Do people seriously believe Floyd Mayweather Jr could beat Gennady Golovkin at 160?

Your main point is not a point its a fantasy and you said no fantasies allowed in this thread. In my fantasy prime Floyd sticks and moves stealing a 12 rd decision by a wide margin, your fantasy bets on GGG landing solid, mine that he doesn't land anything of note, if you cant hit Floyd you cant win and he is a master of not getting hit. Now if you think about it, you cannot debate a fantasy because its all BS and what is the point of debating BS, now that is the main point ! By that reasoning, any fight that hasn't happened is a 'fantasy' if the outcome of such fights are being argued about. Whether you want to label it a 'fantasy' or not. The point is, if we're being objective, reasonable and rational, then the position we take must be of the one that has the most evidence. In this case, the evidence is in the form of FEATS. As such, Golovkin has the feats to suggest he has been the best 160 pound boxer of the last decade. Meanwhile, Floyd Mayweather Jr has 0 feats at 160 pounds. Therefore, the most reasonable conclusion is that the one who is proven with more feats (Golovkin) should be the favorite to win in this match up, given the stipulations. If you think an elite boxer in their respective division is going to be unable to land anything on Floyd Mayweather Jr, then that's simply delusional! There hasn't been a single boxer that Mayweather was totally untouched against. This isn't fiction where you have fictional characters like Flash that can go untouched. This a real boxing match between two elite boxers inside the boxing ring. Going by your argument, Mayweather would also be able to beat heavyweights too, since there aren't much reasons to assume they would be any more successful in landing punches on Mayweather than Golovkin would?

If I am repeating anything, it's because the points I am responding to are also being repeated. As for 'answered', it doesn't change the fact that Mayweather fighting Canelo Alvarez at a catch weight put him at a bigger advantageous position than Amir Khan fighting Canelo Alvarez without there existing any catch weights along with Canelo's other opponents. All of those other things you wrote are irrelevant. Since the original topic is about whether Mayweather can beat Golovkin at 160 pounds without there existing any catch weights and Mayweather has no feats of beating any solid 160 pound boxer without any catch weights imposed or rehydration clauses imposed. That's the main point! Your main point is not a point its a fantasy and you said no fantasies allowed in this thread. In my fantasy prime Floyd sticks and moves stealing a 12 rd decision by a wide margin, your fantasy bets on GGG landing solid, mine that he doesn't land anything of note, if you cant hit Floyd you cant win and he is a master of not getting hit. Now if you think about it, you cannot debate a fantasy because its all BS and what is the point of debating BS, now that is the main point !

Why do you repeat the same sht over and over even though it was answered. Canelo was lower weight fight night because he weighed in lighter, the CW means he must have less mass, less mass means less weight and less water holding potential, so it not only allows you make weight it means you don't rehydrate as you would without the CW because of the lowered mass. There was no mystery dehydration clause, there was no rehydration clause of any kind there was a CW of 152. When you force a fighter to a CW, and if its a weight that he cant reach with just fluids, with top athletes they often only have maybe a pound leeway from their normal drying out, well when its like that you don't need a rehydration clause because the less body mass forces a lowered fight night weight just naturally. If I am repeating anything, it's because the points I am responding to are also being repeated. As for 'answered', it doesn't change the fact that Mayweather fighting Canelo Alvarez at a catch weight put him at a bigger advantageous position than Amir Khan fighting Canelo Alvarez without there existing any catch weights along with Canelo's other opponents. All of those other things you wrote are irrelevant. Since the original topic is about whether Mayweather can beat Golovkin at 160 pounds without there existing any catch weights and Mayweather has no feats of beating any solid 160 pound boxer without any catch weights imposed or rehydration clauses imposed. That's the main point!

Your points about 'skill' are subjective, unsubstantiated, irrelevant or a combination of those things. In other words, they are meaningless. Arguing who has better 'footwork' is as meaningful as arguing about who's daddy is better between two children's in terms of being a dad. Fact is, Mayweather did fight Canelo Alvarez at 152 pounds under a catch weight. Fact is, Canelo Alvarez wasn't as heavy as he usually is (weighing above 170 pounds) on fight night. Everything else is irrelevant because they are subjective or speculative. So unless / until Mayweather has beaten a legit 160 pound boxer who weighs as much as Golovkin does usually without any catch weights or rehydration clauses on fight night, Mayweather remains featless to suggest he can defeat someone of Golovkin's caliber and weight. As in, the claim about Mayweather being able to beat Golovkin under the stipulations mentioned in this thread remain unfounded. Basis for what exactly? Of course, in terms of affecting one's performance and gaining an advantage, it does have a basis. Otherwise, Maywaeather would've fought Canelo Alvarez like how Amir Khan did. Which was without any catch weights. So Mayweather did indeed gain an advantage by fighting Canelo Alvarez at the catch weight, rather than fighting him at the full 160 pound limit without any catch weights. No, I 'probably' don't need to. You should 'probably' avoid using Ad Hominem fallacies. Why do you repeat the same sht over and over even though it was answered. Canelo was lower weight fight night because he weighed in lighter, the CW means he must have less mass, less mass means less weight and less water holding potential, so it not only allows you make weight it means you don't rehydrate as you would without the CW because of the lowered mass. There was no mystery dehydration clause, there was no rehydration clause of any kind there was a CW of 152. When you force a fighter to a CW, and if its a weight that he cant reach with just fluids, with top athletes they often only have maybe a pound leeway from their normal drying out, well when its like that you don't need a rehydration clause because the less body mass forces a lowered fight night weight just naturally.

Skill for skill, Saul Alvarez is a better fighter than Golovkin. Slow feet aside, Alvarez can box/brawl, fight off the back foot, fight inside/mid/long, can catch-and-shoot, can fight off the counter, can bait punch, can fight in combination, and punches well to the head and body. Alvarez ****ed up when he said he'd come down to 152 to fight Floyd (Floyd rarely gives concessions back to anyone, with only the Cotto fight at 154 standing out), but Alvarez posed a far more complete fighter to figure out than Golovkin seems to pose. Your points about 'skill' are subjective, unsubstantiated, irrelevant or a combination of those things. In other words, they are meaningless. Arguing who has better 'footwork' is as meaningful as arguing about who's daddy is better between two children's in terms of being a dad. Fact is, Mayweather did fight Canelo Alvarez at 152 pounds under a catch weight. Fact is, Canelo Alvarez wasn't as heavy as he usually is (weighing above 170 pounds) on fight night. Everything else is irrelevant because they are subjective or speculative. So unless / until Mayweather has beaten a legit 160 pound boxer who weighs as much as Golovkin does usually without any catch weights or rehydration clauses on fight night, Mayweather remains featless to suggest he can defeat someone of Golovkin's caliber and weight. As in, the claim about Mayweather being able to beat Golovkin under the stipulations mentioned in this thread remain unfounded. So the possible extra dieting to comfortably make 152lbs had no basis, and you're instead hanging your hat on this mystery rehydration clause? lol Basis for what exactly? Of course, in terms of affecting one's performance and gaining an advantage, it does have a basis. Otherwise, Maywaeather would've fought Canelo Alvarez like how Amir Khan did. Which was without any catch weights. So Mayweather did indeed gain an advantage by fighting Canelo Alvarez at the catch weight, rather than fighting him at the full 160 pound limit without any catch weights. You should probably try watching that fight again, lol. No, I 'probably' don't need to. You should 'probably' avoid using Ad Hominem fallacies.

I think he answered your question well about why there might be a double standard, if one were to exist (of course we can't be sure because Pac wasn't in that situation). But the point being the situation could have occurred to: BoxerA, who always advocated for more drug testing and had been tested for all fights since 2010. or BoxerB, who avoided the biggest fight in history because of drug testing issues, has what seems to be a growing head, back acne, and once again...refused his biggest payday because he might have to give blood 14 days before the fight. Knowing that, which would you be less likely to believe regarding that "situation" you mentioned? Let's keep it real. Still irrelevant. To me, there's still been no satisfactory explanation for why he needed the iv and that wouldn't change depending on the fighter. I've long suspected pac of ped use, not so much for Floyd...but it doesn't change the facts of what went on, and to me it's shady no matter who did it. That's what some of these nut huggers can't seem to grasp...not everyone who questions something that's clearly suspicious is automatically some type of hater.

No. If Pac was under the same exact circumstances he would've been the person trying to get drug testing for YEARS and have been tested for YEARS. Floyd has been tested since ~2011 against JMM, Ortiz, Cotto, Mosley, Berto, Ghost, Maidana (twice), Canelo, etc. Meanwhile Pac was tested against NOBODY and AVOIDED testing for Y E A R S. Refused against Floyd, JMM (and then lmfao cried PED use by JMM...kettle black XD), Mosley, etc. all that backstory has nothing to do with what I said. if it was pac in the exact same scenario, with the same explanation, I'm sure you would be a little bit suspicious. the way drug use and test circumvention is these days, nobody is above suspicion...especially athletes that compete at a high level at a relatively advanced age.

Medically exempt iv's are of course permitted in every sport, period. It;s a MEDICAL exemption. True for vada, wada, usada, nsac, etc. The unique thing is that Floyd submitted TUE to usada and not nsac. There apparently weren't clear rules at the time which have since been corrected. Floyd applied the correct paperwork to correct agency - granted saline infusion. Manny never submitted TUE paperwork - denied narcotic injection (Tramadol is a narcotic pain reliever). yea...so everyone said weeks later. admit it, if it was pac under the exact same circumstances, you'd think there might be something more to it. I like Floyd as a fighter, but wouldn't be surprised at all if he was using some type of ped during the late part of his career. I don't get why people feel the need to be apologists for every thing he does just because of some feud with pact@rds.

They have since made it illegal to comply with NSAC. Nothing to do with the practice. Has to do with state commissions wanting to be "in control" This witch hunt is so sad lmfao not sure what you mean...iv's have been banned by wada since 2005.

I made that claim because Canelo Alvarez stated himself that a rehydration clause was imposed on him. Even if I for argument's sake, take the point back about there being a rehydration clause, it doesn't change the fact that there was still a catch weight. Claiming 'he didn't need a CW' is no more of a valuable claim than me claiming he needed it. The fact that there was a catch weight, is evidence that he more likely needed it than not. Otherwise, the fight wouldn't have taken place at a catch weight. Skill for skill, Saul Alvarez is a better fighter than Golovkin. Slow feet aside, Alvarez can box/brawl, fight off the back foot, fight inside/mid/long, can catch-and-shoot, can fight off the counter, can bait punch, can fight in combination, and punches well to the head and body. Alvarez ****ed up when he said he'd come down to 152 to fight Floyd (Floyd rarely gives concessions back to anyone, with only the Cotto fight at 154 standing out), but Alvarez posed a far more complete fighter to figure out than Golovkin seems to pose.

Floyd is no doctor don't hang off a word, like asking a guy how bad is your headache you will get a million different responses, the 750 ml tells me . Its not so much the volume its the time of 6hrs, its like anything in this world they set standards at the extreme level, like if a steel rod is to support a ton the standard would be for 3 tons. The point is 750ml for a 150 lb male is not much at all a day before an event, it seems to me half the facts are out and people make up the other half to suit their agenda. Dehydration is a length of string it varies from mild to life threating, just because IV fluids is used doesn't mean its severe especially when you know the volume was 750ml which is low, in an athlete even very mild dehydration is a concern. He was also PED tested before the fluids and after. This whole thing is a witch hunt by haters in a forum, if they have all this hard proof well take it to the relevant people and have something done about it, they don't they just talk sht in forums. couldn't agree more...I merely question the iv and I get attacked by people who make up their own reasoning why it's all legit, ignore what Floyd himself said, and disregard that usada has since made it illegal.

No, Canelo Alvarez weighed below 170 pounds on fight night is my point. Whereas he usually weighs above 170 pounds most of the time. So the possible extra dieting to comfortably make 152lbs had no basis, and you're instead hanging your hat on this mystery rehydration clause? lol

Except no, Canelo Alavarez weighed less against Floyd Mayweather Jr than he usually does. Against Amir Khan, there wasn't any catch weight and he was subsequently able to rehydrate to a higher weight than against Floyd Mayweather Jr. The same applies when he fought Gennady Golovkin. If anything, this further supports my argument, that Mayweather has never beaten anybody that is Golovkin's size without any catch weights or rehydration clauses. The closest boxer to Golovkin was Canelo Alvarez and he had to fight him at a catch weight. You see, those claims are utter speculation! 'Limited skills' and 'utterly outclass'. You're claiming he 'see it that way'. Well then why didn't Mayweather fight Golovkin when he had the chance? Why didn't Mayweather fight Canelo Alvarez without imposing catch weights? You still haven't answered those questions. In other words, your claims are totally unfounded and baseless. I could claim with the same amount of value that Golovkin sees Mayweather as someone with 'limited skills' that he can utterly outclass at 147 pounds. However, it's a baseless statement because Golovkin has no feats at beating someone at Mayweather's caliber at 147 pounds. You do realize that Golovkin has the best 160 pound record of the last decade? In other words, if Mayweather targets Golovkin, he by default also targets the entire middleweight division. Skills are subjective. They mean nothing, in and of themselves. A boxer is as only as skilled as their record. If they have the best record in their respective weight division, then they are the most skilled in that weight division. Golovkin has the best record at 160 pounds. Therefore, he is the most skilled 160 pound boxer. Mayweather has 0 feats at 160 pounds. Therefore, he isn't any more skilled than a bum / journeyman at the 160 pound division. You are only as good as what you prove to be. How much has Mayweather proven himself at the 160 pound division? Absolutely nothing! Claiming he could do this or that at 160 pounds against the best in that division is utter speculation which amounts to nothing. It holds just as much value as me claiming Golovkin could beat prime Mayweather at 147 pounds. Saul Alvarez had to make 152lbs. Rather than simply extend his weight cut (Alvarez had seemed to master the cut down to barely 154lbs), Alvarez and his camp shaved the weight off of the body before the cut. Less mass makes the weight easier to make, while also lessening the weight when all fluids are put back into the body. Rather than go with a logical deduction, you've chose to waste your time making stuff up without any semblance of proof.

Against Kell Brook for starters! You should probably try watching that fight again, lol.

You specifically said there was a rehydration clause, there wasn't. He didn't need the CW he said it will make the task easier. I made that claim because Canelo Alvarez stated himself that a rehydration clause was imposed on him. Even if I for argument's sake, take the point back about there being a rehydration clause, it doesn't change the fact that there was still a catch weight. Claiming 'he didn't need a CW' is no more of a valuable claim than me claiming he needed it. The fact that there was a catch weight, is evidence that he more likely needed it than not. Otherwise, the fight wouldn't have taken place at a catch weight.

What is confusing? Floyd had a medically exempt saline infusion and you rabid clowns act like he was direct infusing anabolic steroids. Floyd did the paperwork so he got the medical treatment. Manny "I no English" Pac did not do the paper work and did not surround himself with people smart enough to handle basic paper work - Roach, Arum, Koncz...so he did not get the treatment. It's that simple. Yall bash on Floyd for owing taxes every year because he DOESN'T file them...doesnt do the paperwork. So Floyd pays major penalties. Typical PacFUCKS want it both ways as usual KTFO6, UD12, UD12 to a goddamn Aussie plumber named Joe lmfao...be serious lol don't confuse me for a pact@rd. the tue was retroactive, which is highly irregular.

So you're trying to say that 170lbs was the rehydration limit? No, Canelo Alvarez weighed below 170 pounds on fight night is my point. Whereas he usually weighs above 170 pounds most of the time.

If you're no longer arguing that a catchweight is a rehydration clause, and there's now a sensible argument that Alvarez had to get off some mass (which would explain why he got almost up to his usual 170/171lbs for a fight), you've just trapped yourself into a corner. Floyd isn't targeting the middleweight division, he's simply targeting Golovkin. And in Golovkin, to put it flatly, he sees a man with limited skills that he knows he can utterly outclass. Skills are skills, and you should finally acknowledge that. Except no, Canelo Alavarez weighed less against Floyd Mayweather Jr than he usually does. Against Amir Khan, there wasn't any catch weight and he was subsequently able to rehydrate to a higher weight than against Floyd Mayweather Jr. The same applies when he fought Gennady Golovkin. If anything, this further supports my argument, that Mayweather has never beaten anybody that is Golovkin's size without any catch weights or rehydration clauses. The closest boxer to Golovkin was Canelo Alvarez and he had to fight him at a catch weight. You see, those claims are utter speculation! 'Limited skills' and 'utterly outclass'. You're claiming he 'see it that way'. Well then why didn't Mayweather fight Golovkin when he had the chance? Why didn't Mayweather fight Canelo Alvarez without imposing catch weights? You still haven't answered those questions. In other words, your claims are totally unfounded and baseless. I could claim with the same amount of value that Golovkin sees Mayweather as someone with 'limited skills' that he can utterly outclass at 147 pounds. However, it's a baseless statement because Golovkin has no feats at beating someone at Mayweather's caliber at 147 pounds. You do realize that Golovkin has the best 160 pound record of the last decade? In other words, if Mayweather targets Golovkin, he by default also targets the entire middleweight division. Skills are subjective. They mean nothing, in and of themselves. A boxer is as only as skilled as their record. If they have the best record in their respective weight division, then they are the most skilled in that weight division. Golovkin has the best record at 160 pounds. Therefore, he is the most skilled 160 pound boxer. Mayweather has 0 feats at 160 pounds. Therefore, he isn't any more skilled than a bum / journeyman at the 160 pound division. You are only as good as what you prove to be. How much has Mayweather proven himself at the 160 pound division? Absolutely nothing! Claiming he could do this or that at 160 pounds against the best in that division is utter speculation which amounts to nothing. It holds just as much value as me claiming Golovkin could beat prime Mayweather at 147 pounds.

Point to a single fight where Golovkin imposed his size on an opponent. His last 20 fights are basically on YouTube, so there's a good amount to choose from. Against Kell Brook for starters!

I'm not claiming a catch weight is a rehydration clause. You're attacking a straw-man! I understand they are two separate things. Your point actually supports my argument. Which is the fact that because Floyd Mayweather Jr needed a catch weight to fight Canelo Alvarez, questions his chances of beating an elite natural 160 pound boxer at 160 pounds without there being catch weight restrictions. If you're no longer arguing that a catchweight is a rehydration clause, and there's now a sensible argument that Alvarez had to get off some mass (which would explain why he got almost up to his usual 170/171lbs for a fight), you've just trapped yourself into a corner. Floyd isn't targeting the middleweight division, he's simply targeting Golovkin. And in Golovkin, to put it flatly, he sees a man with limited skills that he knows he can utterly outclass. Skills are skills, and you should finally acknowledge that.