BBC Sports Personality 2017

Fake Mercedes team with no history? Yeah ok, obviously haven't heard of Juan Manuel Fangio, only the second most successful driver in f1 history. That team has no connection to modern Mercedes, absolutely none. Mercedes started in 2010 when everything was bought from Brawn. Absolutely no continuity from the Fangio-era Mercedes. It's like that new fake Lotus that existed from 2010-2015. Numbers don't lie huh? We'll see what the numbers say once Hamilton finishes his career. I mean the numbers of people interested in F1. F1 was 10 times as big in the Schumacher era. The cars back then were more difficult to drive too and a driver could make the difference. Modern F1 cars are like playing a computer game. They sound like a lawn mower too. TV figures are down, but that is only because of the fact that in most countries F1 has gone on to subscription channels rather than terrestrial tv. TV figures are down because hardly anyone cares about F1 anymore. During the Schumacher era it was the most popular sport besides football. Schumacher made F1 great. Hamilton will soon break most of Schumacher's records. LOL. Unless Mercedes is dominant for the next 4 years no. And if Mercedes continues to win for 4 more years F1 will be so boring it will become totally irrelevant. You forget to mention that Schumacher was beaten by Mika Hakkinen and Fernando Alonso in comparable cars, also by Villeneuve, the only top drivers during his whole first career. LOL you're a total noob comparing drivers in different cars. Schumacher only had a dominant car in 2002 and 2004. In all other seasons he had an inferior car. Look at how badly his teammates looked. By your logic Hamilton and Alonso got SMOKED by Vettel in a comparable car 2010-2013 then. This happened multiple times throughout his career, and you talk about team orders? Michael Schumacher was Mr Team orders, he and Ferrari were fined for it! He was also regularly given superior equipment and updates before his teammate. I talk about team orders because Hamilton's fans act like Mercedes doesn't use them. Hamilton drove the most dominant car in F1 history which is post 2014 Mercedes. This is statistically the most dominant that any car has been over a course of 4 seasons. And it's not like this because of Hamilton because his pathetic B-level and C-level teammates Rosberg and Betas did well in that Mercedes too, even beating Hamilton many times.

You're just another delusional British Hamilton fan boy who still can't get over the fact that the Italo-German duo of Ferrari-Schumacher was by far the greatest thing that the Formula One has ever seen. The numbers don't lie. Back then F1 was the second most popular sport in the world, only behind football. No one gives a **** about the current F1, Hamilton and the fake Mercedes team with no history. I watched F1 during the entire Schumi-Ferrari era and I saw GREATNESS. I know that the modern F1 doesn't even come close. Verstappen is the first great driver since Schumi. This video explains perfectly what Schumi was from 7:10 on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSpaHy93gns Nothing will ever come close to the Schumi era... The V10 sound, the emotions, the passion... Ha ha I can't argue with someone who has the knowledge of an Ant and such clear bias. Plus you are a Neo-Nazi in disguise, so all those things equate to this being a debate not worth having. There are too many holes in your posts, it would take me too long, and then you could only come out with more stupidity. I will give you a small taster though and I'm out. The era before the Schumacher era was better and from a competitive point of view MS would not have won those two championships in the Benneton had Senna still been alive. He barely scraped past Damon Hill and had to cheat to achieve it. Fake Mercedes team with no history? Yeah ok, obviously haven't heard of Juan Manuel Fangio, only the second most successful driver in f1 history. Numbers don't lie huh? We'll see what the numbers say once Hamilton finishes his career. Speaking of numbers - overall F1 attendances are up as a whole, and it is THE most popular sport in the world in terms of attendance. TV figures are down, but that is only because of the fact that in most countries F1 has gone on to subscription channels rather than terrestrial tv. I don't think anyone cares what you saw, most people care about the facts. I have listed mostly facts in this argument, your opinion matters squat. Hamilton will soon break most of Schumacher's records. I think you will be struggling to deal with that. Verstappen might be the next Hamilton, MIGHT. Time will tell. You forget to mention that Schumacher was beaten by Mika Hakkinen and Fernando Alonso in comparable cars, also by Villeneuve, the only top drivers during his whole first career. He shamed himself several times by cheating, and would not have won his first championship without cheating. Which he subsequently tried again and it backfired and got him kicked out of the championship. This happened multiple times throughout his career, and you talk about team orders? Michael Schumacher was Mr Team orders, he and Ferrari were fined for it! He was also regularly given superior equipment and updates before his teammate. THE END. Go home Roger.

AJ "stay humble" is nailed on to win. The BBC love diversity.

What stupidity - I wish I hadn't bothered. You know nothing, just a massive troll, as you have always been on here (yes I know who you are). I hope Ricciardo gets that Mercedes 2019 seat, if he does we can discuss further. You're just another delusional British Hamilton fan boy who still can't get over the fact that the Italo-German duo of Ferrari-Schumacher was by far the greatest thing that the Formula One has ever seen. The numbers don't lie. Back then F1 was the second most popular sport in the world, only behind football. No one gives a **** about the current F1, Hamilton and the fake Mercedes team with no history. I watched F1 during the entire Schumi-Ferrari era and I saw GREATNESS. I know that the modern F1 doesn't even come close. Verstappen is the first great driver since Schumi. This video explains perfectly what Schumi was from 7:10 on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSpaHy93gns Nothing will ever come close to the Schumi era... The V10 sound, the emotions, the passion...

Those people went there because of Schumacher and his charisma and his winning mentality, his drive for success, his understanding of the cars... Schumacher was an enigmatic and charismatic figure, larger than the sport. Hamilton has zero charisma. Formula One was much more popular during the Schumacher era, Schumacher was a hero for everybody. No one cares about F1 anymore in this "Hamilton era". The attendance and viewing numbers have dropped significantly. Rosberg beat Hamilton in 2016, outqualified him several times. I think even Button scored more points in 3 years him and Hamilton were together in McLaren. Hamilton is a hype job who is only rated because he's black and British just like the football player Pele. He is promoted like crazy but even still the F1 of his time can't get nearly as much popularity as it had during the Schumi era because Hamilton is no Schumacher and people know it. Do you have any idea how big Schumacher made the F1 look? Schumacher built the entire sport to a new level. He was the highest paid athlete and earned Mayweather-level money that Hamilton can only dream of. Also, Hamilton never raced for Ferrari. If you don't race for Ferrari you can't be a real legend of the sport. Ferrari has more fans than F1 at this point. :rofl::smashfrea

Michael Schumacher The single greatest moment in the history of F1, British fans can only CRY seeing this video because you'll never have a legend like Schumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO_abwDljUo Schumi won the championship with an inferior Ferrari car, a legendary team. F1 was literally 10 times bigger back then than it is now when Hamilton is winning with a vastly superior car and a fake Mercedes team with no history. British created the sport and the Germans conquered it. Even your hype job Hamilton had to get a vastly superior German car to start winning.

Monza qualifying was a mess, I think Stroll was like 4th. So you think Stroll is actually the 4th best qualifier? LOL. And no, things are never equal in F1. Monza is a Mercedes suited track. Hamilton was outqualified a lot of the B-level driver Rosbergs FFS. It's all hype. He is nowhere near the talent of Max Verstappen. Mercedes has been vastly superior since 2014 due to the engine regulations. They have a rocket ship. Ferrari only had advantage (barely) in Monaco, Singapore and Hungary. Those are the only tracks that are real downforce circuits. Qualifying pace is everything in current F1 where you can't overtake, especially not a car with a powerful engine like Merc. Massa was a journeyman pas his prime when he face Betas and unmotivated. And he didn't dominate him nearly as much as Alonso and Schumacher did. Massa is like 2-12 against his teammates. He has always been a total can. He beat Ricciardo (the second best driver on the grid) this year if you watched it carefully. The only reason Ricciardo was up in points was because of engine failures early in the season. When you compare them head to head Verstappen dominated. You're really dumb or just totally biased. Points are scored very specifically in F1, Ricciardo got lucky that his engine didn't go out in races where the Red Bull got a chance to be on podium due to either Merc or Ferrari falling behind. In all of those races Verstappen would have finished in front of him. I think he is a serial world champion in the making, but he needs time to develop, he is improving and making progress, long may it continue. LOL. Where was he before he got the superior Mercedes car? Nowhere. 2009-2013 people only talked about Vettel and Alonso. No one gets more respect among other drivers than Max Verstappen. They're all running scared, they know how good the kid is. Even Hamilton is completely petrified. HAHAHAH He didn't win the championship, MERCEDES won the championship. Cars win championships in F1, not drivers. What the hell does Hamilton even know about engineering? He's dumb as rocks. You don't even know that the car wins the championship and not the driver. Hamilton is not elite. Verstappen and Ricciardo are the only elite drivers right now. Red Bull is a total garbage of a car yet those two win races. Between Mercedes and Ferrari, the only team to use team orders was Mercedes. Betas was told to move several times. What stupidity - I wish I hadn't bothered. You know nothing, just a massive troll, as you have always been on here (yes I know who you are). I hope Ricciardo gets that Mercedes 2019 seat, if he does we can discuss further.

Ha ha you are a joke and know nothing about F1. Schumacher built that car? Sure he did. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Ross Brawn, Aldo Costa, Rory Byrne and Jean Todt. Funnily enough - Two of those names had a lot to do with this current Mercedes era as well. Those people went there because of Schumacher and his charisma and his winning mentality, his drive for success, his understanding of the cars... Schumacher was an enigmatic and charismatic figure, larger than the sport. Hamilton has zero charisma. Formula One was much more popular during the Schumacher era, Schumacher was a hero for everybody. No one cares about F1 anymore in this "Hamilton era". The attendance and viewing numbers have dropped significantly. Rosberg B - level? Yeah I don't think so. He was a GP2 champion and showed pedigree all through his driving career. He easily handled Schumacher in the 3 years of his second career, albeit an over the hill version. Hamilton beat him in every measurable category, as well as 3-1 in seasons. Rosberg beat Hamilton in 2016, outqualified him several times. I think even Button scored more points in 3 years him and Hamilton were together in McLaren. Hamilton is a hype job who is only rated because he's black and British just like the football player Pele. He is promoted like crazy but even still the F1 of his time can't get nearly as much popularity as it had during the Schumi era because Hamilton is no Schumacher and people know it. Do you have any idea how big Schumacher made the F1 look? Schumacher built the entire sport to a new level. He was the highest paid athlete and earned Mayweather-level money that Hamilton can only dream of. Also, Hamilton never raced for Ferrari. If you don't race for Ferrari you can't be a real legend of the sport. Ferrari has more fans than F1 at this point.

Damn you BBC :sad2:

Schumacher built that superior Ferrari. He gathered the entire team around him and everything was fitted to his needs. He shed a lot of blood and tears to get Ferrari where it was. Before Schumacher, Ferrari wasn't winning for decades and after Schumacher left Ferrari returned to mediocrity. Schumacher was a team player, he new the politics of the sport, he knew a lot about the technical aspect of F1, car mechanics etc. Hamilton doesn't know **** about that, he only knows how to race. Rosberg knew much more about engineering for example. Hamilton walked into a 2014 Mercedes which was a rocket ship due to the engine regulation changes. If he wasn't there Rosberg would be winning championships just as easily. In fact Hamilton lost to a B-level driver Rosberg in 2016 and was regularly out-qualified by him. Schumacher in his PRIME was on another level compared to other drivers. Post-2014 regulation change Mercedes is the most dominant car ever due to the engine regulations. Mercedes has a vastly superior engine. Back in the Schumacher Ferrari days Ferrari was only dominant for two seasons 2002 and 2004. In every other season it was a close championship, Schumacher won with arguably inferior Ferrari in 2000 and 2003. He was behind because he is an inconsistent driver and was even beaten by Betas on some circuits. Vettel isn't any sort of benchmark either, he was beaten easily by Ricciardo in 2014. Verstappen is by far the best driver on the grid. Ricciardo is the 2nd best driver, Alonso 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Vettel is probably 5th. Ha ha you are a joke and know nothing about F1. Schumacher built that car? Sure he did. I'm sure it had nothing to do with Ross Brawn, Aldo Costa, Rory Byrne and Jean Todt. Funnily enough - Two of those names had a lot to do with this current Mercedes era as well. Rosberg B - level? Yeah I don't think so. He was a GP2 champion and showed pedigree all through his driving career. He easily handled Schumacher in the 3 years of his second career, albeit an over the hill version. Hamilton beat him in every measurable category, as well as 3-1 in seasons. Michael Schumacher was a great, but he had less competition, its a FACT, which has been admitted by his teammates, including Johnny Herbert and Martin Brundle, who have both said F1 has moved on. Anyway I don't really like to compare era's. Schumacher is one of the top 3 drivers of all time, and arguably the GOAT, there is no arguing about that.

(Rubbing hands together) Lewis Hamilton's performances in qualifying this year were scarcely believable. Multiple times there was no one within half a second of him, but Monza took the cake, when the rain evened the playing field and he qualified over a second ahead of 2nd. Not to mention it gave him the all time pole record. Monza qualifying was a mess, I think Stroll was like 4th. So you think Stroll is actually the 4th best qualifier? LOL. And no, things are never equal in F1. Monza is a Mercedes suited track. Hamilton was outqualified a lot of the B-level driver Rosbergs FFS. It's all hype. He is nowhere near the talent of Max Verstappen. The Mercedes was not vastly superior, it was superior on power circuits, whilst the Ferrari was better on downforce circuits. The Mercedes was the better qualifying car on average, and the Ferrari was the better race car on average, because of its tyre degradation. On certain tracks that played into Mercedes hands, i.e. Spa where Hamilton was able to just about defend track position gained from qualifying, but again it was with superb driving against Vettel. I would say the majority of the points difference came down to reliability, and maybe a marginal better performance from the Merc. Mercedes has been vastly superior since 2014 due to the engine regulations. They have a rocket ship. Ferrari only had advantage (barely) in Monaco, Singapore and Hungary. Those are the only tracks that are real downforce circuits. Qualifying pace is everything in current F1 where you can't overtake, especially not a car with a powerful engine like Merc. You doubt Bottas as a driver yet he has showed class from his first year in F1. Not to mention he out qualified Massa (41-18 over 3 seasons) in a dominant and similar fashion to Alonso and Schumacher when they were his teammate, outscored Massa every season they had together, in a midfield car, which actually makes it a bit tougher. Massa was a journeyman pas his prime when he face Betas and unmotivated. And he didn't dominate him nearly as much as Alonso and Schumacher did. Massa is like 2-12 against his teammates. He has always been a total can. Verstappen is LEVELS above anyone on the grid right now? He has yet to beat Danny Ricciardo head to head now for two seasons. He beat Ricciardo (the second best driver on the grid) this year if you watched it carefully. The only reason Ricciardo was up in points was because of engine failures early in the season. When you compare them head to head Verstappen dominated. Before you start talking about unreliability, Verstappen had 7 retirements, Ricciardo 6, and Ric had a few more bouts of unreliability in Quali, but Vertappen still finished 32 points behind him. You're really dumb or just totally biased. Points are scored very specifically in F1, Ricciardo got lucky that his engine didn't go out in races where the Red Bull got a chance to be on podium due to either Merc or Ferrari falling behind. In all of those races Verstappen would have finished in front of him. I think he is a serial world champion in the making, but he needs time to develop, he is improving and making progress, long may it continue. Lewis is the best driver in F1, period. LOL. Where was he before he got the superior Mercedes car? Nowhere. 2009-2013 people only talked about Vettel and Alonso. His results say it, his fellow drivers say it, most of the paddock says it, including Alonso. No one gets more respect among other drivers than Max Verstappen. They're all running scared, they know how good the kid is. Even Hamilton is completely petrified. Everything about him says that he is one of the greatest drivers the sport has ever seen. HAHAHAH If you include everything he has achieved and combine it with the year he had, becoming the most successful British driver of all time, breaking the pole record, winning his 4th championship. He didn't win the championship, MERCEDES won the championship. Cars win championships in F1, not drivers. What the hell does Hamilton even know about engineering? He's dumb as rocks. But do not start talking rubbish about F1 with someone who has been watching it since 1992 and knows the sport. You don't even know that the car wins the championship and not the driver. Hamilton is not elite. Verstappen and Ricciardo are the only elite drivers right now. Red Bull is a total garbage of a car yet those two win races. If anyone has clearly got a number 2 driver it is Vettel, who has an over the hill Raikonnen as a teammate. Between Mercedes and Ferrari, the only team to use team orders was Mercedes. Betas was told to move several times.

Just saw the news. They're trying to get rid of them fine ass grid girls in F1! The bastards! I watch them in 4k too. Some fàggots suggested the use of male models instead. I don't want to see male models in 4k. The world has gone nuts. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42346331 Wow - yeah I don't like that. It would be like taking the ring card girls out of boxing. Its all this stuff that went on in Hollywood that has set this all off I reckon.

Nah. If you're going to talk about superior cars in F1 then you'll dismiss a lot of the greatest racers ever including Schumacher who was dominating with Ferrari at the time and there were much much less restrictions back then too. Schumacher built that superior Ferrari. He gathered the entire team around him and everything was fitted to his needs. He shed a lot of blood and tears to get Ferrari where it was. Before Schumacher, Ferrari wasn't winning for decades and after Schumacher left Ferrari returned to mediocrity. Schumacher was a team player, he new the politics of the sport, he knew a lot about the technical aspect of F1, car mechanics etc. Hamilton doesn't know **** about that, he only knows how to race. Rosberg knew much more about engineering for example. Hamilton walked into a 2014 Mercedes which was a rocket ship due to the engine regulation changes. If he wasn't there Rosberg would be winning championships just as easily. In fact Hamilton lost to a B-level driver Rosberg in 2016 and was regularly out-qualified by him. Schumacher in his PRIME was on another level compared to other drivers. This whole idea of superior cars is extremely marginal these days with all the restrictions that came in so Lewis' achievement is greater than the days of Schumacher in his clearly superior Ferrari. Post-2014 regulation change Mercedes is the most dominant car ever due to the engine regulations. Mercedes has a vastly superior engine. Back in the Schumacher Ferrari days Ferrari was only dominant for two seasons 2002 and 2004. In every other season it was a close championship, Schumacher won with arguably inferior Ferrari in 2000 and 2003. Plus he came from way behind to overtake Vettel. Some great rivalry with Vettel too who is one aggressive bastard on the roads caused so much controversy and near misses. Was fun to watch this year. He was behind because he is an inconsistent driver and was even beaten by Betas on some circuits. Vettel isn't any sort of benchmark either, he was beaten easily by Ricciardo in 2014. Verstappen is by far the best driver on the grid. Ricciardo is the 2nd best driver, Alonso 3rd, Hamilton 4th. Vettel is probably 5th.

(Rubbing hands together) Lewis Hamilton's performances in qualifying this year were scarcely believable. Multiple times there was no one within half a second of him, but Monza took the cake, when the rain evened the playing field and he qualified over a second ahead of 2nd. Not to mention it gave him the all time pole record. The Mercedes was not vastly superior, it was superior on power circuits, whilst the Ferrari was better on downforce circuits. The Mercedes was the better qualifying car on average, and the Ferrari was the better race car on average, because of its tyre degradation. On certain tracks that played into Mercedes hands, i.e. Spa where Hamilton was able to just about defend track position gained from qualifying, but again it was with superb driving against Vettel. I would say the majority of the points difference came down to reliability, and maybe a marginal better performance from the Merc. You doubt Bottas as a driver yet he has showed class from his first year in F1. Not to mention he out qualified Massa (41-18 over 3 seasons) in a dominant and similar fashion to Alonso and Schumacher when they were his teammate, outscored Massa every season they had together, in a midfield car, which actually makes it a bit tougher. If anyone has clearly got a number 2 driver it is Vettel, who has an over the hill Raikonnen as a teammate. Speaking of Raikonnen - this was a guy who was constantly tripping over Bottas in a superior car between 2014-2016. Verstappen is LEVELS above anyone on the grid right now? He has yet to beat Danny Ricciardo head to head now for two seasons. His qualifying performance was mighty this season and the kid has really impressed, the speed is there, but he still has a lot to learn in terms of race management and consistency before he is mentioned with the greats, and he actually needs to beat his teammate. Before you start talking about unreliability, Verstappen had 7 retirements, Ricciardo 6, and Ric had a few more bouts of unreliability in Quali, but Vertappen still finished 32 points behind him. There was also not a lot between Verstappen and Carlos Sainz either so I am not sure how you can say he is LEVELS above everyone else. I think he is a serial world champion in the making, but he needs time to develop, he is improving and making progress, long may it continue. Lewis is the best driver in F1, period. His results say it, his fellow drivers say it, most of the paddock says it, including Alonso. Everything about him says that he is one of the greatest drivers the sport has ever seen. You can go back through the junior categories and karting where often in similar or even worse equipment, the pedigree was always there. He became European Karting champion in dominant fashion. He had the most dominant F3 championship, probably of all time in 2005, only a few have come close including Ayrton Senna. He won GP2/F2 at the first time of asking, and at the time statistically the most dominant season (now broken by Vandoorne). His drive in Istanbul is generally regarded as one of the greatest in history in the junior categories. He matched Alonso as a rookie in F1. Who himself is an all time great. He won the championship the following season in the second best car. He has had a pole position and a race win in every season he has been in F1, even in seasons where his teammates were not able. He will probably break most of Michael Schumacher's records if he stays in the sport for another 3 or 4 years. You can get lucky for a day or two, maybe even a season. You don't get lucky for 20 years. This guy has been there or thereabouts for the majority of his motorsport career. If you include everything he has achieved and combine it with the year he had, becoming the most successful British driver of all time, breaking the pole record, winning his 4th championship. The evidence is overwhelming for him to be SPOTY. But as I said Joshua will probably get it as its a popularity contest. But do not start talking rubbish about F1 with someone who has been watching it since 1992 and knows the sport. Damn. You're like a F1 encyclopedia.

This is a good post, also the grid is way more competitive these days, this is coming from pit crew and engineers I have spoken to at race weekends. Young driver programmes - as well as more money in the sport have allowed the best drivers to come through, you only get a handful of drivers who pay for their seats nowadays, compared to the 80's and 90's when 60% or more were paying for their seat. This means the majority of the drivers are there on merit, based on their performance, not the money they bring. You have more F3 and GP2/F2 champions on the grid than at any time. I do wish cars performed closer, I think that is the direction the sport is headed though with the new owners. Just saw the news. They're trying to get rid of them fine ass grid girls in F1! The bastards! I watch them in 4k too. Some fàggots suggested the use of male models instead. I don't want to see male models in 4k. The world has gone nuts. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/42346331

That never stopped Jackie Stewart, Nigel Mansell, or Damon Hill winning it multiple times. And?????????

That's me told. Good comeback. Lol - I expected some bitty comeback. Fair play, at least you can admit when your wrong. I will do the same if you ever catch me out!

Nah. If you're going to talk about superior cars in F1 then you'll dismiss a lot of the greatest racers ever including Schumacher who was dominating with Ferrari at the time and there were much much less restrictions back then too. You can have a superior car anyway but superior cars need superior drivers to get the best out of them. After all it's not a simple drag race in a straight line so not as easy as putting your foot down. This whole idea of superior cars is extremely marginal these days with all the restrictions that came in so Lewis' achievement is greater than the days of Schumacher in his clearly superior Ferrari. Plus he came from way behind to overtake Vettel. Some great rivalry with Vettel too who is one aggressive bastard on the roads caused so much controversy and near misses. Was fun to watch this year. This is a good post, also the grid is way more competitive these days, this is coming from pit crew and engineers I have spoken to at race weekends. Young driver programmes - as well as more money in the sport have allowed the best drivers to come through, you only get a handful of drivers who pay for their seats nowadays, compared to the 80's and 90's when 60% or more were paying for their seat. This means the majority of the drivers are there on merit, based on their performance, not the money they bring. You have more F3 and GP2/F2 champions on the grid than at any time. I do wish cars performed closer, I think that is the direction the sport is headed though with the new owners.

2016 had the most overtakes in the history of the sport. Its fine if your not a fan, but don't talk ****. That's me told. Good comeback.

Why should Hamilton win a British award when he doesnt live here or bother paying taxes while he'd be nothing without the British fan base. Anyway its a bs award. I do like the section with regards to public service which is nice to see. That never stopped Jackie Stewart, Nigel Mansell, or Damon Hill winning it multiple times.