How good was prime Mike Tyson?

I always liked seeing a talented fighter that could fight “long”. I don’t think we see it consistently or effectively that often today, even with the taller fighters. It looks like skill of “Boxing” at its best when u see it though imo. It’s not like there’s a lot of tall ex basket ball players making a transition to boxing, it’s a different animal. I love the jab hook like u mentioned also. I like anything that feels really awkward at first, because u can perfect it as best u can, and it must look awkward to the guy in front of you. I liked Wlads jab hook at times, but I hated his leaping left hook that he loved. He missed it so often. Looked good when it worked but was very rare. He became very nervous of throwing his right in the second half of his career. He used to try and chop a fist down on top of someone’s guard to land a right behind it. Not sure how legal that was. Remember doing it to mercer with effect. Haha so funny I was gonna write iam no wlad fan but his jab check hook was beautiful . I would watch his fights just to see that ish lol . You are correct . At heavyweight there really isnt anyone fighting long and there are a tonne of guys over 6.4 it's crazy to me . If wilder learned how to fight long and listened to lennox back in the day he could have dominated the division instead of fight cans for 30 some fights . It's a shame . I miss Lennox lewis . That is all haha

Iam a big fan of the jab check hook . That's my jam but I cant pull off that body head **** it's not smart for me . I usually had a 4 inch height advantage minimum and I fought long . I have 78" reach, iam just under 6'2 and I fought at 141 . I could bang on the inside if I had to but it rarely did happen . My jab really did what I needed to set up the right hand or left hook . Iam pretty pissed my face broke right when it was getting good and I was competing open but life throws curve balls sometimes . I always liked seeing a talented fighter that could fight “long”. I don’t think we see it consistently or effectively that often today, even with the taller fighters. It looks like skill of “Boxing” at its best when u see it though imo. It’s not like there’s a lot of tall ex basket ball players making a transition to boxing, it’s a different animal. I love the jab hook like u mentioned also. I like anything that feels really awkward at first, because u can perfect it as best u can, and it must look awkward to the guy in front of you. I liked Wlads jab hook at times, but I hated his leaping left hook that he loved. He missed it so often. Looked good when it worked but was very rare. He became very nervous of throwing his right in the second half of his career. He used to try and chop a fist down on top of someone’s guard to land a right behind it. Not sure how legal that was. Remember doing it to mercer with effect.

I'd say prime Tyson vs Chisora now would be a great 50-50 fight.

I can whoop Super Macho Man pretty easily but never lasted a round with Mike so I'd say, REALLY good.

Look at mike as an early teen, he was a huge muscular kid... His prime at 220 ish he was clean as a whistle I’m an ex bodybuilder I think I have a good eye for it, in some of his later fights post prison he looked a bit juicy to me. Holyfield is the most obvious juicer in boxing, it’s not even worth arguing about anymore, Roy Jones too when he moved up. I remember when Holyfield hired Lee Haney as his strength and conditioning coach. More than likely that’s when his juicing days started. Lol As for Tyson, I recall reading in “Bad Intentions,” by Peter Heller, that the first time he ever touched a weight, at the age of fifteen, he benched 225 ten times. Assuming this is true (and my recollection is accurate), that is a tremendously naturally strong human being. I would agree that Mike was clean before incarceration, but possibly started juicing sometime after.

Look at mike as an early teen, he was a huge muscular kid... His prime at 220 ish he was clean as a whistle I’m an ex bodybuilder I think I have a good eye for it, in some of his later fights post prison he looked a bit juicy to me. Holyfield is the most obvious juicer in boxing, it’s not even worth arguing about anymore, Roy Jones too when he moved up. I remember when Holyfield hired Lee Haney as his strength and conditioning coach. More than likely that’s when his juicing days started. Lol

I strogly believe that prime young Tyson was clean. But noone can be 100% sure, true. Look at mike as an early teen, he was a huge muscular kid... His prime at 220 ish he was clean as a whistle I’m an ex bodybuilder I think I have a good eye for it, in some of his later fights post prison he looked a bit juicy to me. Holyfield is the most obvious juicer in boxing, it’s not even worth arguing about anymore, Roy Jones too when he moved up.

I think any heavyweight in the top 10 all time has the tools to beat any other on any given night. I can’t think of a single fighter you could argue would be unbeatable. I think Lewis is probably the best all round heavy, but he was vulnerable at times too. There’s a lot of truth to this. And no, no one is unbeatable. I don’t think Tyson is a top-ten heavyweight. But I’ve always said that, on his best night, he could’ve beaten anyone that ever lived. I suppose, as you pointed out, the same can be said about a few others.

Would it be unrealistic to think Mike was on the juice ? I strogly believe that prime young Tyson was clean. But noone can be 100% sure, true.

Why not to agree that prime Mike Tyson was the best small HW ever while Holyfield was the best roided small HW ever in the modern post-Marciano era.

All I asked for was a name YOU THINK Wilder would have had problems with, concerning the guys Mike fought up to the Berbick fight. I'm ''obsessed'' with resumes. Sue me :dunno: Name a guy mike would have problems with upto wilder fighting Fury?

I think Tyson was a great fighter. I can't deny that. But to say he could beat any heavyweight all-time is just ridiculous. I think he could completely dominate lesser competition but when he went up against another elite fighter or a very determined good fighter (Buster D) he folded. In other words, he was very good but is vastly overrated by some. Along the same lines I think Ali is often overrated. Yes he was a great champion but he wasn't unbeatable. I see Ali as the Holyfield of the 60s and 70s. Took on a lot of great fighters and went to war several times but took some losses in the process. I think any heavyweight in the top 10 all time has the tools to beat any other on any given night. I can’t think of a single fighter you could argue would be unbeatable. I think Lewis is probably the best all round heavy, but he was vulnerable at times too.

If you can name a guy Mike beat up to his fight with Berbick YOU THINK would trouble Wilder, I'd like to know his name. Imho, Wilder wouldn't need as many punches to end those guys. You think mike would have went 12 rounds with the fat Hiatian ? Wilder has fought 1 elite fighter in Fury, Ortiz is an old man, older and no where near as good as Holmes who mike gets no credit in beating. Why are you obsessed with who he’s faced I was born in 81 I have no idea who beat on the way up...I do know Wilder has took the easy route all the way and only now feels he can fight the best. I’m pretty sure mike fought and beat 8 of the top 10, there’s a long list who Deontay hasn’t fought, I’m not saying he couldn’t beat them, he just chose not to.

It’s cool on here to knock Mike, but whatever is said about him, he was hard to hit, had a great work rate, fast hands with great combinations and an incredible jab for a short guy punching up. I think Tyson was a great fighter. I can't deny that. But to say he could beat any heavyweight all-time is just ridiculous. I think he could completely dominate lesser competition but when he went up against another elite fighter or a very determined good fighter (Buster D) he folded. In other words, he was very good but is vastly overrated by some. Along the same lines I think Ali is often overrated. Yes he was a great champion but he wasn't unbeatable. I see Ali as the Holyfield of the 60s and 70s. Took on a lot of great fighters and went to war several times but took some losses in the process.

Winning is winning. Wilder wouldn't lose a single rd vs the guys Mike fought leading up to him being the youngest HW champ. I don't know how a fight fan can credit Mike for beating the guys he did YET call other guys resumes trashy :lol1: ! Wilder looks like trash, the question I was answering is why Mike gets praise and why Wilder is dismissed. He has lost plenty rounds against very mediocre fighters. We all know he has the equaliser, there is no disputing that. He is a terrible boxer, only a totally biased fan boy could try and spin that he is some master boxer. It’s cool on here to knock Mike, but whatever is said about him, he was hard to hit, had a great work rate, fast hands with great combinations and an incredible jab for a short guy punching up. If Wilder had half of Mikes skills he’d be one of the best ever.

OK I'll play. Most people would say prime Foreman is 1973 Foreman but Foreman himself said his old self would whoop his younger self so perhaps the Foreman that annihilated Cooney by his definition. Prime Ali is the Ali that beat Sonny Liston. Prime Lewis is the Lewis that KO'd Golata in 1 and TKO'd Briggs in 5 in the following match. Prime Holyfield is the Holyfield that beat Bowe during their 2nd fight. Prime Bowe is the Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first match. Klitchko brothers in the mid 2000s. All would beat "prime" Tyson. Now that I think about it more. Add the Sonny Liston that beat the daylights out of Cus's guy Floyd Patterson twice. He owned the peek a boo style. The Liston that dominated Patterson also beats Tyson.

Right. I’m 5’10” 210lbs in my best shape. I practiced that combo all the time. I remember Evander taking it though. I’ve always liked one armed combos, like the jab to the face with a left to the body. Looks cool when they get someone to protect the wrong side. Iam a big fan of the jab check hook . That's my jam but I cant pull off that body head **** it's not smart for me . I usually had a 4 inch height advantage minimum and I fought long . I have 78" reach, iam just under 6'2 and I fought at 141 . I could bang on the inside if I had to but it rarely did happen . My jab really did what I needed to set up the right hand or left hook . Iam pretty pissed my face broke right when it was getting good and I was competing open but life throws curve balls sometimes .

- -Nonsensical since U don't define their prime. OK I'll play. Most people would say prime Foreman is 1973 Foreman but Foreman himself said his old self would whoop his younger self so perhaps the Foreman that annihilated Cooney by his definition. Prime Ali is the Ali that beat Sonny Liston. Prime Lewis is the Lewis that KO'd Golata in 1 and TKO'd Briggs in 5 in the following match. Prime Holyfield is the Holyfield that beat Bowe during their 2nd fight. Prime Bowe is the Bowe that beat Holyfield in their first match. Klitchko brothers in the mid 2000s. All would beat "prime" Tyson.

People say Tyson would’ve been the greatest if Cus didn’t die. That’s pure speculation. He might’ve had the same flaws. Might’ve even been worse. Nobody can say. Exactly. Some people judge Tyson on what he could have been, not what he did. Bowe for example could have been better than Tyson ever was but he didn't have the discipline. I followed boxing in the mid-80s - 90s. I saw Tyson coming up with every excuse not to fight Holyfield or Foreman for 2 years+ during his "prime". There's a reason why Tyson didn't want to fight Holyfield or Foreman in the late 80's or early 90's. Because he thought he would lose. He only agreed to fight Holyfield to avoid Lewis and because they (King and Tyson) thought Holyfield was done with health problems and losses to Bowe and Moorer. It turns out Holyfield still had something left.

There are always so many what if's with Tyson. We could apply this to other boxers as well... What if Riddick Bowe was disciplined and laid off the cheeseburgers? What if Buster Douglas stayed as disciplined as he was for the Tyson fight (and laid off the cheeseburgers...)? What if Sonny Liston took Ali/Clay seriously and trained hard for him? (Or what if Liston didn't take a dive if you believe that) What if George Foreman got a rematch with Ali? We have to judge fighters on what what they did. Not what they could have done. Yeah, I never understood this. You could literally do it with any fighter. What if Malignaggi had power? He become a 2 weight world champ with the power of a 6 year old girl. Impressive in a way, But the fact is if he had power, he may not have developed a style and jab that was effective for him to have a decent career So all we can go on is what a fighter showed us. People say Tyson would’ve been the greatest if Cus didn’t die. That’s pure speculation. He might’ve had the same flaws. Might’ve even been worse. Nobody can say.