We should stop overrating undefeated fighters: Canelo has the best record in boxing

I'll show you guys something I came across. This is mainly why I picked GGG to win the first bout was because of the dominance of his victories (other than Jacobs whom I assumed to be exceptionally tough, talented). He didn't dominate Canelo though either. Al Bernstein 114-114 Steve Farhood 114-113 Alvarez Paulie Malignaggi 115-114 Alvarez James Foley (Bad Left Hook): 115-112 Alvarez Patrick Connor (Queensbury Rules): 117-110 Trout Kory Kitchen (Bad Left Hook): 115-112 Alvarez Cliff Rold (Boxing Scene): 116-111 Trout Bart Barry (15 Rounds): 115-114 Alvarez Lee Wylie (The Sweet Science): 115-112 Trout Jake Donovan (Boxing Scene): 115-112 Alvarez Brian Campbell (ESPN): 115-112 Trout Adam Abramowitz (Saturday Night Boxing) 115-112 Alvarez Mark Ortega (******): 114-113 Trout John Whisler (San Antonio Express-News): 117-110 Alvarez Lem Satterfield (******): 114-113 Trout Michael Rosenthal (******): 114-113 Alvarez Tom Gray (Seconds Out): 114-113 Trout Bob Velin (USA Today): 114-113 Alvarez Tim Dahlberg (Associated Press): 114-113 Alvarez Steve Zemach (Queensbury Rules): 114-113 Trout Alex McClintock (Queensbury Rules): 115-112 Alvarez Ryan Maquinana (Boxing Scene): 114-113 Trout Dan Rafael (ESPN): 114-113 Alvarez Steve Lillis (BoxNation): 115-114 Trout Ryan Burton (Boxing Scene): 115-112 Alvarez Raymond Markarian (The Sweet Science): 115-112 Trout Paul Magno (Boxing Tribune): 114-113 Alvarez Stephen Smith (British fighter): 115-114 Trout Ishe Smith (American fighter): 116-111 Alvarez

I'm tired of all the bullsht out there and all the hype trains (Spence, Crawford, Loma). The best record (quality, quantity) in boxing is Canelo (def not Crawford): Baldomir Mosley Cintron Lil Cotto Big Cotto Lara Trout Chavez Jr Kirkland Kahn Smith Golovkin (Draw) Mayweather (Loss) For sure, some were washed up fighters, some decisions were close fights (that's what happens when you're not fighting average opposition) Hell, even Danny Garcia got a better record than most guys on current P4P list. Seems like once a fighter take a L he's not in the mix anymore. Ok, lets get rid of those first 4 names, that was a joke right? He then lost to Cotto imo and in the opinions of some but let's take that as a win because officially, it is. He also lost to Lara and Trout in the opinions of many, I felt he deserved the win in both. That's 3 contentious wins. Junior, Kirkland and Smith are a joke again, right? Khan is irrelevant at the weight, plus Canelo lost at 3 rounds and was soundly outboxed by the much smaller guy. Now we come to one of the few fights in Canelos career that had any divisional importance, GGG. According to almost everyone he lost, not only that, his own Mexican fans booed him. Can't even begin to label it a draw. Finally, he was soundly beaten by lil boy floy. So apart from beating has-beens and journeymen, he doesn't have a single non contentious win over another top fighter. That is not all that impressive.

Easy to be a critics. I just said he has the best record in boxing. If you disagree, who has a better one? I'm still waiting. Don't bring pacquiao and Roy, they are not truly active relevant fighters. Haha how are you gonna ask then say we can't use certain fighters. If they aren't retired then they can be used. Lara and Trout are his best wins with the Lara win being questionable. Crawford's resume is just as good, heck Garcia's is as well. Has Canelo ever fought and beat anyone considered "the man" in his division? He lost to Floyd and was fortunate to get the draw vs GGG. Garcia beat Khan when he was the man at 140 (when Bradley didn't want it and chased Pacquiao) as well as Lucas when he was knocking fools out left and right. I like Canelo but his resume is overrated. The 2 best guys he has faced he lost to(although he was given draw vs Golovkin). Come to think of it, a ref tried to give him a draw vs Floyd :lol1:

I have to be honest, I think Canelo got a gift decision VS Lara and GGG. He is a very, very good MW but he could easily have 2 or 3 defeats on his resume. He is protected by Golden Boy - you don't upset the money train.

The Trout bout could have gone either way which the official scorecards failed to represent. Edit ^^yeah I suppose the Lara bout could have also but I forgave that because I favored Canelo's style in that bout. I agree with you to a degree. The Trout bout was much closer than the cards showed, and that surprised me. I saw it no wider than the single 115-112 card. And I expected Canelo to steamroll through Trout's relatively light punches and score a mid-round knockout. However, I was too far on the Canelo hype-train at the time and probably overrated him going into the Trout fight. Even so, I definitely thought Canelo won a close one, all due respect to Trout for overperforming. I actually thought it was the Lara fight that Canelo could have easily lost. Lara is so damned awkward and used that to whack a more sedentary Canelo than we've seen recently with surprising regularity. I thought Lara deserved a close decision against Paul Williams as well. Though Lara's style is rather visually unappealing, so I certainly get why he doesn't get close nods against higher-profile opponents.

What this guy said^^^^^ Trout is probably his best win. That Lara fight was horrible, nobody deserved to win that fight. Easy to be a critics. I just said he has the best record in boxing. If you disagree, who has a better one? I'm still waiting. Don't bring pacquiao and Roy, they are not truly active relevant fighters.

Baldomir- really? Mosley- shot to ****, nothing left. Cintron- really? Lil Cotto- really? Big Cotto- said at the time it wasnt a great win, looks even worse after saddam ali put a clinic on him soon after. Lara- very controversial although a good win in my eyes Trout- close fight, good win but is trout really anything special? Chavez Jr- come on man Kirkland- glass chin, ishidas leftovers Kahn- glass chin, came up two weight classes. Smith- really? i know you can nitpick most fighters cv's but dont tell me thats an amazing list of wins. He looked like ****e in his last fight too What this guy said^^^^^ Trout is probably his best win. That Lara fight was horrible, nobody deserved to win that fight.

I'm tired of all the bullsht out there and all the hype trains (Spence, Crawford, Loma). The best record (quality, quantity) in boxing is Canelo (def not Crawford): Baldomir Mosley Cintron Lil Cotto Big Cotto Lara Trout Chavez Jr Kirkland Kahn Smith Golovkin (Draw) Mayweather (Loss) For sure, some were washed up fighters, some decisions were close fights (that's what happens when you're not fighting average opposition) Hell, even Danny Garcia got a better record than most guys on current P4P list. Seems like once a fighter take a L he's not in the mix anymore. Crawford has no business being called a P4P with his resume needs Spence, Thurman or Garcia. Loma. Is. One big fight win over Mikey Garcia.

Do the same with Pacquiao same criteria include coming off loss in last 1-2 fights, moving up in weight or catch weight, opponent moving down in weight they have not fought in for years, newly created belt and if fought less threatening, rated champ at that given time and wow us all.

Well lets take a look at fighters in his weight class. GGG - Canelo(draw), Lemieux, Jacobs, Brook, Monroe Jr., Stevens, Murray, Ishida Canelo- GGG(draw), Cotto, Trout,Lara, Angulo, Kirkland, Smith, Khan, JCC jr. Saunders - Eubank Jr., O'Sullivan, Lee, Monroe, Lemieux, and now fighting Murry. I don't see a difference at all with fighters in his own weight class. I do see a difference. Some of those guys Canelo fought were at catch weights. They had to fight at Canelo's preferred weight which was over the JM limit. The Catchweight with Chavez fight really drained Chavez who was drained down to a dead man walking for the fight. Khan who was a Welterweight and started his career as a lightweight and had been stopped as a lightweight had to fight Canelo at a catchweight above the JM limit. Canelo couldn't make weight for the Angulo fight and had to pay a fine. So whether you personally think catchweight fights are OK is up to you. I think it's not OK.

Pacquiao has 3 KO losses...you gonna tell me Canelo has a better resume? Yeah, but he has better wins than Nelo on the other side, Kahn doesn't.

Canelo is respected and highly regarded. Danny Garcia fought good opposition up to Matthysse. After Matthysse he turned cherry picker except for his fight with Thurman which he lost and his fight with Peterson which he just barely won. Spence absolutely slaughtered Peterson and KOed Brook. He would be a big favorite to beat Garcia. Spence,Crawford and Loma are all excellent fighters with the wins to prove it. Everybody thinks they are excellent except you. Apparently you have poor taste in boxers with the exception of Canelo who most rank near the top. after matthysse garcia havent been the same

A hair beneath with 3 ko losses?????? C'mon bro FFS Pacquiao has 3 KO losses...you gonna tell me Canelo has a better resume?

I don't duck questions, so there's no need for all-caps. What you failed to recognize is that I am playing devil's advocate here. I don't honestly believe that Khan is a better fighter than Alvarez, but, his resume is just a hair beneath. Wins over Judah, Maidana, Alexander, Malignaggi and Collazo are certainly almost as good as wins over a faded Baldomir who was never great to begin with, faded Mosley, much smaller Cotto and Lara & Trout. A hair beneath with 3 ko losses?????? C'mon bro FFS

Baldomir- really? Mosley- shot to ****, nothing left. Cintron- really? Lil Cotto- really? Big Cotto- said at the time it wasnt a great win, looks even worse after saddam ali put a clinic on him soon after. Lara- very controversial although a good win in my eyes Trout- close fight, good win but is trout really anything special? Chavez Jr- come on man Kirkland- glass chin, ishidas leftovers Kahn- glass chin, came up two weight classes. Smith- really? i know you can nitpick most fighters cv's but dont tell me thats an amazing list of wins. He looked like ****e in his last fight too I didn't but who has a better record in boxing? I'm waiting on it. You can bring up Manny but I mean dude is at least partially retired.

In boxing the "eye test" matters more than anything

Thats fair. Context is in play. I just hate when cats use context for this guy, but not this other guy or they don't even get into other guys at all they just wanna break this one guys balls while ignoring who's on par or better lmfao. Thats fair. I wouldn't argue against any of this too hard & anything I did take issue with would be nitpicking. I agree I am sometimes guilty of that too and I am fine if people call me out on that, we all have biases but some of us don't acknowledge that bias (a handful of people on this website).

Then who has a better resume in boxing? DON T DUCK THE QUESTION PLEASE? I don't duck questions, so there's no need for all-caps. What you failed to recognize is that I am playing devil's advocate here. I don't honestly believe that Khan is a better fighter than Alvarez, but, his resume is just a hair beneath. Wins over Judah, Maidana, Alexander, Malignaggi and Collazo are certainly almost as good as wins over a faded Baldomir who was never great to begin with, faded Mosley, much smaller Cotto and Lara & Trout.

It's a tough one Canelo definitely has the best resumes out there as far as names go, but as far as quality challenges at the time the fights took place I would put it in the top 5 because for me context is everything. The best 5 resumes of current active fighters who fought quality over the last few years (leaving Paqiou out because his resume is insane but most of what he has done isn't recent.) In no particular order Canelo ( a lot of names but only a few good fighters in their prime that he got the official W) Lomachenko (Prime GRJ and NW, as well as Rigo) Usyk or Gassiev (who ever wins) but at this point Usyk Golovkin ( a lot of Decent fighters, 2 A level in Jacobs and Canelo) Crawford (has a lot of decent fighters on the resume but nothing markee) Notable mentions; Keith Thurman, Anthony Joshua

Okay I understand your stance on Canelo. And I'm not calling you sh^t except like all the rest in these types of conversations who focus on how not sh^t whoever is vs claiming who is the sh^t. So again I ask WHO ARE YOU IMPRESSED WITH more than Canelo resume-wise when it comes to quality + quantity. Well lets take a look at fighters in his weight class. GGG - Canelo(draw), Lemieux, Jacobs, Brook, Monroe Jr., Stevens, Murray, Ishida Canelo- GGG(draw), Cotto, Trout,Lara, Angulo, Kirkland, Smith, Khan, JCC jr. Saunders - Eubank Jr., O'Sullivan, Lee, Monroe, Lemieux, and now fighting Murry. I don't see a difference at all with fighters in his own weight class.