Serious question for those who don't like GGG/his resume

That's still considered an Opinion right ? Judging is an _________. Feel free to fill in the blank.

Is posters thinking GGG beat Canelo the same as Me thinking Hagler beat SRL ? I would think so. Atleast they add IMO rather than state it as fact that GGG beat Canelo like some on here do. You have to admit that the score cards dont always tell the whole story and sometimes they're just plain wrong. The fight between SRL and Hagler had the press scores split like 6-5-1 in favor of SRL. It was close that fight. Now compare that to the people who actually thought GGG beat Canelo. The fights weren't even as close as that fight and the presscores told a far different story. Combine both fights and there were a combined THREE cards that had Canelo winning. The overwhelming majority being GGG winning or draw. That's a robbery if I ever saw one. That's still considered an Opinion right ? I honestly can't really see how anyone could score that fight for Hagler...he didn't even get into any of the rounds until like round 5, and was pretty clearly down 5-1 after 6 iirc...then in the last 6 they were still close rounds and it wasn't like Hagler was putting on a clinic. I can see how people can view fighters somewhat differently sometimes...but I honestly don't see how people can score some fights differently...like I just can't see how anyone could score that fight for Hagler, and I am a guy who rewards the aggressor in general...but it is about hitting and not getting hit, and Hagler got beat badly at that game in that fight...I just don't really see the way he could have won. I think the GGG-Canelo fights were straightforward wins for GGG too...but not everyone agrees I suppose...for whatever reason though I have more issue with people saying Hagler beat SRL...I just can't possibly see a way for him to get 6 rounds...and for some reason some seem to feel that Hagler won...just makes me realize that some people view things way differently than me lol and trying to convince people of things that you think are obvious is not going to work with everyone.

I think Hagler was great, but I think he showed in his fights that if you wanted to go to war with him, well not even Mugabi or Tommy Hearns could put a dent in him...but if you could box/move/take a punch, you could really give him a lot of trouble...as Watts, Monroe, Duran and SRL showed (I watched those 4 fights, never watched the other close fights Hagler had)...Hagler just seemed content to walk his way inside, and if a guy could box/move/take a punch, they could generally tag Hagler and move around the ring and win rounds, from my vantage point. You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it. Have ever even watched Monroe Sr or Watts fight or do you just surf boxrec? From a previous post of mine...yeah I just don't really see how one can hype up those 2 guys, on resume or eye test, and say they are good quality fighters but that a lot of GGG's aren't...I would agree that they are solid fighters, just like GGG has about 15 of...and yeah man just the way I see it...I think that is a pretty fair comment on my part. If the argument for Hagler's greatness includes rating WM Sr and Watts on a really high level, I mean I just can't really co-sign that...imo it is pretty clear that some stuff that Hagler gets a pass for/exalted for, GGG gets little credit for...just my 2 cents, if people objectively view it differently, well that's fine too.

You are kind of making my point though, my friend lol. My general point is I'm not sure how one can make those two comments that you made simultaneously...how one can hype up the Monroe Srs and Watts of the world, and not give credit for GGG beating about 15 of those guys by KO...Lemieux, Monroe Jr, Brook, Geale, Stevens, Murray to name a few...I would say everyone GGG has fought since Proksa, besides Wade and then including Ouma, has been at least a quality fighter...some a level or 3 above that imo. I just don't really see the logic that Monroe Sr and Watts were anything more than the 15 or so quality fighters GGG ran through by KO...I guess some disagree but yeah I just don't really see that. You don’t see it because you don’t want to see it. Have ever even watched Monroe Sr or Watts fight or do you just surf boxrec?

You have to admit that the score cards dont always tell the whole story and sometimes they're just plain wrong. The fight between SRL and Hagler had the press scores split like 6-5-1 in favor of SRL. It was close that fight. Now compare that to the people who actually thought GGG beat Canelo. The fights weren't even as close as that fight and the presscores told a far different story. Combine both fights and there were a combined THREE cards that had Canelo winning. The overwhelming majority being GGG winning or draw. That's a robbery if I ever saw one. That's still considered an Opinion right ?

Is posters thinking GGG beat Canelo the same as Me thinking Hagler beat SRL ? I would think so. Atleast they add IMO rather than state it as fact that GGG beat Canelo like some on here do. You have to admit that the score cards dont always tell the whole story and sometimes they're just plain wrong. The fight between SRL and Hagler had the press scores split like 6-5-1 in favor of SRL. It was close that fight. Now compare that to the people who actually thought GGG beat Canelo. The fights weren't even as close as that fight and the presscores told a far different story. Combine both fights and there were a combined THREE cards that had Canelo winning. The overwhelming majority being GGG winning or draw. That's a robbery if I ever saw one.

Is posters thinking GGG beat Canelo the same as Me thinking Hagler beat SRL ? I would think so. Atleast they add IMO rather than state it as fact that GGG beat Canelo like some on here do.

Why do people act like all of the top guys at 160 didn't duck GGG in his prime? Quillin,Martinez, Lee, and etc. Gennady Golovkin at that time would have destroyed them, fans need to start putting more pressures on fighters to fight the best. You basically ruin peoples careers by ducking. Look at Rigondeaux. Ain't no way I could be under the same banner of a guy thats actively ducking me, i'd have to steal off on them at a press conference or something. What's going on with Rigo?

I don’t know ,Hagler is def not over rated . He is an all time great . Is he the goat at middle imo ?? Def not . But he is light years beyond ggg especially resume wise . I’ve read in this thread that John Mugabi is a journeyman .... not quite he is a two time world title holder and challenged for titles 4 times . He lacks a signature win and is far from a hof fighter or atg but he isn’t a journeyman . I’ve also read that Hagler lost to all journeymen besides Leonard which also isn’t fully telling . Willie Monroe , bobby watts , and sugar ray seales ( never beat Hagler but drew with him) were def journeymen status but they were good fighters .....however Hagler beat all three of those “journeymen “in rematches ( twice more for Monroe ) and he knocked them out to boot . His loss to Leonard is debatable ( although I had Leonard winning a very close fight ) and his other draw with antuofermo ( who wasn’t a journeyman btw ) was also ended via stoppage . Marvin Hagler has wins over : John Mugabi , Thomas Hearns , Roberto Duran ( still a great win , Duran went on to win a belt at middle although his best days had past and his best weight aswell he was still a notable win ), Alan minter , Vito antuofermo , fulgencio obelmejias , Bennie brisco . There’s 6 world champions and two first ballot hof fighters there .... that’s nothing to scoff at and certainly light years ahead of ANYTHING ggg has done . And iam no ggg hater , I watch all his fights . The logic in this original post and a lot after it is insane. That is all . -NORMNEALOn Yeah I just respectfully disagree my friend...just imo seems like you are doing a lot of excusing there for Hagler's poor performances, and maybe a lot of over-hyping his good wins as well...hyping the Duran and Mugabi wins and not giving GGG credit for stopping Brook, Lemieux, Murray, Monroe etc just seems a bit wrong to me...I just think GGG's run through about 15 or so quality fighters, all by KO, is really impressive, especially when you look at how Hagler struggled at times with guys on that level. I think Hagler was great, but I think he showed in his fights that if you wanted to go to war with him, well not even Mugabi or Tommy Hearns could put a dent in him...but if you could box/move/take a punch, you could really give him a lot of trouble...as Watts, Monroe, Duran and SRL showed (I watched those 4 fights, never watched the other close fights Hagler had)...Hagler just seemed content to walk his way inside, and if a guy could box/move/take a punch, they could generally tag Hagler and move around the ring and win rounds, from my vantage point. The point about Mugabi btw is that he never beat anyone of note in his entire career...if you wanted my honest opinion, I think Hagler took something out of Mugabi with that fight/win he had...when he fought Mugabi, Mugabi was a beast...though he was largely unchallenged then as well, and was moving up in weight...never said he was a journeyman, but when looking at him vs say Lemieux, I am not sure how one can really separate the two of them talent/career wise. Yeah resume wise I just don't really see where Hagler fought any better competition than GGG imo, and I don't think Hagler did as well in his fights as GGG did in his...I would put GGG as a clear ATG at MW and a decent claim as the GOAT imo...a lot of that is aided by the fact he fought his entire career at MW, and also I generally feel fighters/athletes improve over time, so with him being the most recent great at MW, that helps him. Just my 2 cents that hyping up guys like Alan Minter and Briscoe like they were any better than even the Matthew Macklins and Adamas of the world of today...and then getting on GGG about his resume when he has like 15 guys by KO on or above the level of Minter/Briscoe...I mean yeah I just don't really get that one. I've seen film on Alan Minter...anyone really trying to hype him up as a good win while getting on GGG about his wins...yeah I just can't co-sign that my friend...GGG even at 37 would roll over him in 1 round. As another guy pointed out, a lot of those guys who used to fight at MW would probably fight at lower weights today due to weigh-in changes...so there is some truth there...but yeah imo just saying that an Alan Minter or someone like that could compete in today's era at MW...I mean he would get crushed I'm almost certain.

If you think Monroe Sr and Watts were "not good fighters" that tells me all there is to know about you and this thread. Exactly who are these quality fighters ggg ran through? You are kind of making my point though, my friend lol. My general point is I'm not sure how one can make those two comments that you made simultaneously...how one can hype up the Monroe Srs and Watts of the world, and not give credit for GGG beating about 15 of those guys by KO...Lemieux, Monroe Jr, Brook, Geale, Stevens, Murray to name a few...I would say everyone GGG has fought since Proksa, besides Wade and then including Ouma, has been at least a quality fighter...some a level or 3 above that imo. I just don't really see the logic that Monroe Sr and Watts were anything more than the 15 or so quality fighters GGG ran through by KO...I guess some disagree but yeah I just don't really see that.

Why do people act like all of the top guys at 160 didn't duck GGG in his prime? Quillin,Martinez, Lee, and etc. Gennady Golovkin at that time would have destroyed them, fans need to start putting more pressures on fighters to fight the best. You basically ruin peoples careers by ducking. Look at Rigondeaux. Ain't no way I could be under the same banner of a guy thats actively ducking me, i'd have to steal off on them at a press conference or something.

I don’t know ,Hagler is def not over rated . He is an all time great . Is he the goat at middle imo ?? Def not . But he is light years beyond ggg especially resume wise . I’ve read in this thread that John Mugabi is a journeyman .... not quite he is a two time world title holder and challenged for titles 4 times . He lacks a signature win and is far from a hof fighter or atg but he isn’t a journeyman . I’ve also read that Hagler lost to all journeymen besides Leonard which also isn’t fully telling . Willie Monroe , bobby watts , and sugar ray seales ( never beat Hagler but drew with him) were def journeymen status but they were good fighters .....however Hagler beat all three of those “journeymen “in rematches ( twice more for Monroe ) and he knocked them out to boot . His loss to Leonard is debatable ( although I had Leonard winning a very close fight ) and his other draw with antuofermo ( who wasn’t a journeyman btw ) was also ended via stoppage . Marvin Hagler has wins over : John Mugabi , Thomas Hearns , Roberto Duran ( still a great win , Duran went on to win a belt at middle although his best days had past and his best weight aswell he was still a notable win ), Alan minter , Vito antuofermo , fulgencio obelmejias , Bennie brisco . There’s 6 world champions and two first ballot hof fighters there .... that’s nothing to scoff at and certainly light years ahead of ANYTHING ggg has done . And iam no ggg hater , I watch all his fights . The logic in this original post and a lot after it is insane. That is all . -NORMNEALOn

I respectfully disagree...I think G has been great and imo is an ATG...his dominant run at MW running through (Imo) a lot of quality fighters really impressed me...I also saw him as clearly better than Nelo and DJ in those fights...thought SD was better but scoring wise it was a could-go-either way fight on my card. Hagler 'only' fought Hearns, Leonard, Duran and maybe Mugabi if G only fought those few guys you mentioned...and Hagler beat Hearns, but I feel his performances vs SRL and Duran were worse than anything G has done, certainly in his prime...and quite clearly the SRL and Duran that Hagler fought were not the best (weight, prime etc) versions of themselves, and still gave Hagler very tough fights, and in SRL's case, he pretty much embarrassed him. So yeah some think Hagler is ahead of GGG, I personally don't really see that as being the case when I evaluate their careers...but others feel differently...all we can do is analyze the situations and try to call it like we see it. Exactly who are these quality fighters ggg ran through?

Eh...so what I am gathering from you is some losses vs not good fighters get passes, and some wins against that same level get criticized...just think when evaluating fighters you have to evaluate the whole career, good and bad...losing in a first fight is different than your 30th fight as it was with Hagler, poor comparison there imo. What did Hagler do in his run that was so exceptional btw? If you give him credit for Mugabi etc, you have to give GGG credit for Lemieux etc...just seems like a little bit of romanticising past fighters and downing current fighters who some don't identify with. If you think Monroe Sr and Watts were "not good fighters" that tells me all there is to know about you and this thread.

I read it. You credited the win. I credit the MAN. What I'm saying - different than what you said - is that the caliber of fighter that Tommy Hearns was is superior to anyone G has fought. I think G is a good fighter, but I don't rate him anywhere near as high as some others do for this reason. Carnelo, Derevyanchenko and Jacobs were the only real tests - and he arguably failed all three. And I would rate that version of Hearns - as a fighter, not on resume - higher than I would rate those three in terms of who would get the W. Hagler beating that kind of a fighter rates him similarly higher. So what's left to credit for G? He hasn't truly passed any test and he's already nearing twilight. I respectfully disagree...I think G has been great and imo is an ATG...his dominant run at MW running through (Imo) a lot of quality fighters really impressed me...I also saw him as clearly better than Nelo and DJ in those fights...thought SD was better but scoring wise it was a could-go-either way fight on my card. Hagler 'only' fought Hearns, Leonard, Duran and maybe Mugabi if G only fought those few guys you mentioned...and Hagler beat Hearns, but I feel his performances vs SRL and Duran were worse than anything G has done, certainly in his prime...and quite clearly the SRL and Duran that Hagler fought were not the best (weight, prime etc) versions of themselves, and still gave Hagler very tough fights, and in SRL's case, he pretty much embarrassed him. So yeah some think Hagler is ahead of GGG, I personally don't really see that as being the case when I evaluate their careers...but others feel differently...all we can do is analyze the situations and try to call it like we see it.

Just seems like two different grading systems to me...and since I know it is coming...I would add that yes Hagler's high of KOing Hearns in that war was better than any win GGG has imo, even if one (as I do) considered GGG the better man vs Nelo in both fights. I won't bore you with all of the various top fighters that Hagler beat. To your question: There's nobody - NOBODY - on Golovkin's resume, win or loss, that comes anywhere close to Tommy 'Hitman' Hearns. Why did you quote me? I basically said that in my post lol...I think you are going overboard (as usual ;) about Hearns being BY FAR THE BEST fighter compared to anyone on GGG's list...Nelo would certainly be in that same ballpark...Hagler was great imo...just as GGG is great imo...Hagler has a few more bad performances than GGG, but he has the best win (vs Tommy) compared to GGG, even though I felt GGG beat Nelo both times, those aren't as good as that win vs Hearns imo. If one is to tout the 'top' fighters that Hagler beat...then I think one has to give GGG a lot of credit for having wins over 'top' fighters as well...as mentioned, Hagler's 2nd best win was over Mugabi...and Mugabi never beat anyone his whole career...Duran was obviously great but not at that weight and that fight was effectively a draw anyway. But yeah I just don't see how one could really hype up Hagler's wins and try and slight GGG's...doesn't really add up imo. I like ya man...but maybe try reading a whole post before responding ;)

Charbroiled beating GGG or red!😂🤣🤣😂 what idiot said that!

As fans, we have a responsibility to hold those we root for to the same criticisms as the next fighter. Fans do no one any good by being blindly loyal. And it was a compliment. Thanks man...yeah I completely agree my friend

I’d want to believe that if the former greats were captured on screen and each fight accessible like today we would have much more credible honest opinions. Hype and overselling is part of the human condition. Most things in life don’t live up to as advertised and most things aren’t as awful as we say. We love to brag and to b*tch. I think a lot of greats would come down to earth a bit while overlooked fighters may get noticed more. Frazier looked like Marvis vs George but a stud vs Ali. I think it’s hard to get people to agree but I understand why sum sports get rid of the highest and lowest score. That bold gave me a good laugh...thanks

You are the rare fight fan where you are not completely clouded by emotions (we all have some emo tendencies :) ). Fighters are who they are and no amount of romanticizing will change that. When GGG fights top guys, it's day and night. You can tell by the way he handled those flash knockdowns. The lower level guys wouldn't make it out of the next round much less to hear the final bell. He becomes a headhunter and prone to throwing 1 punch at a time, ignoring the body. GGG, IMHO, wasted way too much time loitering instead of exploring. Why, because the incoming is more worrisome vs top tier guys. The roids stuff is puzzling. Nelo got ''popped'' and there was a judgement handed down. Some can say Nelo paid off the right people to have the story told a certain way.....:hail: conspiracies. Anything that doesn't go the way a fan wants it to go will have nefarious, shadowy men to blame. It's understandable, slightly, when boxers themselves become delusional, but fans ??? I expect boxers to say they're great, to hype themselves up (Hi, Khan). But fans should know better. Who in the heck would say beating Dib (sp) is a step in the championship direction other than Khan ??? His fans, that's who. I guess most fighters get some amount of hate due to their fans. Hey man all we can do is call it like we see it...I think GGG was great...and wouldn't be surprised if he is more or less done now, and also wouldn't be surprised if he has another couple great fights/performances in him. Some disagree on GGG and think he was overrated or even worse lol...it is what it is...I think some criticism of GGG is warranted and I think there are some things to hit him on that a lot of people don't actually touch on...but yeah imo the criticisms he gets are over the top...I think he was one of the best I've seen. Others think he was over-hyped...it just is what it is lol...if the people 'hating' on him are keeping it real in their eyes, then there is no issue with me...and even if they aren't well oh well who cares lol. But yeah I like Canelo and I don't hate his fans...they back him almost no matter what...that's what happens as fans sometimes, we are fanatical...he is definitely a great fighter though, no matter if he is getting help in some ways as the A-side, the dude has proved his level, which is very high. Also, thank you for the compliment...I think ;) lol