Who is the lineal HW champion?

I don't consider Fury the lineal champion because his absence/breakdown could have been due to or influenced by ducking of Joshua and/or Wilder, but I think he deserves a mention for being the returning, last lineal champion of late 2015 who then never defended that crown. Wow that was a mouthful!

ooops, nearly forgot..... Long Live King Fury !! the most handsome boxer, and best heavyweight ever :wave::lol1:

regarding the WBC..... I think kafkod was right earlier one issue is, the brothers would not fight.... but the FACT is, they are not the same person..... tied up in that issue is the WBC reluctance to recognize Wlad, in any form..... which is likely why he did not hold the WBC belt after Vit retired..... they totally refused to rank - therefore mandate - him the other issue, mentioned by WBC WBA IBF..... is that lineage is not debatable..... and the FACT is, that Wlad was THE MAN at heavyweight, no question.,.... there was a level between him and Povetkin, and there was a level between Povetkin and everyone else I agree that it is not straight-forward, but my bottom-line remains..... FACT: Fury IS the-man-who-beat-the-man..... no question FACT: who cares, lineage is highly over-rated..... and triangle-theories do not work in boxing..... good luck beating Wilder and then Joshua

Don't factor into it at all. Lineal is supposed to remove all of the politics. Either you beat the man who beat the man or you didn't. If he failed a test against Klitschko and the result was changed to a DQ or a no decision, then of course he wouldn't be lineal champion because he'd no longer be the man who beat the man. But a failure from a different fight is irrelevant. exactly lineage is not debatable this thread essentially cannot justify its own existence lol

When wlad beat Chagaev how was he the consensus no.2 in the division? No he wasn't. The Klitschko brothers were the consensus 1 and 2. Chagaev was 3. I personally didn't recognize Klitschko vs Chagaev as a legitimate lineal title fight, but my personal opinion doesn't matter if the rest of society decides to go along with the ruse.

When wlad beat Chagaev how was he the consensus no.2 in the division? just because ring mag says so? vitali was clearly better than chagaev

Fair enough. I've been struggling with whether or not I still consider Fury lineal, and this post has helped erase any doubts I had. Thanks. I'm with you. When Fury was tweeting the he's retired, no he's joking, no he's not joking, yes he is joking, etc, I was inclined to consider the title vacant. But with #1 never fighting #2 in that time, and with Fury back and active in less time than previous lineal champions, I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt to not breaking the lineage. Breaking the heavyweight lineage should be avoided at all costs.

Don't factor into it at all. Lineal is supposed to remove all of the politics. Either you beat the man who beat the man or you didn't. If he failed a test against Klitschko and the result was changed to a DQ or a no decision, then of course he wouldn't be lineal champion because he'd no longer be the man who beat the man. But a failure from a different fight is irrelevant. Fair enough. I've been struggling with whether or not I still consider Fury lineal, and this post has helped erase any doubts I had. Thanks.

when was Pacquiao ever the lineal welterweight champ ? look, this is just a silly argument to me Fury..... 1) held all 4 recognized titles 2) was never beaten 3) only retired in the minds of people who wanted him gone lol 4) will be in action this month he is not one of the two best heavyweights on the planet, and may not even be the 3rd best heavyweight on the planet..... proving that lineage is highly overrated my bottom line on this is..... really, who cares ? NOBODY else could possibly lay claim to being undisputed, or lineal..... Wilder/Joshua need to fight in order to determine that who cares what Fury is until he fights/beats one of them ? Has anyone pointed out to you that he never held the WBC yet? also how was klitschko the man he never had all four recognised titles and who did he beat that goes all the way back down the lineage?

For those that think Fury is still the lineal champ, how do the failed tests factor into it? Don't factor into it at all. Lineal is supposed to remove all of the politics. Either you beat the man who beat the man or you didn't. If he failed a test against Klitschko and the result was changed to a DQ or a no decision, then of course he wouldn't be lineal champion because he'd no longer be the man who beat the man. But a failure from a different fight is irrelevant.

They don't. Shouldn't they? You test positive for something, and your entire career should be thrown into question.

For those that think Fury is still the lineal champ, how do the failed tests factor into it? They don't.

I guess Fury is technically.

For those that think Fury is still the lineal champ, how do the failed tests factor into it?

ya fkn turnip :lol1: You really are that stupid, you don't understand what it is.

Lineage is to determine who's the best at given division without taking real belts into consideration. It's determined by two highest ranked (not necessarily by alphabet orgs) fighting each other. You can't be that stupid to not understand this. ya fkn turnip :lol1: Kovalev/Bivol (#1 and #2 ranked by The Ring) could both be beaten by THE TITLE-HOLDER Stevenson neither could lay claim to being undisputed/lineal by beating the other same with Canelo/Golovkin at 160, and Saunders

Lineage is to determine who's the best at given division without taking real belts into consideration. It's determined by two highest ranked (not necessarily by alphabet orgs) fighting each other. You can't be that stupid to not understand this. no its not you muppet, GTFOH :lol1: lineage has nothing to do with your opinion, nor anyone elses opinion looool why did you make that up :lol1:

don't be a fukwit kid, I have been saying that since the beginning seriously, who cares Lineage is to determine who's the best at given division without taking real belts into consideration. It's determined by two highest ranked (not necessarily by alphabet orgs) fighting each other. You can't be that stupid to not understand this.

Lineal is not a real title you tool, it's fan made just for fun, you have absolutely no idea what you talking about son :lol1: don't be a fukwit kid, I have been saying that since the beginning seriously, who cares

you cannot have one without the other kid when you learn that you will stop embarrassing yourself lineage is NOT opinion, and it is not a Ring award.... lineage is real Lineal is not a real title you tool, it's fan made just for fun, you have absolutely no idea what you talking about son :lol1: