Why do American Fighters Keep Ducking?

al haymon pays his guys even when they don't fight. common knowledge. they're not hungry any more. they get a lot of money to fight cans, or to step away from titles. why challenge yourself or the fighter you manage when you don't have to? the real blame goes to the premium networks. they buy the big fights. they allowed pacquiao and mayweather to be the biggest fight of all time in spite of the fact that the fighters pushed each other off until both were past their best. hell, manny had been out knocked out cold already, and they still made more money than god.

Ward 2-0 Kovalev :bottle: https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/679/807/hi-res-55012a3911423fbb6c0bc880d465c2bd_crop_north.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top Kigali is that you?

Or rather, why do they take so long to fight the best? It really is a modern trend, starting with Mayweather's rise in 07 and his successful dodging of Pac from 09-14. Every American, or rather most, American fighters think that is the way to go now. I want this to be a serious discussion, taking into account the likes of Thurman, Ward, Wilder, Mikey and co. They either have problems, or rather excuses about money or contracts or promoters. Sadly, the modern US tv and fan environment has allowed these problems to get worse. Take Wilder for example. He won his title in 2014 and since then has not faced a single legitimate challenger. The closest he came was Szpilka, who was soundly outboxing him round after round. Wilder's excuses throughout, especially against Joshua, have ranged from money to time to location. Showtime and certain fan demographics have supported him throughout. AJ won his first title in 2016 and has already fought a legend in Wlad and a legit contender in Takam. Now he is about to unify...Wilder hasnt come close to that in 4 years. Khan at 140 unified and defended his belts against the best the division had to offer, all before the age of 25. Thurman is almost 30 and has only had 2 fights at the highest level. Loma, Usyk, Canelo and plenty of others based outside of the US and/or not American have done similar things. Wh are American fighters always ducking? Ward 2-0 Kovalev :bottle: https://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/679/807/hi-res-55012a3911423fbb6c0bc880d465c2bd_crop_north.jpg?h=533&w=800&q=70&crop_x=center&crop_y=top

Anyway, that is all in the past, why havent the charlos, lara and andrade fought each other? what about hurd? most of these guys are with the same management/promote/network, those fights should be as easy to make as pac/cotto/bradley and now pac/horn/tc. The latter is one of the few american fighters who hasnt ducked anyone thus far. Why is it so easy for the european heavyweights and cruiserweights to all fight each other? The same can not be said for America nfighters. If you can refute what I've said, I'm all ears but please stop bringing up may/pac ad naesum.

Don't you get tired of the literal shlt that you keep vomiting? 1. All you've heard was Wilder saying he wanted the fight. He was much more vocal calling for it than Joshua. 2. Pacquiao claims he needed 24 days to recover from giving a tablespoon of blood. You left that out. Also left out how his dad blamed his side for the fight not happening. 3. Ward moved up and fought Kovalev. Twice. You're an embarrassment. I have no reason to lie, so I'm curious why you're lying? Wilder turned down the fight twice and it is well documented. Heck he even went on his insta or twitter or whatever to rant about it. He's been vocal because he wants to sell his fight with Ortiz, beyond that he refused to fight the 2 fight deal or even the one fight deal, whereas Parker jumped at the shot. The Pac situation is once again, very well documented. All testing could go ahead apart from bloods at the weigh in. It is because Pac felt it weakened him before the Morales fight. He was more than happy to provide his urine at any time and to provide his blood sample after the fight. Mayweather rejected all that and only wanted things his way, which never happened in 2015 anyway, so why was he so adamant years before? All the while, just like Wilder, lil boy floy used Pacs name to sell fights with Ortiz, Guerrero, Maidana etc etc etc. This is the truth, what you're typing is a lie and I have no understanding of what you set to gain from it.

The rampant inactivity is driving fans crazy more than anything else. The Charlo sisters fight every seven effing months. No injuries no nothing. Jermell's last fight lasted for, what, 5 seconds? He should have fought again the next day. And he's fighting again when, June? And they're still undercards to everyone else.

The rampant inactivity is driving fans crazy more than anything else. The Charlo sisters fight every seven effing months. No injuries no nothing. Jermell's last fight lasted for, what, 5 seconds? He should have fought again the next day. And he's fighting again when, June? The fact that all these guys at 154, promoted by the same guy wont even fight each other is shameful.

The rampant inactivity is driving fans crazy more than anything else. The Charlo sisters fight every seven effing months. No injuries no nothing. Jermell's last fight lasted for, what, 5 seconds? He should have fought again the next day. And he's fighting again when, June?

CBS can easily put up the money and air the fight on their network in prime time. If it is on PPV in the US, I'm sure it will sell enough for AJ to get that. AJ/wlad made $9.9 mil US in gate receipts from a record 90,000 crowd. The live gate will be more in Vegas. The UK PPV was $16.95. You can make it $20 for the fight. There was no US PPV. If it does a measly 300k on PPV @$50 there is more revenue right there. Again, I completely understand why AJ would want to fight in Wembley. However, if he wants to make the most money and be a true international star, then he will fight in Vegas. Either way I'm fine. Frankly, it would be better for Wilder to KHTFO in front of dregs like you. A Hagler/Minter or Spence/Brook destruction would be epic. What the hell is CBS ??? It sounds like a cheap channel.It would be the equivalent of AJ/Wilder on BBC in the UK.Why the hell would AJ/Hearn agree to go onto a Random Free to Air American channel you thicko.They will demand PPV from Showtime to bring AJ over as that is the only way Commercially it is viable.You dont make sense about AJ becoming a international star.Except for Wilder who is their to fight in the US you FOOL.Their are no American Heavyweights bar Wilder.All of them are UK Aligned and make much more sense Here.No it wont be a repeat of Spence/Brook because AJ is not coming off from a Weightcut or Surgery.Americans never mention this,your boys take the fights when either the oppo is too old/Injured/or weight cut.Joshua Wilder will be like Joshua/Martin,Bird legs going to leave London with him taking a dump in the middle of the ring

You have completely lost the plot. You keep going off of hypotheticals but name me a single fight in the US, heavyweight ofc, since the Lewis/Tyson/Holy era that has made fighters even a fraction of the money Wlad/Haye did, let alone Wlad/AJ. One fight. Plus you keep talking like Wilder is a star in the US. He isn't so why should he sell in Vegas or anywhere else? The guy has never even come close to selling a ppv, yet he is supposed to demand location, money and purse against AJ? On top of all that, you have gone entirely off topic. The premise is simple, why is it so difficult for some American fighters to make consistently top level fights against top level opponents when compared to others. Why has Widler never unified in 4 years while AJ did in his first? Why won't Thurman fight Spence yet the Brook/Spence fight was easily made? How come all the top cruisers can fight each other on a regular basis but the top light middles cant or rather, wont? Answer those questions and stop banging on about why you think Vegas is still the biggest place for HW boxing, when there has been no proof of that in 15+ years. These Americans man....... Crack me up.This guy's like the 100th person to go crazy over Spence beating Brook,they go mad and are so patrotic,it's funny when they try to hide it but they are so into patroism but continually act like they dont,it hurts the Ego's.

You have completely lost the plot. You keep going off of hypotheticals but name me a single fight in the US, heavyweight ofc, since the Lewis/Tyson/Holy era that has made fighters even a fraction of the money Wlad/Haye did, let alone Wlad/AJ. One fight. Plus you keep talking like Wilder is a star in the US. He isn't so why should he sell in Vegas or anywhere else? The guy has never even come close to selling a ppv, yet he is supposed to demand location, money and purse against AJ? On top of all that, you have gone entirely off topic. The premise is simple, why is it so difficult for some American fighters to make consistently top level fights against top level opponents when compared to others. Why has Widler never unified in 4 years while AJ did in his first? Why won't Thurman fight Spence yet the Brook/Spence fight was easily made? How come all the top cruisers can fight each other on a regular basis but the top light middles cant or rather, wont? Answer those questions and stop banging on about why you think Vegas is still the biggest place for HW boxing, when there has been no proof of that in 15+ years. The division was trash and the champ was too scared to come back after he got KTFO by a low level bum. That is why there were no big HWT fights in vegas. I already acknowledged that point was solid. I have repeatedly said AJ is the bigger star and draw. Never once did I say it had to be in vegas. I posted it should be his choice where the fight is. There is no way you missed these points unless you simply can't read. AJ didn't unify, he fought wlad that was unified, then chose the easier unification fight, Parker, rather than the tougher one, Wilder, who is fighting Ortiz who is considered better than Parker. Thurman has been out hurt. Stupid question. The CW are is a WsBB series the LHW's are not. Kov withdrew from the mando spot instead of fighting Adonis. Adonis signed with SHO the year before. You know all this so these questions are silly. What more proof is needeed? As I said Wlad not coming back doesn't mean Vegas lost its spot, it just means wlad was a coward that didn't want to come back to the place he got KTFO. You can't keep avoiding the fact that big fights are bigger in Vegas, except of course if its Wlad who came to Vegas and got KTFO by a bum.

CBS can easily put up the money and air the fight on their network in prime time. If it is on PPV in the US, I'm sure it will sell enough for AJ to get that. AJ/wlad made $9.9 mil US in gate receipts from a record 90,000 crowd. The live gate will be more in Vegas. The UK PPV was $16.95. You can make it $20 for the fight. There was no US PPV. If it does a measly 300k on PPV @$50 there is more revenue right there. Again, I completely understand why AJ would want to fight in Wembley. However, if he wants to make the most money and be a true international star, then he will fight in Vegas. Either way I'm fine. Frankly, it would be better for Wilder to KHTFO in front of dregs like you. A Hagler/Minter or Spence/Brook destruction would be epic. You have completely lost the plot. You keep going off of hypotheticals but name me a single fight in the US, heavyweight ofc, since the Lewis/Tyson/Holy era that has made fighters even a fraction of the money Wlad/Haye did, let alone Wlad/AJ. One fight. Plus you keep talking like Wilder is a star in the US. He isn't so why should he sell in Vegas or anywhere else? The guy has never even come close to selling a ppv, yet he is supposed to demand location, money and purse against AJ? On top of all that, you have gone entirely off topic. The premise is simple, why is it so difficult for some American fighters to make consistently top level fights against top level opponents when compared to others. Why has Widler never unified in 4 years while AJ did in his first? Why won't Thurman fight Spence yet the Brook/Spence fight was easily made? How come all the top cruisers can fight each other on a regular basis but the top light middles cant or rather, wont? Answer those questions and stop banging on about why you think Vegas is still the biggest place for HW boxing, when there has been no proof of that in 15+ years.

AJ/Wilder has to be PPV in America you idiot.That is the only way AJ can come over their given he makes 10-15M in the UK.What other way can Showtime put up the money ?? Stephen Espinoza had publicly said the only way to bring Joshua over is through a PPV in the US.But then the discussion goes back to will Wilder/AJ do good numbers in Vegas ??? I dont think it will,just keep that fight in the UK,Wembley.Maybe Sky should raise the PPV Price in the UK for that one off fight and Hearn should increase the Wembley ticket Prices by 30-50%.Waste and huge risk to let this fight happen in the US on PPV.Deontay is probably known more in the UK than in the US which sums up the attention of this fight in the States.Now Mayweather is gone i dont think their is a PPV Fighter who is American.Canelo and GGG are of course the two foreign stars.However GGG is getting old only Canelo Left.PPV is a dying art and Boxing needs to get off premium channels for it to get casual intrest again.Their's only a certain few like Mayweather and Mcgregor who can break that barrier CBS can easily put up the money and air the fight on their network in prime time. If it is on PPV in the US, I'm sure it will sell enough for AJ to get that. AJ/wlad made $9.9 mil US in gate receipts from a record 90,000 crowd. The live gate will be more in Vegas. The UK PPV was $16.95. You can make it $20 for the fight. There was no US PPV. If it does a measly 300k on PPV @$50 there is more revenue right there. Again, I completely understand why AJ would want to fight in Wembley. However, if he wants to make the most money and be a true international star, then he will fight in Vegas. Either way I'm fine. Frankly, it would be better for Wilder to KHTFO in front of dregs like you. A Hagler/Minter or Spence/Brook destruction would be epic.

It was the story of Margaritos career. Chicken Mayweather crapped his pants and retired instead of facing him. I mean even that knee taking sissy Cotto fought Margarito. Mayweather is the biggest coward of all time :rofl:

Which is why i stated in the last paragraph, "I am not saying Joshua has to stay in Vegas." I don't know that AJ/Wilder has to be on PPV in the US. It can be on PPV in the UK and AJ should get the majority of the cut, at least 80%. Ward and Kov are not HWT's for ****s sake. I agree on Fury.. Whyte is regional fighter so yeah that would be in the UK. In a year or so, Big Baby could be a marketable fight, if he keeps winning, that AJ might want to do in the US. AJ/Wilder has to be PPV in America you idiot.That is the only way AJ can come over their given he makes 10-15M in the UK.What other way can Showtime put up the money ?? Stephen Espinoza had publicly said the only way to bring Joshua over is through a PPV in the US.But then the discussion goes back to will Wilder/AJ do good numbers in Vegas ??? I dont think it will,just keep that fight in the UK,Wembley.Maybe Sky should raise the PPV Price in the UK for that one off fight and Hearn should increase the Wembley ticket Prices by 30-50%.Waste and huge risk to let this fight happen in the US on PPV.Deontay is probably known more in the UK than in the US which sums up the attention of this fight in the States.Now Mayweather is gone i dont think their is a PPV Fighter who is American.Canelo and GGG are of course the two foreign stars.However GGG is getting old only Canelo Left.PPV is a dying art and Boxing needs to get off premium channels for it to get casual intrest again.Their's only a certain few like Mayweather and Mcgregor who can break that barrier

I think you are vastly wrong on the fact that AJ can become a star in America.Except for Wilder the rest of the opponents are suited for the UK Audience.AJ and Wilder are barely stars in America,if Wilder the American Fighter dosent do more than 1 Million views on Showtime how the hell will this get strong PPV Numbers in the US.Ward-Kovalev done 300K(poor)and they are both known well and it was on HBO.Boxing is a dying sport in the US.Lewis comparison is wrong,Tyson was the Star of the division in those times for Americans and as soon as he retired,the intrest went from America in the HW Divison.Their is no point going to the US just for one fight,Miller and Wilder who else ?? UK however,Fury,Dubois,Whyte 2,Povetkin etc.Lewis never got the credit in the US anyway,he was slaughtered by the US Media and fans for his style and the fact he wasnt American.Joshua alluded to this and said it dosent add anything to his legacy fighting their,he knocks out Wilder people will quickly forget about it,and dismiss Wilder as a bum and said AJ got lucky he's in a poor divison compared to the 90's.We all know how the US Fans and Media works like>>>>> Which is why i stated in the last paragraph, "I am not saying Joshua has to stay in Vegas." I don't know that AJ/Wilder has to be on PPV in the US. It can be on PPV in the UK and AJ should get the majority of the cut, at least 80%. Ward and Kov are not HWT's for ****s sake. I agree on Fury.. Whyte is regional fighter so yeah that would be in the UK. In a year or so, Big Baby could be a marketable fight, if he keeps winning, that AJ might want to do in the US.

Dude, think for a second. That is a Wlad issue, it in no way means Vegas isn't the fight capital of the world. He fought Mccline, Shufford and Brewster (ko loss) then the Williamson debacle and he never went back to Vegas. Obviously US fans didn't hold him in as high regard as eastern european fans after getting KTFO by a lower level fighter so I can understand why he stayed away. AJ, like Lewis, is a special talent that US fans will love. Put him in with Wilder, where people think there will be an explosive KO, and that will draw fans and be a huge event. Yes, the HWT division was weak for a LOOOONGGGGG time. Now the division has real interest. Take advantage of this now. I am not saying Joshua has to stay in Vegas. Obviously, if he wins and fights Fury you wouldn't put that fight in Vegas given its a battle between to English fighters. I think you are vastly wrong on the fact that AJ can become a star in America.Except for Wilder the rest of the opponents are suited for the UK Audience.AJ and Wilder are barely stars in America,if Wilder the American Fighter dosent do more than 1 Million views on Showtime how the hell will this get strong PPV Numbers in the US.Ward-Kovalev done 300K(poor)and they are both known well and it was on HBO.Boxing is a dying sport in the US.Lewis comparison is wrong,Tyson was the Star of the division in those times for Americans and as soon as he retired,the intrest went from America in the HW Divison.Their is no point going to the US just for one fight,Miller and Wilder who else ?? UK however,Fury,Dubois,Whyte 2,Povetkin etc.Lewis never got the credit in the US anyway,he was slaughtered by the US Media and fans for his style and the fact he wasnt American.Joshua alluded to this and said it dosent add anything to his legacy fighting their,he knocks out Wilder people will quickly forget about it,and dismiss Wilder as a bum and said AJ got lucky he's in a poor divison compared to the 90's.We all know how the US Fans and Media works like>>>>>

Why the hell do Americans love Vegas.You're just boasting and showing off when you know deep down,Vegas is the centre of Corruption and fraud in Boxing.It's not like anyone in a Vegas Areana actually knows a thing about Boxing,they are just betting people and bankers.The price of a ticket is godsmackinf never mind the price of a PPV over their,and Yes i dont like the US,like the other 99% people around the world(your either American or not normal if you love the US)but that has nothing to do with my judgement on the US in Boxing Terms.It is a sink full of snakes like De La Hoya,Don King etc. Ok. Thanks for the response.

Vegas is still the boxing capital of the world. You make the most money in a big Vegas event fight. that is why people suggest Joshua should come to the US. If he can come here and dominate he will be a true international star rather than just a European star. If Joshua chooses to stay in England then he will never get complete respect. Sort of like if a soccer player stays his whole career in MLS and never plays where the best players play in Europe and South America. If you don't like the US, cool. Just don't call us when you need help. Why the hell do Americans love Vegas.You're just boasting and showing off when you know deep down,Vegas is the centre of Corruption and fraud in Boxing.It's not like anyone in a Vegas Areana actually knows a thing about Boxing,they are just betting people and bankers.The price of a ticket is godsmackinf never mind the price of a PPV over their,and Yes i dont like the US,like the other 99% people around the world(your either American or not normal if you love the US)but that has nothing to do with my judgement on the US in Boxing Terms.It is a sink full of snakes like De La Hoya,Don King etc.

You can't disagree based on facts. Wlad's fights never made as much in the US as they did in Europe. Plenty of US heavyweights have fought in Vegas since the end of American domination, none of them have made a fraction of what AJ did in terms of purse. None of them have even been on any meaningful PPV. You can't keep denying it and live in fantasy land. :dance: Dude, think for a second. That is a Wlad issue, it in no way means Vegas isn't the fight capital of the world. He fought Mccline, Shufford and Brewster (ko loss) then the Williamson debacle and he never went back to Vegas. Obviously US fans didn't hold him in as high regard as eastern european fans after getting KTFO by a lower level fighter so I can understand why he stayed away. AJ, like Lewis, is a special talent that US fans will love. Put him in with Wilder, where people think there will be an explosive KO, and that will draw fans and be a huge event. Yes, the HWT division was weak for a LOOOONGGGGG time. Now the division has real interest. Take advantage of this now. I am not saying Joshua has to stay in Vegas. Obviously, if he wins and fights Fury you wouldn't put that fight in Vegas given its a battle between to English fighters.