I believe Terence Crawford is an exceptionally skilled fighter, but nothing he has done has convinced me that he beats the likes of Porter, Thurman, or Spence. I've noticed that since he fought Gamboa, he has not been in there with a fighter who is fast, powerful, and willingness to let their hands go. The Benavidez fight tonight did not show how he would really do against the other top welters. Is he a top ten P4P fighter? Sure. Is he top five P4P? I honestly don't know. From a skill standpoint you can say he is top 5 P4P. But, when you look at the total package of skill and resume, he isn't there. I think Loma, Usyk, Canelo, GGG(if you think he won both fights), Spence, Mikey, and maybe Thurman have more of a package than he does. Everybody points to the "eye test" but the "eye test" doesn't tell the whole story. Let's look at his opponents.
1. Gamboa - The best fighter Crawford has ever fought and the first fighter to actually hurt Crawford. But due to size, Gamboa fell.
2. Postol - Good fighter but simply too limited. Just lost to Josh Taylor and hasn't made any noise since.
3. Felix Diaz - He lost to Lamont before fighting Crawford and he just recently lost a fight in the DR. He was never anything special.
4. Indongo - Was just luck imo. Prograis finished Postol much faster than Crawford so this should be an asterisk in a way.
5. Jeff Horn - A complete bum imo. I had Manny beating Horn 9-3 or 8-4.
5. Jose Benavidez - Talented fighter but really nothing that special. He didn't let his hands go and he didn't cut off the ring effectively. He also lost Herrera(imo) Plus, he got shot and hasn't been the same since.
So, Crawford is skilled but I have seem much better and more prove champions in history. I feel that he has benefited from dominating B and C level competition. Does he get the big fights? I don't know. But what is clear, is that he still has a lot to prove like the other fighters.
Agree 100%
He's good but nothing special and tonight showed it
You are a racist with the worst judgement I’ve ever seen so I’ll take you pathetic opinion with a grain of salt.
I'm of the same mind, I think Spence will be a clear #1 in the div eventually, but I'm not ruling out the idea that Bud could beat him. In my mind, Spence is just too big and rugged right now though.
Thurman is losing relevancy until he can prove that he's still at that level he once was. Boxing is rarely kind to guys who sit on the shelf. You have Ward and Garcia who managed to come back strong but Keith has been perpetually injured and that rarely every works out well. I'm honestly confused as to how people still pick Keith over guys like Bud and Errol who are actively dominating right now and looking better than Keith ever did.
Right now Thurman is out of sight and out of mind. Even if he fought again tomorrow, we would not see him in the ring with a top guy til 2020. I don't even think of him right now.
This is all about Bud vs Spence for me at Welter. We got one guy named David with a big set of tools vs a Goliath
Bud is like FM and Manny he came from much lower weight, he doesnt have full WW power and is not a full WW but has the skills to out box anybody, he wont get into big exchanges with the like of Spence he will box with speed and movement.
I agree he's smaller than all those other top welterweights. We'll see once the matches are made.
I don't see why he wouldn't beat Porter. Porter is too one dimensional if you ask me. I think Bud for sure beats him. And I think even if he were to lose, which I don't think is a given, he's gonna give Thurman & Spence a competitive fight.
Personally I lean towards Spence being the uncrowned king of the division & I think he'll beat all 3. I think Thurman is up in the air with all his time out of the ring so I'mma need to see him fight again before I can say he'll beat the other 2 or the other 2 might beat him. And Bud will for sure beat Porter.
I'm of the same mind, I think Spence will be a clear #1 in the div eventually, but I'm not ruling out the idea that Bud could beat him. In my mind, Spence is just too big and rugged right now though.
Thurman is losing relevancy until he can prove that he's still at that level he once was. Boxing is rarely kind to guys who sit on the shelf. You have Ward and Garcia who managed to come back strong but Keith has been perpetually injured and that rarely every works out well. I'm honestly confused as to how people still pick Keith over guys like Bud and Errol who are actively dominating right now and looking better than Keith ever did.
If Spence could break down a bigger, stronger Brook, I can only imagine what he would do to Crawford who is much smaller.
Maybe he wont catch him, you think Brook can move lol.
I dont know who would win that fight they both great in different ways, either can win.
Crawford didnt look great tonight besides the stoppage. His punches in exchanges were wide and sloppy and it seems his reflexes are slowing down a bit
With that said, I'm not going to downgrade him for one decent performance (he stopped the guy, after all)
Let's not have revisionist history when it comes to guys like Thurman (Remember the Diego Chavez and Luis Collazo fights, he had some sketchy moments against two below average fighters)
I still rank Bud above Thurman and Spence.
I wanna see Bud vs Porter next, have Danny fight Jesse Vargas or maybe Broner. If Keith doesnt defend his title soon, the dude needs to be stripped
Benevides was very sharp and awkward and also rangy he is not an easy fighter too beat I can see why he was unbeaten and why the good wraps on him .
From a skill standpoint I agree. But, when you include skill + resume, he is not better than Spence, Canelo, Thurman, GGG, Loma, Usyk, and Joshua. At the 147 division when you compare him to Spence and Thurman, and take your bias out of it, you will see that there really isn't that much of a "skill" disparity between the three. Thurman has more power, better defense, and speed. Spence is stronger, more powerful, applies constant pressure, and is a body snatcher. I also think that Crawford vs Porter is 50/50. Danny vs Crawford would be a tough match up even though I favor Crawford.
P4P is a snapshot of where everyone currently stands, not their historic standing.
You're making the mistake of including long-term resume in a P4P argument. In that case, Loma gets bumped down because he lost to Salido. But, we really don't count that anymore. It's a "what have you done for me lately" kind of thing.
The fact that you have Thurman, who hasn't don't shyt for a while now, above Bud tells me that you aren't quite getting what others are looking at in terms of P4P, which is why it might not make sense to you.
The Porter thing just kinda blows my mind.... I'll save that argument for another day though.
Ocampo was ranked slightly above Benavidez and had more points in boxrec.
Ocampo lasted one round
Took Crawford 12 rounds against a one-legged opponent
Spence smokes Crawford
Crawford just gets hit too much. If Thurman and Spence would've landed those same amount of shots as Jose did, Crawford would've been in trouble. Not to be too skeptical but I think Speedy Ellis vs Crawford would be 50/50
I dont think Crawford respected Benavidez, which would explain his lazy effort in spots
Bud is like FM and Manny he came from much lower weight, he doesnt have full WW power and is not a full WW but has the skills to out box anybody, he wont get into big exchanges with the like of Spence he will box with speed and movement.
If Spence could break down a bigger, stronger Brook, I can only imagine what he would do to Crawford who is much smaller.
I agree I honestly think pac knocks him out
Manny wont fight him and if was to happen Manny would get beat up and probably stopped late. way too much placed on his last win against a shot 140 pounder who was scared to death.
TC would light Manny up at this point in Mannys career.
Crawford didnt look great tonight besides the stoppage. His punches in exchanges were wide and sloppy and it seems his reflexes are slowing down a bit
With that said, I'm not going to downgrade him for one decent performance (he stopped the guy, after all)
Let's not have revisionist history when it comes to guys like Thurman (Remember the Diego Chavez and Luis Collazo fights, he had some sketchy moments against two below average fighters)
I still rank Bud above Thurman and Spence.
I wanna see Bud vs Porter next, have Danny fight Jesse Vargas or maybe Broner. If Keith doesnt defend his title soon, the dude needs to be stripped
If you don't know whether he's top 5 P4P, then you are either biased or lacking knowledge of the science. Sorry, but I just gotta be honest there. I'm not saying you have to like the guy, but if you don't understand him in the top 5, something is wrong...
I say that as someone who has Loma as #1.
From a skill standpoint I agree. But, when you include skill + resume, he is not better than Spence, Canelo, Thurman, GGG, Loma, Usyk, and Joshua. At the 147 division when you compare him to Spence and Thurman, and take your bias out of it, you will see that there really isn't that much of a "skill" disparity between the three. Thurman has more power, better defense, and speed. Spence is stronger, more powerful, applies constant pressure, and is a body snatcher. I also think that Crawford vs Porter is 50/50. Danny vs Crawford would be a tough match up even though I favor Crawford.
Bud is like FM and Manny he came from much lower weight, he doesnt have full WW power and is not a full WW but has the skills to out box anybody, he wont get into big exchanges with the like of Spence he will box with speed and movement.
That's a fair assessment. Ward just called him the best of the best again. I can't ****ing handle it. These TR jobbers are the reason boxers can't lose a fight and ever bounce back. God forbid the day Crawford loses a fight. They're going to have to ****ing shelf him after that. His market value will be honest existant.
Ward had a 10-8 round for Crawford tonight lol
If you don't know whether he's top 5 P4P, then you are either biased or lacking knowledge of the science. Sorry, but I just gotta be honest there. I'm not saying you have to like the guy, but if you don't understand him in the top 5, something is wrong...
I say that as someone who has Loma as #1.