A brief chronology of lineal heavyweight champions

The Ring HW champ has always been considered the lineal champ. That was the case for a very long time, but hasn't been the case for a while. When Ring started allowing 1 vs 3, 2 vs 5 etc to fill vacancies, their tite and the lineal title philisophically became very different things. Ring itself admits this as they dont recognize Fury as Ring champ, but do recognize him as lineal champ. So how can you say they are the same thing when Ring itself says they are different things?

They'll need to update this soon. BBBOOOMMMBBB SSSQQQUUUAAADDD!!! Why you think Wilder and Joshua will fight each other or Fury soon?

That's not how words work. I never said GBP owned it in 2004. I listed their ownership as a reason many disregard the title. That is separate from the fact that Ring and lineal have nothing to do with each other. Adonis Stevenson is the lineal champion. He's not the Ring champion. Different things. Ha ha ha, keep diggin that hole. You clearly discredited The Ring rankings and title in 2004 for something that occurred way later. Just because the publication was bleeding money and had to sell doesn't automatically mean it was never credible. The Ring HW champ has always been considered the lineal champ. You can go verify that all you like. It's been that way for about 100 years starting with Dempsey. Vitali Klitschko was the lineal champion and nothing you say changes it. Just because bias people like Cliff Rold want to go back and discredit it over a decade later doesn't change a damn thing. I lived those days as a boxing fan and as a Klitschko fan , I remember it vividly. You can't change facts. I know media, etc. tries to do that regularly now, but you can't convince people who experienced things. ESPN used to have a timeline of the lineal heavyweight championship posted for years and Vitali was on it. You're bias and that's clear so you're done. Bye. Been good educating you.

The Ring wasn't owned by Golden Boy in 2004 so keep telling yourself that because that's what you want to believe. That's not how words work. I never said GBP owned it in 2004. I listed their ownership as a reason many disregard the title. That is separate from the fact that Ring and lineal have nothing to do with each other. Adonis Stevenson is the lineal champion. He's not the Ring champion. Different things.

you are free to value the ring title if you choose. but its not the lineal title. two different things. ring is owned by golden boy. its a biased publication owned by a promoter. nobody credible takes it seriously anymore, but even if you choose to take it seriously, it has nothing to do with lineal anymore. The Ring wasn't owned by Golden Boy in 2004 so keep telling yourself that because that's what you want to believe.

Aj N wilder need to fight, this back n forth is becoming annoying

They assigned the Ring title. That's a distinction for the ONE AND ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP. you are free to value the ring title if you choose. but its not the lineal title. two different things. ring is owned by golden boy. its a biased publication owned by a promoter. nobody credible takes it seriously anymore, but even if you choose to take it seriously, it has nothing to do with lineal anymore.

rummy is absolutely incredible. a must sub if you at all care about the history of the sport. the guy is solid gold. opinions are opinions, and called them. mostly the guy is a documentarian and a boxing scholar / historian. love it. He's a good singer too, don't forget.

The ring title isn't the lineal title. #1 vs #3 doesn't fill a lineal vacancy, but can fill a ring vacancy. Try to provide a credible source that tracks the lineal title that lists Vitali. You won't be able to. CBZ, Wikipedia, etc. Vitali nowhere to be seen. I'm sorry you were unaware that ring and lineal are different things. That's your problem. They assigned the Ring title. That's a distinction for the ONE AND ONLY HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMP. That's how it's done when the previous champion retires. Ring was the authority at the time. Nothing you say will change it. It's not about an opinion chief. This is a FACT that happened. The End.

Vitali won the Ring title by beating Corrie Sanders. That reestablished lineage. The end. The ring title isn't the lineal title. #1 vs #3 doesn't fill a lineal vacancy, but can fill a ring vacancy. Try to provide a credible source that tracks the lineal title that lists Vitali. You won't be able to. CBZ, Wikipedia, etc. Vitali nowhere to be seen. I'm sorry you were unaware that ring and lineal are different things. That's your problem.

Yes they are. Lineal vacancy can only be filled by #1 vs. #2. Magazine vacancy can be filled by #2 vs. #5. Lineal title can't be stripped for political reasons, it's only the man who beat the man. Magazine title can be stripped for not facing one of the magazine's mandatories. I understand you're just a fan and you are a little confused about the magazine belt. That's fine. But when somebody better educated comes along, somebody who studies this stuff for a living, you should do a little more research before you tell me I'm wrong. I'm just trying to help you out. You have no idea what you're talking about. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Ring Magazine had Corrie Sanders rated #3, but because magazine title and lineal title have nothing to do with each other, Vitali vs. Sanders was for the magazine title, but not the lineal title. Vitali was never lineal champion. Wladimir re-established lineage against Chagaev, not Pulev. Stop posting false information please. Vitali won the Ring title by beating Corrie Sanders. That reestablished lineage. The end.

rummy is absolutely incredible. a must sub if you at all care about the history of the sport. the guy is solid gold. opinions are opinions, and called them. mostly the guy is a documentarian and a boxing scholar / historian. love it. I remember him from E@STSIDEBOXING..

rummy is absolutely incredible. a must sub if you at all care about the history of the sport. the guy is solid gold. opinions are opinions, and called them. mostly the guy is a documentarian and a boxing scholar / historian. love it.

That Lewis Briggs fight was friggin' awesome!!!

The logic is quite simple to follow? The Hammer fight was an eliminator for the fight against Wlad. He tested positive and the eliminator should've gone to Hammer. His performance in Dusseldorf was the highpoint of his career but it was built on the fruit of the poisonous tree and is tainted even if he cleared testing on the night itself. Although I know some boxing fans don't care about the use of PED's in the sport so maybe this is also your position? It's the man who beat the man. Had Wlad-Fury been changed to a no contest due to a test failure, you'd have a point. Arguing that Fury didn't deserve the title shot is irrelevant.

Clearly he has a claim since the majority, including Ring magazine, recognize him as lineal champion. He's the man who beat the man. The only debate is whether he vacated or not, and you're never going to get a clear consensus on that because any hypothetical vacancy was never filled while he was away. 'Legitimate' claim 'in my opinion' The second point I don't care much about but he did clearly announce his retirement from boxing. Your logic couldn't possibly be more ridiculous. He tested clean for the Wlad fight. Nobody other than you is trying to take that win away from him. Nice try. The logic is quite simple to follow? The Hammer fight was an eliminator for the fight against Wlad. He tested positive and the eliminator should've gone to Hammer. His performance in Dusseldorf was the highpoint of his career but it was built on the fruit of the poisonous tree and is tainted even if he cleared testing on the night itself. Although I know some boxing fans don't care about the use of PED's in the sport so maybe this is also your position? What buck does Ring magazine stand to make off of it? Ring is hopelessly compromised, its decisions subject to outside influence as the Canelo affair illustrated recently. Is there corruption in this decision? Is there a benefit, maybe repaid indirectly on another occasion? Very difficult to establish, but you surely understand how the game is played?

I agree with yours points above. I personally don’t consider him a lineal champion anymore. His marketing team are for sure gonna press on it though as it’s their strongest sell. For me we are so close to a full unification that in my eyes that is the fight which will make the next lineal Then Hearn should have made the fight before Fury came back. Now it's too late. The public isn't going to recognize a unification as establishing new lineage when Fury is active, especially if Fury agrees to fight a top fighter like Wilder or AJ. Had Fury just kept fighting tomato cans for 5-6 fights in a row, there would have been more urgency to find a way to pretend he wasn't lineal champion anymore, but with him likely facing Wilder this year, pretty much everybody is going to recognize it as a lineal title fight. Again, even Ring magazine is referring to it as a fight for the lineal title, even though they stripped Fury of the magazine title.

Everyone favored Vitali to Wladimir, so it was lame when Wladimir was so desperately anointed lineal champion. But my personal opinion or your personal opinion doesn't change the facts. Wladimir was able to gain a consensus to recognize him as lineal champion, and thus, he became lineal champion. I personally believed the lineal title should have been recognized as vacant the second Fury tweeted that he was retired, but the consensus is that he's still lineal champion. My opinion or your opinion doesn't matter. Even Ring Magazine still refers to Tyson Fury as the lineal champion, further confirming that Ring Magazine realizes their title has nothing to do with the lineal title anymore. I agree with yours points above. I personally don’t consider him a lineal champion anymore. His marketing team are for sure gonna press on it though as it’s their strongest sell. For me we are so close to a full unification that in my eyes that is the fight which will make the next lineal

No they're not completely different. Yes they are. Lineal vacancy can only be filled by #1 vs. #2. Magazine vacancy can be filled by #2 vs. #5. Lineal title can't be stripped for political reasons, it's only the man who beat the man. Magazine title can be stripped for not facing one of the magazine's mandatories. I understand you're just a fan and you are a little confused about the magazine belt. That's fine. But when somebody better educated comes along, somebody who studies this stuff for a living, you should do a little more research before you tell me I'm wrong. I'm just trying to help you out. You have no idea what you're talking about. The Ring title was reassigned (and lineage) to Vitali because he was no.1 and beat no.2, just the way Wladimir reestablished lineage by beating Pulev. Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Ring Magazine had Corrie Sanders rated #3, but because magazine title and lineal title have nothing to do with each other, Vitali vs. Sanders was for the magazine title, but not the lineal title. Vitali was never lineal champion. Wladimir re-established lineage against Chagaev, not Pulev. Stop posting false information please.

The Ring don't recognise Fury as the lineal champion, and have stated repeatedly only Joshua/Wilder would be for lineal. You're confusing the lineal and magazine titles. They have nothing to do with each other. Ring recognizes Fury as lineal champion, but doesn't recognize him as magazine champion. https://www.******.com/540520-deontay-wilder-tyson-fury-fight-definitely-gonna-happen-theres-no-doubt/ But now, Wilder is inching closer to another super fight: a bout with lineal champion Tyson Fury in December that would take place in Las Vegas and be broadcast on Showtime Pay-Per-View.