What are the best wins of the last 20 years? Got to factor in some circumstances like just because it's a huge event doesn't elevate it if one of the guys far removed from his best much like Lewis-Tyson. Or if one of the fighters has been inactive for a while say a 12 month cut off that should factor in. Catch weights also shouldn't really shouldn't be strongly considered so like Hopkins-Wright, Cotto-Pacquaio for example. Controversial decisions shouldn't really be considered either so like De La Hoya-Whitaker.
Circumstances that make it great are simple - quality of the opponent and the form he brought into the ring and recent record, whether the fighter is great or not and the task at hand for example Douglas-Tyson would qualify but obviously that's 27 years ago.
I broke it down to the following :- (no order)
Hopkins-Trinidad
Marquez-Pacquaio IV
Pacquaio-Barrera I
Barrera-Morales III
Morales-Pacquaio I
Target-Jones II
Those would be my choices for the absolute best given the form, quality of the fighters (the loser was a clearly great fighter) activity level, stage of their careers and performance.
I'd then add
Chocolatito-Rungvisai II
Mosley-De La Hoya I
Forrest-Mosley I
Hopkins-Tarver
Marquez-Barrera
Pacquaio-Morales II
Rafael Marquez-Vazquez I
Vazquez-Rafael Marquez II
Barrera-Hamed
I think these one (with the exception of JMM-MAB) involve fighters who aren't quite great but almost there. Of course Morales-Pacquaio II is but Morales wear and tear showed and a poor showing against Raheem.
So factored in I'd take that one down and probably Choco-Rungvisai due to Choco being a little high up in weight and wear and tear and probably Hopkins-Tarver. It's nitpicking but you've got to when narrowing down a list like this.
My 10 would be
Marquez-Pacquaio IV
Pacquaio-Barrera I
Hopkins-Trinidad
Tarver-Jones II
Morales-Pacquaio I
Barrera-Morales III
Forrest-Mosley I
Mosley-De La Hoya I
Marquez-Barrera
Rafa-Vazquez I
In somewhat of an order.
I prefer watching his fights in my living room. You think you're more of a fan because you've been to fights? Lmao. You're still bias as hell.
I do both. I like the atmosphere and the vantage point of a good seat. Really can appreciate certain aspects of the game not captured on camera. Can always watch the fight on the DVR when you get home and there's plenty fights in the year to watch in the living room.
It's a good way of showing your support for the sport and like I said has a great adrenaline about it. I'll take live over living room any day.
You just mad that I have seen your celeb crush fight live and you haven't.
I prefer watching his fights in my living room. You think you're more of a fan because you've been to fights? Lmao. You're still bias as hell.
You are being extremely hypocritical. You are picking and choosing p4p status when it suits your argument. You can't have it both ways.
My point remains-no matter how great a fighter Tito was, he was not a great MW. Joppy had no significant wins before he fought Tito. Cherifi had lost to Joppy and was a journeyman at best. Mayorga was coming up from 154 when Tito beat him.
It is beyond unreasonable for you to call Bhop's win over him great given the context, and then say that Floyd beating Corrales is not.
Tito did not prove to be a great fighter at 160 nor did Chico at 130. Tito was a great fighter though and was clearly a better fighter than Chico no matter how you slice it.
It's like saying because Wilfredo Gomez was not a great fighter at 126 that win for Salvador Sanchez isn't as good as Calzaghe's wins over Lacy or Kessler because they were perceived as #1 or 2 at 168 or that Hagler's win over Hearns isn't as good as Barrera's win over Hamed.
he hates floyd man...always has....its been evident for some time now if you are familar with him
I am aware he hates Floyd and that is what is driving his opinion.
You are being extremely hypocritical. You are picking and choosing p4p status when it suits your argument. You can't have it both ways.
My point remains-no matter how great a fighter Tito was, he was not a great MW. Joppy had no significant wins before he fought Tito. Cherifi had lost to Joppy and was a journeyman at best. Mayorga was coming up from 154 when Tito beat him.
It is beyond unreasonable for you to call Bhop's win over him great given the context, and then say that Floyd beating Corrales is not.
he hates floyd man...always has....its been evident for some time now if you are familar with him
Trinidad had been on such mythical lists since 1994 and in the top 5's and was rightfully considered one of the top 2-3 boxers in the whole world by just about everybody whereas Corrales got overrated and put into the Ring's list after beating Manfredy.
You are being extremely hypocritical. You are picking and choosing p4p status when it suits your argument. You can't have it both ways.
My point remains-no matter how great a fighter Tito was, he was not a great MW. Joppy had no significant wins before he fought Tito. Cherifi had lost to Joppy and was a journeyman at best. Mayorga was coming up from 154 when Tito beat him.
It is beyond unreasonable for you to call Bhop's win over him great given the context, and then say that Floyd beating Corrales is not.
What is that you said about p4p? LMFAO!! I just gave his record for context, obviously I am not counting fights after he fought Bhop to judge the Bhop fight.
Context! He had 1 win at MW, against Joppy, who is about the same level as Manfredy, who Corrales defeated.
Trinidad wasn't a great MW, yet you consider it a great win. That is gerrymandering.
Trinidad had been on such mythical lists since 1994 and in the top 5's and was rightfully considered one of the top 2-3 boxers in the whole world by just about everybody whereas Corrales got overrated and put into the Ring's list after beating Manfredy.
Not in any order
Hopkins vs De la Hoya/Pavlik/Tarver/Pascal II - Except for Oscar, consider his age.
Mosely vs Margarito - No one really saw this coming.
Marquez vs Pacquiao IV - No one saw this ending coming.
Martinez vs Williams II - Another shocking ending. And he said he would get a KO!
Mayweather vs Alvarez - This fight will be judged accordingly in the future
Morales vs Pacquiao I - A great performance from Morales.
Garcia vs Matthysse - The Matthysse fans made this one special.
Pacquiao vs Cotto - One of his best performance.
Maidana vs Broner - Just for the hell of it.
Joshua vs Klitschko - One of the best fights in a long while.
Ward vs Kovalev II - Almost forgot this one.
I'm considering everything! A win is a win!
some real good ones there that people either underrate or dont want to acknowledge
its funny you mention floyd/canelo...thats prob one most dont wanna recognize....but i agree...i think you are right that in due time history will look back on that one and give floyd more credit than hes gotten so far
its funny tho...the same guys that want to give floyd basically 0 credit for that desperately want davis to fight loma.....strange huh?
Trinidad was either #1 or 2 pound for pound and had just demolished Joppy for the WBA belt. Joppy was a respected long reigning champion and Tito was reigning fighter of the year. Can't really use what he did post retirement into context of his standing at that time. Tito had a lot of hard fights, nearly 3 years out and left pieces of himself in the ring with Hopkins and Vargas. Also, FYI the Jones fight was in the light heavyweight division after yet another 3 year hiatus.
Tito's wins over Joppy and even Mayorga are more impressive than anything on Corrales' 130 ledger.
Tito was also a 4-1 favorite over Hopkins so surely if you are going to point out that Floyd-Chico was a pick'em fight then this fact must be raised, no?
What is that you said about p4p? LMFAO!! I just gave his record for context, obviously I am not counting fights after he fought Bhop to judge the Bhop fight.
Context! He had 1 win at MW, against Joppy, who is about the same level as Manfredy, who Corrales defeated.
Trinidad wasn't a great MW, yet you consider it a great win. That is gerrymandering.
Some of mine are:
RJJ vs. Hill and Ruiz
MAB vs. Morales III
MAB vs. Hamed
Pac vs. MAB I
Pac vs. Morales II
Pac vs. Bradley II & III
Bradley vs. Marquez
Pac vs. Cotto and Margarito
Forrest vs. Mosley
Mayorga vs. Forrest I
Tszyu vs. Judah
Israel Vasquez vs. Rafael Marquez III
Calzaghe vs. Hopkins
Hopkins vs. Tarver
Trinidad vs. Vargas
Cotto vs. Margarito II
Maidana vs. Broner
Loma vs. Walters
Loma vs. Russell Jr.
Come on. You can't pick and choose when you go with p4p and when you don't, especially when we are trying to assess the greatness of a fighter or their opposition.
Lets examine Bhop/Trinidad closely.
Trinidad is a great fighter. He wasn't a great MW. above 154 lbs he was 3-3, his wins being against Mayorga, Cherifi and Joppy, his losses Bhop, wright, roy. Given the context, if that is a great win for Bhop?
Corrales, is better at SFW than Trinidad was at MW, even though Trinidad is a HOFer and Corrales is not.
This is my point about you gerrymandering wins.
Trinidad was either #1 or 2 pound for pound and had just demolished Joppy for the WBA belt. Joppy was a respected long reigning champion and Tito was reigning fighter of the year. Can't really use what he did post retirement into context of his standing at that time. Tito had a lot of hard fights, nearly 3 years out and left pieces of himself in the ring with Hopkins and Vargas. Also, FYI the Jones fight was in the light heavyweight division after yet another 3 year hiatus.
Tito's wins over Joppy and even Mayorga are more impressive than anything on Corrales' 130 ledger.
Tito was also a 4-1 favorite over Hopkins so surely if you are going to point out that Floyd-Chico was a pick'em fight then this fact must be raised, no?
Srl beat the prime outta hearns....thats my agruement. He was a great fighter but by the time he fought Hagler he wasn't at his best.
Still at a higher level than anything Floyd fought. Yes or no?
His career post Leonard is more impressive than any fighter Floyd ever fought.
Who is great that was at their best when Floyd fought them?
P4P is subjective and that's just going off the ring's list. Corrales wasn't really one of the top 10 fighters in the world. P4P isn't official and sometimes can be wrong.
Barrera's win over Morales perhaps or Barrera's win over Hamed could qualify. Obviously we know Hamed wasn't as good as fighters lower than him on the mythical list like Hopkins or Morales but that was the views of many.
Floyd's win was very good but it's not great like Marquez KO6 Pacquaio, Barrera W12 Morales, Morales W12 Pacquaio, Hopkins KO12 Trinidad etc; etc;
Come on. You can't pick and choose when you go with p4p and when you don't, especially when we are trying to assess the greatness of a fighter or their opposition.
Lets examine Bhop/Trinidad closely.
Trinidad is a great fighter. He wasn't a great MW. above 154 lbs he was 3-3, his wins being against Mayorga, Cherifi and Joppy, his losses Bhop, wright, roy. Given the context, is this really a great win for Bhop?
Corrales is better at SFW than Trinidad was at MW, even though Trinidad is a HOFer and Corrales is not. Yet you treat Trinidad as prime WW/JMW Trinidad, where he was a HOF'er and had his best wins.
This illustrates my point about you gerrymandering wins.
I have no problem with your opinion, it just seems like you work backwards-if Floyd didn't do it make it a criteria for greatness, rather than just first establishing a criteria and examining all fights equally through that.
And that was the end of Hearns' career? The Benitez and Duran fights don't count? How did he win manage three wins superior than any on your celebrity crushes resume when he was completely shot?
When you face great fighters sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes you learn, adapt and become great again.
Srl beat the prime outta hearns....thats my agruement. He was a great fighter but by the time he fought Hagler he wasn't at his best.
I watched the fight, he was kfto technically. The ref saved his ass.
And that was the end of Hearns' career? The Benitez and Duran fights don't count? How did he win manage three wins (Virgil Hill at 175 in his prime also) superior than any on your celebrity crushes resume when he was completely shot?
When you face great fighters sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometimes you learn, adapt and become great again.