER did 350,000 buys, more than MAYWEATHER vs. BALDOMIR, DE LA HOYA vs. RUELAS, PACQUIAO vs. MORALES, TONEY vs. JONES, etc. WILDER vs. ORTIZ II did 275,000 buys, more than TYSON vs. McBRIDE, CALZAGHE vs. JONES, PACQUIAO vs. DIAZ, GGG vs. JACOBS, KOVALEV vs. WARD, MERCER vs. MORRISON, HOLYFIELD vs. RUIZ II, etc. Yea, they all did pretty good, even though you’re going with the absolute highest reported numbers. Pacquiao is a proven draw...he’s been a Ppv fighter. Some of those other matchups didn’t feel ppv worthy. Now they’re talking about tank vs Santa Cruz on ppv lol. But like you said, people want to watch the fights or they don’t, which is why pbc is putting any decent matchup on ppv and forcing people’s hand to buy. Most of the stuff on free tv is below par considering the stable they have. They absolutely pulled the bait and switch...their mantra was “free boxing on network cable”, until hbo was out of the picture, then they ramped up the ppvs. Fox Ppv? Who tf wants that? It’s fine if you don’t want to talk about dazn, but look at all the fights they had last year...if you’re a fan of the sport without access to it, you’re missing out. For the record, I’m not even a subscriber. I watch all dazn fights at a friends place...he primarily has it for football and soccer, but likes boxing too.

Dazn is relevant when discussing the changing landscape of boxing Who is stopping you from discussing it? I made a thread about power being gained and lost. DAZN hasn't gained or lost power. There are already a hundred threads about DAZN. If you think there should be more, make them. a true fan of the sport, it’s a must have and the best deal going. I'm glad you're enjoying it. Most months they don't have a fight people are willing to spend $20 to see, which is why most boxing fans don't subscribe. If pbc had stuck to the free tv model, instead of pulling the old bait and switch with the ppvs, then it would be great. PBC has stuck with their free TV model. There hasn't been a bait and switch. For the first time in decades, world championship boxing is available for free on a regular basis. PBC never said they wouldn't do PPVs. In fact, they said the exact opposite. PBC's game plan was to use free TV to create a new generation of stars and then cash in on PPV. That's exactly what they've done. Would all of the pbc ppvs been so on hbo or showtime during the ppv heyday? Every PBC PPV so far has done hundreds of thousands of buys. Every PBC PPV so far would definitely have been a PPV in the HBO/Showtime heyday. WILDER vs. FURY did 325,000 buys, more than CANELO vs. LARA, CANELO vs. SMITH, LEWIS vs. GOLOTA, JONES vs. TARVER, HAMED vs. BARRERA, COTTO vs. MARTINEZ, etc. PACQUIAO vs. BRONER did 400,000 buys, more than LEWIS vs. GRANT, GATTI vs. MAYWEATHER, MAYWEATHER vs. JUDAH, etc. SPENCE vs. GARCIA did 375,000 buys, more than CANELO vs. ANGULO, JONES vs. TARVER II, PACQUIAO vs. MORALES II, PACQUIAO vs. BARRERA III, etc. PACQUIAO vs. THURMAN did 500,000 buys, more than TYSON vs. GOLOTA, RAHMAN vs. LEWIS II, MARTINEZ vs. CHAVEZ JR, TARVER vs. JONES III, etc. SPENCE vs. PORTER did 350,000 buys, more than MAYWEATHER vs. BALDOMIR, DE LA HOYA vs. RUELAS, PACQUIAO vs. MORALES, TONEY vs. JONES, etc. WILDER vs. ORTIZ II did 275,000 buys, more than TYSON vs. McBRIDE, CALZAGHE vs. JONES, PACQUIAO vs. DIAZ, GGG vs. JACOBS, KOVALEV vs. WARD, MERCER vs. MORRISON, HOLYFIELD vs. RUIZ II, etc.

According to who? DAZN? And just fine by what metric? If the company is losing tons of money over all, with no end in sight, and no hope to turn things around, does it really matter if DAZN has the NBA rights in Japan? That's not going to be enough for the company to survive. My thread is about how quickly power can be gained and lost in boxing. Out of boxing's three newest players (Fox, ESPN and DAZN), DAZN has, by far, the least amount of power. I know on internet forums, everyone is obsessed with DAZN, but out in the real world, it's an out of sight, out of mind, irrelevant service, except for two nights a year when Canelo fights (and the hype when he fights is WAY WAY less than his HBO/Showtime days). Nothing would stop GGG or Joshua from doing a low level Integrated Sports PPV or something like that. My point is simply is that their recent fights would not have been fights HBO or Showtime would have put on PPV during the heyday of PPV. Dazn is relevant when discussing the changing landscape of boxing...and to a true fan of the sport, it’s a must have and the best deal going. If pbc had stuck to the free tv model, instead of pulling the old bait and switch with the ppvs, then it would be great. Instead we’re getting more ppvs with worse production value and a bunch of commercial filled mediocre fights for free. The sport is more fractured and expensive than it’s ever been. Would all of the pbc ppvs been so on hbo or showtime during the ppv heyday?

Dazn seems to be doing fine around the world... According to who? DAZN? And just fine by what metric? If the company is losing tons of money over all, with no end in sight, and no hope to turn things around, does it really matter if DAZN has the NBA rights in Japan? That's not going to be enough for the company to survive. you started a thread about how much boxing has changed in the last 10-15 years, and neglected to mention arguably the biggest change My thread is about how quickly power can be gained and lost in boxing. Out of boxing's three newest players (Fox, ESPN and DAZN), DAZN has, by far, the least amount of power. I know on internet forums, everyone is obsessed with DAZN, but out in the real world, it's an out of sight, out of mind, irrelevant service, except for two nights a year when Canelo fights (and the hype when he fights is WAY WAY less than his HBO/Showtime days). You can’t say ggg or Joshua wouldn’t be on ppv with hbo out of the boxing business. Saying their fights wouldn’t be on ppv because they were on regular hbo years ago is irrelevant when hbo is no longer in the picture. Nothing would stop GGG or Joshua from doing a low level Integrated Sports PPV or something like that. My point is simply is that their recent fights would not have been fights HBO or Showtime would have put on PPV during the heyday of PPV.

The only thing ground breaking about the business model is that DAZN has no built in way to spread the word about their service. Which is why the service is failing massively. When Showtime launched their standalone app, they had CBS and Showtime to promote it. When ESPN launched their standalone app (ESPN+), they had ABC and ESPN to promote it. DAZN is out of sight out of mind. It'd be one thing if HBO had launched a separate boxing only app and could then use HBO, TBS, TNT and Tru, etc to promote it, (like they do with B/R Live), but with DAZN, they have no mainstream properties to promote their "ground breaking" app. People either want to see a fight or they don't. The price is often irrelevant. Yes, DAZN is cheaper than 5 PPVs, but they don't have 5 fights a year people would have bought on PPV. They barely have 2. Other than Canelo's two most recent fights, DAZN has had exactly *zero* fights that would have been PPVs in the HBO/Showtime days. Joshua's fights wouldn't have been PPVs. GGG's fight wouldn't have been a PPV. GGG flopped on PPV whenever he was the A-side. Dazn seems to be doing fine around the world...the US market isn’t the only measure of success. Either way, you started a thread about how much boxing has changed in the last 10-15 years, and neglected to mention arguably the biggest change...for better or for worse. You can’t say ggg or Joshua wouldn’t be on ppv with hbo out of the boxing business. Saying their fights wouldn’t be on ppv because they were on regular hbo years ago is irrelevant when hbo is no longer in the picture.

There’s nothing ground breaking about entering a business model that’s never been done in the sport? The only thing ground breaking about the business model is that DAZN has no built in way to spread the word about their service. Which is why the service is failing massively. When Showtime launched their standalone app, they had CBS and Showtime to promote it. When ESPN launched their standalone app (ESPN+), they had ABC and ESPN to promote it. DAZN is out of sight out of mind. It'd be one thing if HBO had launched a separate boxing only app and could then use HBO, TBS, TNT and Tru, etc to promote it, (like they do with B/R Live), but with DAZN, they have no mainstream properties to promote their "ground breaking" app. Like I said, it might not last or even help grow the sport, but for the time being it’s cheaper than buying 5 mediocre ppvs. People either want to see a fight or they don't. The price is often irrelevant. Yes, DAZN is cheaper than 5 PPVs, but they don't have 5 fights a year people would have bought on PPV. They barely have 2. You can’t say all those fights were “ppv worthy” going in if you’re going to say no fights on dazn were “ppv worthy”. Other than Canelo's two most recent fights, DAZN has had exactly *zero* fights that would have been PPVs in the HBO/Showtime days. Joshua's fights wouldn't have been PPVs. GGG's fight wouldn't have been a PPV. GGG flopped on PPV whenever he was the A-side.

I'm sorry man, but you're dead wrong on that. Look at what the PBC PPVs are doing. In a 12 month span, PBC did 325,000 buys, 400,000 buys, 375,000 buys, 500,000 buys, 350,000 buys and 275,000 buys. ALL of those fights would have been on PPV in the HBO/Showtime days. HBO put pretty much any fight they thought could do 200k buys on to PPV. HBO boxing went out of business in part because so many of their PPVs flopped and couldn't come anywhere close to 200k buys. They would have been doing BACKFLIPS if they had a one year run of 325, 400, 375, 500, 350 and 275. But it's a reversion to when BOXING WAS MORE POPULAR. Canelo's fights being $20 instead of $75 is ground breaking, but he hasn't had a fight yet for $20 that most people would have found compelling at $75. Canelo vs Jacobs and Canelo vs Kovalev wouldn't have been huge PPV fights. They'd have done respectable numbers because it's Canelo, but nothing like his biggest fights. Showtime has been available as a separate independent app, with live fights, for many years. So there's nothing groundbreaking about DAZN beyond the top PPV fighter agreeing to fight on $20 shows. Which would be a big deal if it forced everyone else to fight on $20 shows, but instead it's just caused $75 PPVs to grow. There’s nothing ground breaking about entering a business model that’s never been done in the sport? Like I said, it might not last or even help grow the sport, but for the time being it’s cheaper than buying 5 mediocre ppvs. As far as those numbers, they are pretty good, if they’re even correct...but some probably overachieved in retrospect. You can’t say all those fights were “ppv worthy” going in if you’re going to say no fights on dazn were “ppv worthy”. There’s no reason some fights on dazn couldn’t have sold as well as some of those relatively weak ppvs. Canelo and Joshua alone are bigger stars than anyone on the pbc roster by a distance.

It was only 10-15 years ago that boxing was largely controlled by Don King, Bob Arum, Dan Goossen, Gary Shaw, Murad Muhammad, Lou Dibella, Leon Margules, none of whom have any power anymore except for Arum. It was only 10-15 years ago that boxing only had three recognized world titles (WBC, WBA, IBF), now it has five (WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO and Super WBA). It was only 10 years ago that HBO ruled the sport with an iron fist and Showtime was a very distant second. Now the biggest fight of 2020 is being distributed by Fox and ESPN. It was only 10 years ago that heavyweights had become completely irrelevant. Now there are three huge stars in Joshua, Wilder and Fury, with interesting contenders like Ruiz, Whyte, and Big Baby. It was only 5 years ago that HBO level boxing was thought to be impossible to bring back to free TV. Now HBO is out of boxing completely and Fox is airing world title fights almost every month. ... your points above have nothing to do with changes in boxing as a sport, per se... ... you only mentioned changes in boxing a business (including the HW division -- back then, the Klit bros were were simply dominating that weight class...)

Don't mind him. He's an idiot. Every real boxing fan knows that the WBA really has 3 belts: Super, Regular, and Gold. Just put him on ignore and call it a day. All of the networks, fighters, managers and promoters recognize both the WBA title and super WBA title as world titles. None of them recognize the gold title as a world title.

Trying to claim people recognise the WBA has having two belts?? Stop smoking stuff buddy. I don't know what sport you're watching, but all of the networks, fighters, managers and promoters recognize the WBA title as well as the super WBA title. In terms of the heavyweights becoming relevant , and actually far more so - boxing in general - that is obviously largely down to the impact of Anthony Joshua and Eddie Hearn. Joshua's impact in the United States has been minimal and has nothing to do with the emergence of Deontay Wilder as the first American heavyweight draw in decades. Also has nothing to do with Fury's star making performance against Klitschko and the ESPN marketing machine promoting his lineal title ad nauseam.

The fighters story and style was fully explained and handed to you on a silver platter each time out. Now that it’s gone I see all the bells and whistles weren’t necessary. Just put on good fights and people will tune in. Fox does a lot of that stuff BEFORE fight night. Face to Face, Countdown, Fight Camp, etc air incessantly on local Fox affiliates, FS1 and FS2 over and over. By the time the actual fight rolls around, Fox's version of those HBO hype packages have already been seen by millions.

J Rock vs Rosario is on FOX, right? Lil BHop vs Corrales as co-main. That'll be a good card. https://www.premierboxingchampions.com/fight-night-january-18-2020

I just wish FOX had Showtime's commentary crew. **** tell me about it man... Lewis, Boom boom mancini, that god awful heidi androl kvnt, and some of those other Fox sports commentators that probably came over from football/basketball, etc. are TERRIBLE Boom boom and his 'OHHHHHH OOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH' every time a punch slightly connects lol

Well if you want to talk about fights that aren’t ppv worthy or wouldn’t have been ppvs, you might as well include almost all ppvs these days. I'm sorry man, but you're dead wrong on that. Look at what the PBC PPVs are doing. In a 12 month span, PBC did 325,000 buys, 400,000 buys, 375,000 buys, 500,000 buys, 350,000 buys and 275,000 buys. ALL of those fights would have been on PPV in the HBO/Showtime days. HBO put pretty much any fight they thought could do 200k buys on to PPV. HBO boxing went out of business in part because so many of their PPVs flopped and couldn't come anywhere close to 200k buys. They would have been doing BACKFLIPS if they had a one year run of 325, 400, 375, 500, 350 and 275. Boxing entering the streaming era is a significant change and ground breaking. Boxing on free cable, while it’s awesome and could be better for the overall health of the sport, is a reversion to the past. But it's a reversion to when BOXING WAS MORE POPULAR. Canelo's fights being $20 instead of $75 is ground breaking, but he hasn't had a fight yet for $20 that most people would have found compelling at $75. Canelo vs Jacobs and Canelo vs Kovalev wouldn't have been huge PPV fights. They'd have done respectable numbers because it's Canelo, but nothing like his biggest fights. Showtime has been available as a separate independent app, with live fights, for many years. So there's nothing groundbreaking about DAZN beyond the top PPV fighter agreeing to fight on $20 shows. Which would be a big deal if it forced everyone else to fight on $20 shows, but instead it's just caused $75 PPVs to grow.

I would disagree that a large portion of the top fights are now on streaming services. It's a much bigger story that so many big fights are on free TV (Fox) and basic cable (ESPN & FS1). That is what is attracting so many new boxing fans and bringing back so many former fans. In the entire existence of DAZN, which fights would have been big PPVs in the old HBO/Showtime era? Canelo vs. Jacobs and Canelo vs. Kovalev. That's it. And neither would have really been that big of a PPV by Canelo standards. Well if you want to talk about fights that aren’t ppv worthy or wouldn’t have been ppvs, you might as well include almost all ppvs these days. Boxing entering the streaming era is a significant change and ground breaking. Boxing on free cable, while it’s awesome and could be better for the overall health of the sport, is a reversion to the past.

Let’s not leave out the fact that a big portion of top fights are now on streaming services. Dazn is the biggest game changer...whether or not they’re successful in the long run, remains to be seen. I would disagree that a large portion of the top fights are now on streaming services. It's a much bigger story that so many big fights are on free TV (Fox) and basic cable (ESPN & FS1). That is what is attracting so many new boxing fans and bringing back so many former fans. In the entire existence of DAZN, which fights would have been big PPVs in the old HBO/Showtime era? Canelo vs. Jacobs and Canelo vs. Kovalev. That's it. And neither would have really been that big of a PPV by Canelo standards.

It was only 10-15 years ago that boxing was largely controlled by Don King, Bob Arum, Dan Goossen, Gary Shaw, Murad Muhammad, Lou Dibella, Leon Margules, none of whom have any power anymore except for Arum. It was only 10-15 years ago that boxing only had three recognized world titles (WBC, WBA, IBF), now it has five (WBC, WBA, IBF, WBO and Super WBA). It was only 10 years ago that HBO ruled the sport with an iron fist and Showtime was a very distant second. Now the biggest fight of 2020 is being distributed by Fox and ESPN. It was only 10 years ago that heavyweights had become completely irrelevant. Now there are three huge stars in Joshua, Wilder and Fury, with interesting contenders like Ruiz, Whyte, and Big Baby. It was only 5 years ago that HBO level boxing was thought to be impossible to bring back to free TV. Now HBO is out of boxing completely and Fox is airing world title fights almost every month. Let’s not leave out the fact that a big portion of top fights are now on streaming services. Dazn is the biggest game changer...whether or not they’re successful in the long run, remains to be seen.

Trying to claim people recognise the WBA has having two belts?? Stop smoking stuff buddy. In terms of the heavyweights becoming relevant , and actually far more so - boxing in general - that is obviously largely down to the impact of Anthony Joshua and Eddie Hearn. I would go further though and say one the key moments to the decade which has improved boxing significantly is Eddie Hearn signing Carl Froch. Imagine if Carl Froch had continued being a largely unknown boxer ? If he didn’t get the Bute fight? If he didn’t fight Groves and start a rivalry which accumulated in a rematch in front of 80k at Wembley? Prior to that match there had been only one fight at Wembley in about 50 years, since then It opened the door to around ten fights in a few years at open stadiums in the UK. Eddie Hearn was laughed at by his own Dad that he could make a matchup that big it would sell out Wembley. At the same time on the undercard was he upcoming Anthony Joshua in about his sixth fight - starting the build up which has helped converted multiple casuals in the UK and across the globe to begin watching boxing. That relationship also encouraged DAZN to jump on board and produce in multiple countries at the back end of the year and arguably have the strongest portfolio of fights of any network during 2019. To bring it back, Carl Froch and Eddie Hearn helped make each other big, make each other successful beyond any expectation at the time. Eddie kind of traded Carl in for a new bigger model in Joshua to turn it to new levels. The amount boxing has flourished in the back end is super and made even the likes of Fury and Wilder much more recognisAble despite many years prior with little support. The UK in particular has grown to the extent the first 4-5 years of the decade had about six fights live on bbc radio , in 2019 it had about double that in the one year alone.

J Rock vs Rosario is on FOX, right? Lil BHop vs Corrales as co-main. That'll be a good card. I just wish FOX had Showtime's commentary crew.