A great example of what a liar Eddie Hearn is.

totally disagree. Showtime could drop boxing tomorrow and I would still keep it due to Homeland, Ray Donovan, Billions, etc. Personally I think Showtime has MUCH better original programming then HBO these days. Other than GOT, which I dont even watch, HBO hasnt had a show worth watching since Boardwalk Empire ended..... that's because showtime basically gave up on hit movies and poured that money into original series and boxing. while simultaneously lowering their price. sho and hbo have very different strategies.

Don't know why they keep comparing HBO with Showtime, or vise versa. HBO subscribers sign up not because of boxing, but because of hit series like Game of Thrones. That is not the case with Showtime. Boxing fans expect more boxing shows from SHO. Which it fails to deliver. Like right now it's not the best time to sign up as it's plague with inactivity problems. totally disagree. Showtime could drop boxing tomorrow and I would still keep it due to Homeland, Ray Donovan, Billions, etc. Personally I think Showtime has MUCH better original programming then HBO these days. Other than GOT, which I dont even watch, HBO hasnt had a show worth watching since Boardwalk Empire ended.....

Don't know why they keep comparing HBO with Showtime, or vise versa. HBO subscribers sign up not because of boxing, but because of hit series like Game of Thrones. That is not the case with Showtime. Boxing fans expect more boxing shows from SHO. Which it fails to deliver. Like right now it's not the best time to sign up as it's plague with inactivity problems.

you dont know that Yes, I do know that. https://image.gzt.com/resim/upload/2016/10/24/11/57/9b8ba97agiphy5.gif

you dont know that Yes, I do know that. most contracts have an out clause Not TV contracts for major sports leagues. Why would PBC have accepted only 1 year guaranteed from SHO when FOX was offering 4 years guaranteed? and if it doesnt its nothing to amend a contract, its normal business. And yet, knowing they are pulling out of boxing, HBO continues to add dates to fulfill the fights owed to fighters. Anybody who believes 2019 is SHO's last year in boxing is an absolute moron. I dare anybody to bet me that SHO will pull out of boxing next year.

depends on how you define "successful". All of HBOs homework indicated that boxing does NOT generate sufficient numbers of new subscribers to justify the expense. Showtime operates on the same business model as HBO, so its hard to see how their results would be any different. Will people watch it? Sure. But without it would Showtime lose $50 or $100 million worth of subscribers? Doubtful. Lets assume for a minute that HBOs research is correct, and boxing does not really drive new subscriptions. Lets also assume for a second that if Showtime dropped boxing, they might lose somewhere around 100,000 subscribers (roughly 25% of their average viewing audience). So if 100,000 subscribers generate approx. $13 million a year in subscription revenue, does it really make sense to spend $30 or $40 million a year to make $13 million? One Punch That is not how a syndicate sees the picture. The idea in any market is to dominate the market. HBO and Showtime were in a battle to get the same typical subscribers, you are quite right, but in fact, that leaves twice as many subscribers to the remaining network. Sure there is competition, and thats how the game is played. Showtime is willing to fight off these other platforms and get that market share abdicated by HBO. This same principle plays out in micromarkets: when I was a kid on 86th street and Lexington ave there was a Burger KIng (was new then) and a Papaya Hot Dog King. They both wanted to be the place where people got that cheap lunch...so they had a price war. You could get 25 cent whoppers and two great hot dogs for the same.... My point here is that this was a war where both companies were willing to take the hit to become the dominant player in that micro-market. Nobody ever won that price war, but it went on a while, until traffic increased so much I guess they figured nobody could take the prize. The correct math that the executives see is a doubling of their current market.

The lie is that he wouldn't bet against Showtime leaving boxing next year when he knows 100% for a fact the soonest they can leave boxing is 2022. You do not have to explain yourself. Anyone with a basic understanding of logic understand that this is a lie. The first thing one learns when studying ethics is that ALL Lies are of a sort! So.. WBC guy you visit your grandma, and she pinches your cheek and says "on wait I have something for you!" She proceeds to bring out the loudest, gaudiest tie with fifty colors, polyester, and she asks "so how do you like it." Now, you will Lie. YOu will justify the lie of being of a sort...I believe its called a white lie in this case? Kant was famous for not accepting this because it created a major contradiction and reduced people to "means to an end." He told people that if one was hiding a prisoner from a freedom group and the soldgers came to the door and asked if you had the person, the right thing to do would be to not lie. He felt, and I am not agreeing with him! that all lies are lies and everyone has an exception for why they lie. The point is these fans of Hearns are acting like morons. Its a lie, just like any other lie. By the way, WBC guy has not lied and been honest about his point of view, as a poster. Just something to be aware of. And you did not say anything that was out of line regarding Hearn. He is obviously a manipulator, like all promoters tend to be. People need to stop sucking Hearns off. Let him rest a while first.

Yes, I was VERY surprised that a broadcast network did as paid deal for top-level boxing. So what? Because you declared authoritatively that it would NEVER EVER HAPPEN. A year later, it happened. Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Meanwhile I swore up and down that it would happen, and guess what, it happened. I would be willing to bet my life that Showtime is still showing boxing in 2020. I would be willing to bet any amount of money that you want. I'll even give you 10 to 1 odds. Put up 100k. I'll put up 1 million dollars. We'll put the money in escrow. If Showtime doesn't show boxing in 2020, you get 1 million dollars. If they do, I get 100k. You in?

Well, you are the guy who swore up and down that FOX would never give PBC a paid deal in a million years, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by what surprises you. SHO began dominating boxing so much that HBO had to quit. SHO was so afraid of losing Haymon to another network that they offered more money, more dates and a three year guarantee. If you look at those facts and come to the conclusion that they're going to leave the sport in one year when they just signed a contract guaranteeing three years, you're an even bigger moron than I already thought. Guess, as usual, I'll have to bump this thread in a year to remind you over and over what a ****ing idiot you are. We can go back to our arguments a year ago and I was proven right on every single point and you were proven wrong on every single point. Guess you haven't learned yet. See ya in a year buddy. Yes, I was VERY surprised that a broadcast network did as paid deal for top-level boxing. So what? It still remains to be seen whether top-level fights can be supported via traditional advertising. Fox took a leap of faith here, and time will tell if it was a smart play for them, or ends up a bust. Its never been done before, so you might want to wait a year or 2 before you start sucking your own dick. And as far as Showtime "dominating" over the past few years, if you call a bump of maybe 50,000 viewers (out of tens of millions) "dominating", then we obviously have different definitions of the word. And I'll definitely give you one thing, you are consistent. Whether posting under St Laurent, Original Zero, or this WBC name, you still are an obnoxious twat who always seems to think he is the smartest guy in the room.

An average of one fight or less a month won't attract subscribers doe. It almost grinds to a halt in the last quarters of the year with the excuse of being riddled with other sports events. If you can't compete with other sports, then leave the boxing business. It's not for you.

I have no problem with promoters lying, they all do it. 100% correct. Their primary job is to lie. The difference is that UK fans for some reason believe everything Hearn says, while US fans have known for 50 years not to believe what promoters say.

I wouldnt be surprised either. Well, you are the guy who swore up and down that FOX would never give PBC a paid deal in a million years, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised by what surprises you. SHO began dominating boxing so much that HBO had to quit. SHO was so afraid of losing Haymon to another network that they offered more money, more dates and a three year guarantee. If you look at those facts and come to the conclusion that they're going to leave the sport in one year when they just signed a contract guaranteeing three years, you're an even bigger moron than I already thought. Guess, as usual, I'll have to bump this thread in a year to remind you over and over what a ****ing idiot you are. We can go back to our arguments a year ago and I was proven right on every single point and you were proven wrong on every single point. Guess you haven't learned yet. See ya in a year buddy.

We don't know that he knows that for a fact. You may be privy to the details of Showtime's deal with PBC, but that doesn't guarantee that, Hearn, a competitor of PBC is. If I know the key points in Hearn's DAZN deal, I can promise you Hearn knows the key points in Haymon's SHO deal. People talk. Haymon doesn't, but Espinoza does, Dibella does, Finkel does, etc. It didn't take long for people to find out Hearn only had two years guaranteed with DAZN. Word got out about FOX wanting PBC exclusively and Haymon staying loyal to SHO. The idea that SHO is going to pull out in a year when they're the most successful boxing network right now is absolutely ridiculous.

It's three years guaranteed. I know that. You know that. Hearn knows that. You, me and Hearn all know Showtime isn't leaving boxing next year. Hearn is clearly lying when he says he wouldn't be surprised if Showtime quit boxing next year. Don't play dumb. I wouldnt be surprised either. You like to act as if all these billion dollar companies bounce their strategies off you before they make decisions, but sadly your opinion is no more valid then Hearns, or mine for that matter. Truth is that you havent the slightest idea what Moonves replacement might or might not do as it pertains to content. They could easily follow HBOs lead and dump live sports next year (despite whatever side deal Espinoza and Haymon might have). You dont know. You're not in the room.

this is actually a lie because Showtime may leave the network and go with an APP. Showtime is an app. What the hell are you talking about?

All of HBOs homework indicated that boxing does NOT generate sufficient numbers of new subscribers to justify the expense. Showtime operates on the same business model as HBO, so its hard to see how their results would be any different. No, SHO's business model is very different from HBO. When SHO sensed weakness in HBO's boxing franchise, SHO got very aggressive in that space to steal away the subscribers who are primarily motivated by boxing. That's why HBO's homework started to indicate boxing wasn't generating a sufficient number of subscribers. Because at the same exact time, SHO's homework was indicating boxing was a huge motivator in new sign ups. That's why SHO started to invest more and more while HBO was investing less and less. Once the tide turns, HBO's choice was throw a ton of money at the problem or pull out. HBO spends a LOT of money on hit movies that SHO doesn't spend. As SHO has shifted more towards boxing, they've also steered away more and more from spending money on recent hit movies. HBO and SHO differ in a lot of ways. HBO is $14.99 on its own, SHO is $8.99. Boxing is much cheaper than recent hit movies, so part of how SHO is able to charge so much less than HBO is because of their focus on boxing. As for SHO's ratings, you're going by the public numbers, which are wildly inaccurate. SHO has millions of subscribers that don't watch on traditional TV. Nielsen doesn't count those boxing viewers. Unlike HBO, SHO offers live fights on their apps, archives full fight broadcasts on their apps, etc. All things HBO refused to do. So SHO subscribers are far more likely to watch boxing on the app than HBO subscribers were, which makes SHO's Nielsen numbers for boxing completely irrelevant. SHO choosing to spend more and more money is based on the internal numbers they have access to that you don't. They can see every single person watching boxing on the Showtime app and Showtime Anytime. They can see the day new people sign up and they know big fights lead to a huge boost. Use some common sense. HBO kept spending less on boxing because boxing wasn't working for them, while SHO kept spending more on boxing, because boxing clearly is working for them. Now SHO is about to invest the most they've ever invested and just signed their first ever multi-year deal with a boxing content provider since Tyson got out of prison. It's three years guaranteed. I know that. You know that. Hearn knows that. You, me and Hearn all know Showtime isn't leaving boxing next year. Hearn is clearly lying when he says he wouldn't be surprised if Showtime quit boxing next year. Don't play dumb.

The lie is that he wouldn't bet against Showtime leaving boxing next year when he knows 100% for a fact the soonest they can leave boxing is 2022. We don't know that he knows that for a fact. You may be privy to the details of Showtime's deal with PBC, but that doesn't guarantee that, Hearn, a competitor of PBC is.

Showtime sucks besides boxing. HBO has plenty of other things going for it. If showtime drops boxing, I drop showtime. I'm not dropping HBO though because they have shows that are actually worth watching.

You say that, yet HBO is still adding boxing dates to fulfill the fights they owe to fighters rather than just pay them off, save on production costs, etc. You really think Hearn believes Showtime will be out of boxing next year when they just signed a massive multiyear deal, just bullied HBO out of the genre, beat HBO boxing head to head in the ratings, etc? Showtime boxing is about to have its most successful period ever. Hearn knows that. Arum knows that. They're promoters. It's their job to lie and plant doubts. You can't seriously believe Hearn is expressing his true opinion on whether Showtime will stick around for more than a year. depends on how you define "successful". All of HBOs homework indicated that boxing does NOT generate sufficient numbers of new subscribers to justify the expense. Showtime operates on the same business model as HBO, so its hard to see how their results would be any different. Will people watch it? Sure. But without it would Showtime lose $50 or $100 million worth of subscribers? Doubtful. Lets assume for a minute that HBOs research is correct, and boxing does not really drive new subscriptions. Lets also assume for a second that if Showtime dropped boxing, they might lose somewhere around 100,000 subscribers (roughly 25% of their average viewing audience). So if 100,000 subscribers generate approx. $13 million a year in subscription revenue, does it really make sense to spend $30 or $40 million a year to make $13 million?

omg is fast eddie spreading fake news here? wtf im waiting for a youtube vid of ed speaking russian into his cell phone