If Abraham stayed at 160, does he break Hopkins' MW record?

Taylor wasn't AA's first trip north of 160 if i'm not mistaken. I think for around half of those previous 29 fights he came in over the MW limit, so i think it was just a matter of time before he couldn't hit the 160 mark anymore and moved to 168 for the long haul. He was on 10 defences and looked to be a 2/3 fight(s) a year guy. So to break Hopkins record (20 is it?), he'd need around 4 years all in all unbeaten. Around that time you'd imagine he would of had to of faced guys like Sturm, Martinez, Pavlik, Pirog, Maybe even Willams. Those guys were at different stages of their careers, but some of those guys, i couldn't see AA beating. He was a very solid MW though, i loved watching him around that time. Him at 160 at that time was a tough night for anyone. If he could of made weight for several more years, took easy fights amongst the tougher ones..he maybe could of ran it close. But i doubt all that would have happened.

only if he doesn't fit the elite guys.

sounds familiar doesnt it Yes it does. Floyd's best win was Diego Corrales and he went life and death with Maidana, a B-rate brawler.

Yep, people forget just how unbeatable he looked at 160, him and Kessler were favorites to win the tournament. His power was no joke at 160 and it made his style very effective. He was a tough m'fer the way he went 8 rounds against Miranda with a broken jaw, lost so much blood he could've died. Once he moved up his power lost effectiveness, as did his style, didn't help he was fighting such great super middles either. He's also like 5'9 and was still able to KO people at 168. Very strong guy--SAD the people around him couldn't convince him to go back down to 160.

His career best win was a life and death battle with Edison Miranda and Taylor coming off a KO loss. If he had broke the record it would have been against a long string of no-hopers and never-was opposition. sounds familiar doesnt it

I created a thread like this a while ago. He only went to 168 so he could fight in the super six. HE WAS A KILLER AT 160, would have had a MUCH Better career Yep, people forget just how unbeatable he looked at 160, him and Kessler were favorites to win the tournament. His power was no joke at 160 and it made his style very effective. He was a tough m'fer the way he went 8 rounds against Miranda with a broken jaw, lost so much blood he could've died. Once he moved up his power lost effectiveness, as did his style, didn't help he was fighting such great super middles either.

He might get stopped by Pavlik/GGG or gets U'Ded by Martinez. But Abraham was no slouch. I created a thread like this a while ago. He only went to 168 so he could fight in the super six. HE WAS A KILLER AT 160, would have had a MUCH Better career

maybe he would have lasted long I honestly believe elite welterweights would beat guys like Daniel Geale, Darren Barker, Martin Murray etc etc The MW division has sucked for the longest time thats why GGG has looked so good.

murry is chit. What is even his best win? murray is just used to hype the guys that beat him, hes a gatekeeper. He was ranked as a top 3-5 MW when ggg fought him, it simply shows the quality of the division which lacks it. He was elite relative to the division, of course he got exposed by Abraham.

Hahaha, you're trying to elevate Abraham's status in order to make Ward's win over him into a bigger deal than it was. Next you'll try to sell us on the greatness of Sakio Bika. Taylor already had three losses and was TKO'd prior to his fight with Abraham, so how is that a better win than GGG over Jacobs? GGG crushed a fresher, better version of Murray who Abraham barely squeaked past with a SD. Taylor beat Hopkins 2x, a prime Kassim Ouma, drew with Winky Wright, even in his rematch with Pavlik he went the distance and some even scored it a draw. I'm not even sure ggg could get past prime Ouma we saw him go life and death with him as late as 2011. Hopkins? Forget about it, he can barely get past DJ and Canelo, face busted up by Brook too. You're seriously trying to compare him to Jacobs? DJ never avenged his loss, he became an elite MW by default due to Pirog retiring. Abraham was already waaaay past his prime at least by 5 years when he fought Murray, he was struggling with Stieglitz FFS and got utterly dominated by Zurdo. Murray still went 11 with ggg, didn't suffer a violent KO, didn't show any chinny effects against Abraham, he simply got out boxed.

You forgot to mention he went 8 rounds with a severely broken jaw against Miranda. He overcame the odds unlike erm, certain other fighters that never challenge themselves. http://www.mightyfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/abraham-jaw.jpg Taylor was still a fine fighter, he punched himself out the 1st time against Pavik and managed to go the distance with him in the rematch. At 30+, years past his prime and numerous losses he was still able to defeat an elite middleweight Martin Murray. A top 5 win the on the current middleweight champion's resume. murry is chit. What is even his best win? murray is just used to hype the guys that beat him, hes a gatekeeper.

It's a boxing forum. Even when he was severely past his prime, been through several tough fights he was still capable of taking out a top 5 MW in Martin Murray. Who knows? Ifs, buts and other hypothetically created scenarios and questions related to them aren't conducive to any productive discussions. There is no way to answer your question. Perhaps he does, perhaps he doesn't. Perhaps if Arthur Abraham stayed at 160 pounds and attempted to break Hopkin's record, would fans criticize him for not challenging himself in other divisions? Would he still get sufficient enough credit he deserves for the feat?

Abraham had a lot of flaws. He had decent power but his stamina and technique was horrible. Miranda pretty much beat him but fouled his way to a loss. Taylor was winning that fight until he became Jermaine Taylor and got knocked out. Pavlik would have definitely beat him and he'd end up moving up anyway.

Murray was an elite MW in the division's current state in the same way ggg is an elite MW relative to the current state of 160. Abraham in his prime always outclassed his opponents and his win over Taylor is still better than Jacobs. As late as 2011 ggg was still going life and death with a passed it Kassim Ouma. 160 is still trying to rebound from the Super 6 and Martinez, Pirog, Pavlik, Hopkins departures. Hahaha, you're trying to elevate Abraham's status in order to make Ward's win over him into a bigger deal than it was. Next you'll try to sell us on the greatness of Sakio Bika. Taylor already had three losses and was TKO'd prior to his fight with Abraham, so how is that a better win than GGG over Jacobs? GGG crushed a fresher, better version of Murray who Abraham barely squeaked past with a SD.

AA moved up to 168 because he couldn't make 160 any more. It had nothing to do with chasing greatness. He was even hospitalized for cutting weight if I remember correctly.

Martin Murray is an elite MW? Tell that to the GGG haters, LOL. Abraham was tough, and he was durable, but certainly not elite level competition. Murray was an elite MW in the division's current state in the same way ggg is an elite MW relative to the current state of 160. Abraham in his prime always outclassed his opponents and his win over Taylor is still better than Jacobs. As late as 2011 ggg was still going life and death with a passed it Kassim Ouma. 160 is still trying to rebound from the Super 6 and Martinez, Pirog, Pavlik, Hopkins departures.

I just tried googling it but couldn't find anything. I'm wondering now if I'm mistaken. I could swear that it happened but maybe it was Miranda and not Abraham..? http://www.rp-online.de/sport/boxen/abraham-sagt-wm-kampf-ab-aid-1.1640563 Thats the only thing I could find. After the weigh-in for the Raul Marquez fight, he got sick overnight with fever, but it doesnt say if it was due to weight problems.

Source? From the weights he consistently made it to .5lb below the 160lb limit. I remember reading about it at the time. Here's the first link I clicked on. https://www.badlefthook.com/2009/6/21/920384/arthur-abraham-moving-to-super "According to Bild.de (link in German), Arthur Abraham's fight against Mahir Oral next week will be Arthur Abraham's last at middleweight. Despite being a bit on the short side, Abraham has long had problems with making the 160 pound middleweight limit, and without a big fight at middleweight in immediate sight, he plans on moving to super middleweight, which is a much stronger weight class overall with more opportunities for big name fights."

You forgot to mention he went 8 rounds with a severely broken jaw against Miranda. He overcame the odds unlike erm, certain other fighters that never challenge themselves. http://www.mightyfighter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/abraham-jaw.jpg Taylor was still a fine fighter, he punched himself out the 1st time against Pavik and managed to go the distance with him in the rematch. At 30+, years past his prime and numerous losses he was still able to defeat an elite middleweight Martin Murray. A top 5 win the on the current middleweight champion's resume. Martin Murray is an elite MW? Tell that to the GGG haters, LOL. Abraham was tough, and he was durable, but certainly not elite level competition.

AA moved up to 168 because he couldn't make 160 any more. It had nothing to do with chasing greatness. Source? From the weights he consistently made it to .5lb below the 160lb limit.