Where do you rate Floyd in ATG p4p list?

yeah but you leaving out that a focused pernell made a very close to peak, high rank atg like chavez hit air, something we wanted to see floyd do, but nope nada... Man Floyd is ALWAYS focused, what are you talking about!? And Chavez is a squared up brawler with a few skills. Mayweather was old as dirt, fighting guys way too big and young for him, and did them WORSE than Pernell did a damn Chavez. Mayweather is more proven, has better skills, and tougher resume than a mf Pernell. Floyd is the greatest of all time, its not even close. Who is Chavez and Pernell dude!? Lol

So many morons said nonsense about how Pernell had better defense than Floyd. That mf used to get hit all the damn time, used to do the same o'l dipsey-do, bob and weaves. Floyd was on a whole new level, and Floyd aint no defensive fighter. He's a pureboxer. yeah but you leaving out that a focused pernell made a very close to peak, high rank atg like chavez hit air, something we wanted to see floyd do, but nope nada...

I have no words You all have to get over that mess, where the throwback fighters are something that they actually arent. These are flatout mismatch fights. The sport will never grow, when everytime a new guy comes along, we use him as a stepping stone for the throwback fighters being better. So many morons said nonsense about how Pernell had better defense than Floyd. That mf used to get hit all the damn time, used to do the same o'l dipsey-do, bob and weaves. Floyd was on a whole new level, and Floyd aint no defensive fighter. He's a pureboxer. Its a disservice to the sport that the casual fans never really understood what they were witnessing. I could go on for days, but I wont. You will never learn.

"A chance" LOL We never seen the 40's version. Thats like saying the 140 version of Mayweather, scorches SRR. SRR vs ANY version of Floyd, is a flatout mismatch. SRR is an outdated fighter. Stop saying nonsense about how he is going to beat even a prospect from our era. Crawford would whip his azz. I guarantee, he would be shocked that Crawford even exists. Lets leave Floyd and Pac out of it, because those are mismatch fights. I have no words

It means you're a funny guy. Floyd might have a chance against the 60's version of the sugar man but the 40's version would murder lil floyd "A chance" LOL We never seen the 40's version. Thats like saying the 140 version of Mayweather, scorches SRR. SRR vs ANY version of Floyd, is a flatout mismatch. SRR is an outdated fighter. Stop saying nonsense about how he is going to beat even a prospect from our era. Crawford would whip his azz. I guarantee, he would be shocked that Crawford even exists. Lets leave Floyd and Pac out of it, because those are mismatch fights.

It's a fight that could've happened but it just didn't make sense because Margarito hadn't beaten any names at that point. I didn't really want to see it until Margarito beat Cotto (we know why he beat him) but he lost to Mosley and lost his chance. I don't think it would've been an entertaining fight either since he was flat-footed and slow and Floyd would've seen his punches coming a mile away. That fight instead of Baldomir? It would've basically been the same fight. Plus i'm glad the cheater didn't get paid. He still could've got it, but lost to Shane & Cotto. I mean of course he was a business man, but at the same time he fought the guys we wanted. We wanted Mosley, got it, Cotto, got it, Canelo, got it, Maidana 1 and 2, got them, Pacquiao got it. He did leave Bob Arum which is why the Cotto and Pacquiao fights didn't happen earlier, but would you want that scumbag/crook handling your career and getting millions of dollars from your hard work? You wouldn't. That's why Pacquiao can't retire and is still fighting, because Bob made way more off his fights than he did. Pacquiao in 2010 was better, but Floyd was better then as well. To me Marquez and Mosley were the last times we saw "prime" Floyd. Manny would've probably done better, but he wouldn't take the test which in no way is Floyd's fault. I think they were both equally past-prime when they did fight so the only difference was it wasn't as exciting as it would've been. Floyd still would have won comfortably, just too smart, skilled. Too versatile as well. You're right fighters of the past like Duran and Chavez weren't nearly as careful/business smart as Floyd, but that's why Duran is still doing speaking events today because he needs the money. Plus he fought 100 plus times while Floyd did half that and has made hundreds of millions more than anyone else. Of course from a fans perspective we don't look at it like that, but if you were Floyd you would think of yourself first then fans second. It's just like in your ordinary life, would you do a harder job for less money just because someone else wants you to do it? Hell no! Of course not. And yeah I want to see great fights but we need to understand these things. Everyone's record deserves scrutiny, you could even say Sugar Ray Robinson didn't fight Charley Burley or Leonard didn't fight Pryor etc. Even the Top 5 GOATS didn't fight everybody but Floyd fought pretty much everyone we wanted. Good arguments.

You're back again!! I respectfully disagree. At least on the margarito issue. I blame baldomir. If he hadn't beaten zab, then November 2006 would have been open for margarito vs Floyd. Floyd, pre-oscar took on all comers. Post-oscar he became more of a business man. Maybe he's right. I mean, I won't be there to wipe his arse if he doesn't know his own name. The pacquiao who demolished cotto in 2010 made Floyd nervous. Now that would have been blood, sweat and tears. Pity it didn't happen. Blame on both sides. However Duran or mickey walker wouldn't have given two phuks what pacquiao "was on". They would have fought him in his back garden. Floyd was always just a smidgen too calculating for me. Hes right up there in terms of skill and smarts and ring IQ. I'm a huge Floyd fan but his record deserves scrutiny. U can have the last word It's a fight that could've happened but it just didn't make sense because Margarito hadn't beaten any names at that point. I didn't really want to see it until Margarito beat Cotto (we know why he beat him) but he lost to Mosley and lost his chance. I don't think it would've been an entertaining fight either since he was flat-footed and slow and Floyd would've seen his punches coming a mile away. That fight instead of Baldomir? It would've basically been the same fight. Plus i'm glad the cheater didn't get paid. He still could've got it, but lost to Shane & Cotto. I mean of course he was a business man, but at the same time he fought the guys we wanted. We wanted Mosley, got it, Cotto, got it, Canelo, got it, Maidana 1 and 2, got them, Pacquiao got it. He did leave Bob Arum which is why the Cotto and Pacquiao fights didn't happen earlier, but would you want that scumbag/crook handling your career and getting millions of dollars from your hard work? You wouldn't. That's why Pacquiao can't retire and is still fighting, because Bob made way more off his fights than he did. Pacquiao in 2010 was better, but Floyd was better then as well. To me Marquez and Mosley were the last times we saw "prime" Floyd. Manny would've probably done better, but he wouldn't take the test which in no way is Floyd's fault. I think they were both equally past-prime when they did fight so the only difference was it wasn't as exciting as it would've been. Floyd still would have won comfortably, just too smart, skilled. Too versatile as well. You're right fighters of the past like Duran and Chavez weren't nearly as careful/business smart as Floyd, but that's why Duran is still doing speaking events today because he needs the money. Plus he fought 100 plus times while Floyd did half that and has made hundreds of millions more than anyone else. Of course from a fans perspective we don't look at it like that, but if you were Floyd you would think of yourself first then fans second. It's just like in your ordinary life, would you do a harder job for less money just because someone else wants you to do it? Hell no! Of course not. And yeah I want to see great fights but we need to understand these things. Everyone's record deserves scrutiny, you could even say Sugar Ray Robinson didn't fight Charley Burley or Leonard didn't fight Pryor etc. Even the Top 5 GOATS didn't fight everybody but Floyd fought pretty much everyone we wanted.

Haha. I mean, there's no right or wrong way to box. It's like in any sport you get great defensive teams/great offensive teams. Floyd does think defense first but we've gotta remember he was a monster at 130 then started to have hand problems early on in his career which forced him to change his style. He still gave us a lot of entertaining fights though like Ndou, Corley, Gatti, Judah, Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, Maidana 1 etc. The thing about Margarito was he might've been ranked good, but until he beat Cotto's head in with bricks the general public didn't know who he was. So when you think about that you realise the fight made no sense. Not when Floyd could do record breaking numbers against De La Hoya (Who everyone wanted to see him fight and who was THE biggest cash cow of that era) and Hatton (A fight tons of people demanded which also did great numbers). I have SRL's book and I admire him a lot but i'll always hold not giving Hagler a rematch against him. He retired then magically came back once Marvin retired, which I thought was disrespectful, but of course he's still a legend and a pioneer. Floyd went through the divisions too and fought top guy after top guy, it's just that he did it so easily we don't give him as much credit. I admire him because I love the art/skill and technique of boxing and in that respect he's incredible to watch. It's not his fault that there was no one in this era who could push him like Hearns/Leonard or Leonard/Hagler but we shouldn't hold that against him because there have been plenty of greats in this era, it's just that he's a step or two above all of them. There's guys like Marquez and Pacquiao (Legendary fighters) and then there's Floyd (One of the GOATS). Who makes legends look second-rate/ordinary. The way I look at the whole debate is it's like when you play one of those "Fight Night" games. Sure there's guys who hit harder than Floyd and who came along in better eras, but if we're talking all the skills across the board he's gonna be better than everyone else. That's not to say he beats everyone in history, because none of those guys did either, but as an all around boxer he's the most complete. Legacy is totally different because Ali for example is actually bigger than boxing. Floyd will never be loved like Ali/Sugar Ray Leonard/Manny Pacquiao and other guys, but ultimately he's the smartest, most versatile and the most skilled there's ever been. You're back again!! I respectfully disagree. At least on the margarito issue. I blame baldomir. If he hadn't beaten zab, then November 2006 would have been open for margarito vs Floyd. Floyd, pre-oscar took on all comers. Post-oscar he became more of a business man. Maybe he's right. I mean, I won't be there to wipe his arse if he doesn't know his own name. The pacquiao who demolished cotto in 2010 made Floyd nervous. Now that would have been blood, sweat and tears. Pity it didn't happen. Blame on both sides. However Duran or mickey walker wouldn't have given two phuks what pacquiao "was on". They would have fought him in his back garden. Floyd was always just a smidgen too calculating for me. Hes right up there in terms of skill and smarts and ring IQ. I'm a huge Floyd fan but his record deserves scrutiny. U can have the last word

Jesus Christ, that was longer than my post. I'll keep mine short because in 10 posts time we'll be writing whole chapters. Floyd is defence first. Nothing wrong with that. SRR was offence first. Nothing wrong with that. Well agree to disagree. Well agree to disagree on the margarito thing too. It was THE fight to make at 147. I was hoping they'd fight in 2006 in or around the zab or baldomir fights. Can't argue with your keep winning line. De LA hoya was a money fight. Floyd had to take it. Cotto had suffered two bad beatings, but a good win.(tougher than expected) Canelo young and slightly green but a very good win Pryor was offered the fight in 81 after Leonard beat Duran. Multiple sources say it is true including breadman. Not sure about the leonard vs hagler rematch. I marvel at Floyd's skills but the fighters who jump up from one original weight class to another and take on the top dogs are the men I revere. Men like Fitzsimmons greb walker Armstrong srr. Two people who respect each others opinions??? I thought this was a boxing forum/school yard!! Haha. I mean, there's no right or wrong way to box. It's like in any sport you get great defensive teams/great offensive teams. Floyd does think defense first but we've gotta remember he was a monster at 130 then started to have hand problems early on in his career which forced him to change his style. He still gave us a lot of entertaining fights though like Ndou, Corley, Gatti, Judah, Hatton, Mosley, Cotto, Maidana 1 etc. The thing about Margarito was he might've been ranked good, but until he beat Cotto's head in with bricks the general public didn't know who he was. So when you think about that you realise the fight made no sense. Not when Floyd could do record breaking numbers against De La Hoya (Who everyone wanted to see him fight and who was THE biggest cash cow of that era) and Hatton (A fight tons of people demanded which also did great numbers). I have SRL's book and I admire him a lot but i'll always hold not giving Hagler a rematch against him. He retired then magically came back once Marvin retired, which I thought was disrespectful, but of course he's still a legend and a pioneer. Floyd went through the divisions too and fought top guy after top guy, it's just that he did it so easily we don't give him as much credit. I admire him because I love the art/skill and technique of boxing and in that respect he's incredible to watch. It's not his fault that there was no one in this era who could push him like Hearns/Leonard or Leonard/Hagler but we shouldn't hold that against him because there have been plenty of greats in this era, it's just that he's a step or two above all of them. There's guys like Marquez and Pacquiao (Legendary fighters) and then there's Floyd (One of the GOATS). Who makes legends look second-rate/ordinary. The way I look at the whole debate is it's like when you play one of those "Fight Night" games. Sure there's guys who hit harder than Floyd and who came along in better eras, but if we're talking all the skills across the board he's gonna be better than everyone else. That's not to say he beats everyone in history, because none of those guys did either, but as an all around boxer he's the most complete. Legacy is totally different because Ali for example is actually bigger than boxing. Floyd will never be loved like Ali/Sugar Ray Leonard/Manny Pacquiao and other guys, but ultimately he's the smartest, most versatile and the most skilled there's ever been.

top 25 for sure. i'd have to look not only at floyd's record, but every other record of ever other fighter i consider at or around hte top 25 all time. needless to say i have not done this to the degree necessary to truly rate him historically, and none of you have either.

I'd have Oscar and Mosley beating Floyd at lightweight. Floyd didn't look great at lightweight. I even pick Ken Buchanan, Ismael Laguna and Carlos Ortiz to run Floyd close at 135. Ike Williams and Duran would fvck Floyd up at 135. Not sure about The great Benny Leonard due to lack of film but according to Ray Arcel Benny was the toughest, most skilled and cleverest fighter he ever trained which is scary because Arcel trained prime Duran. The great welters who I have no doubt would beat the best of Floyd Mayweather at welterweight are Ray Robinson, Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns, Duran of Montreal vintage, Kid Gavilan and Jose Napoles. The Floyd who turned up vs Maidana would have been absolutely destroyed by all of the above. I agree with all of that......what about Carmen Basilio?

I dont know what any of this means, but like I say, Floyd from his worst performances, would white wash SRR. SRR is from the 60's. These are mismatch fights.... It means you're a funny guy. Floyd might have a chance against the 60's version of the sugar man but the 40's version would murder lil floyd

Hahaha, the comedy club is down the hall!!! I dont know what any of this means, but like I say, Floyd from his worst performances, would white wash SRR. SRR is from the 60's. These are mismatch fights....

Well Im just saying, that come forward fighters like Chino and Castillo have been dominated by Floyd forever. Idgaf how fresh he was against Chino he had aged. Now I will put the Floyd who faced Canelo at 37, months prior, and he would TKO SRR. Too strong, and aggressive. And When Floyd fought Castillio he had a bum shoulder from the second round. That isnt an excuse he made up after the fight. Thats something he complained about from the second round. Even the Floyd from the rematch would humiliate SRR. SRR is from the 60's, he's not giving Floyd a tough fight. But of course if SRR had problems with Lomatta, who is a terrible fighter, its no way he could challenge Floyd. Even the Floyd from the Chino and Castillio fights, on his worst night, would be too much for SRR. Hahaha, the comedy club is down the hall!!!

All of those guys are legends and being a fan of the sport first I love guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Lopez, Whitaker, Roy, I could go on and on and name even more. I still watch those guys regularly now because I really enjoyed seeing them. It's no disrespect to any of them all i'm saying is when I watch Floyd, I feel like he has the most tools and is the most efficient/complete boxer in history. SRR was legendary but didn't have Floyd's defense, same with Leonard and Roy. Meanwhile Whitaker had an amazing defense but didn't have Floyd's offense. There have been great complete fighters before, but there's never been someone who could adjust and adapt to any style and dominate them. Floyd has the best plus-minus of anyone in boxing history and while many legends came before him, none of them were able to dominate the competiton like he did. He's beat almost 30 world champs across 20 years of boxing. That along with him being the most well-rounded boxer ever makes him the GOAT to me. If you're talking legacy that's totally different but skill-wise I can't find anyone who was better. Ok so Margarito was once considered a good WW, but let's be real NOBODY had heard of him at the time so it made zero sense for Floyd to fight him. Maybe they didn't want to fight him because they suspected he was loading his gloves, which was smart. I wouldn't have fought him either if I knew that, would you? Bottom line he had chances to fight Floyd even after the gloves scandal, but instead he lost every round to Cotto and got stopped. Not to mention Mosley beating him half to death. He blew his chance. All these guys could've fought him, they just had to keep winning. Once you lose, it kills momentum & the fight stops making sense. As I posted earlier in this thread, Floyd tried to fight Cotto in 2005 and 2006, Bob Arum and Cotto's own trainer said he wasn't ready. He also tried to fight Shane in 1999 and 2006 and Mosley ducked him both times saying he "would rather take a vacation". It's the same deal with Pacquiao. Bob shielded these guys from Floyd because he didn't want his new cash cows to get beat up by a guy who had just said "**** you" and left him. Williams? There was no demand for that fight besides a few super-hardcore fans but he got beat by Martinez and Lara which killed the potential interest. Even then he had a chance to get the fight because he was scheduled to fight Canelo in September 2012 but unfortunately missed his chance due to his accident. If he beat Canelo in 2012 he would've fought Floyd in 2013. It's even the same deal with Hatton, Floyd wanted to fight him after the Tszyu fight and they declined saying they wanted more time. The fight being at 147 actually helped Ricky because he struggled with the weight. Plus the fight got way bigger in those 2 years. There's really no one else, he fought everyone he should have. I really can't fault his resume at 147 or 154. At 147 he fought all the top guys that weren't being held back by Bob Arum. Then at 154 he fought Oscar De La Hoya (an ATG coming off an impressive win). Miguel Cotto at his most comfortable weight after 3 impressive knockout wins in a row. Then Canelo who hasn't lost since and is probably going to be the future of boxing. Certainly for Mexico and he'll probably be the closest thing we have to a PPV king too. Yeah there's a couple of guys he could've fought but there was no truly great fighter who we wanted to see him fight who he didn't, he beat all of them. It's not like Sugar Ray Leonard, I love the guy but he didn't take on Aaron Pryor or give Hagler an immediate rematch of maybe THE most controversial fight/decision ever, and he's still an ATG. I respect your post and i'm a huge fan of SRR, got his books, seen all the documentaries etc, but everything evolves and I feel like Floyd has surpassed him as the greatest of all time. Of course you can't compare the amount of fights, and he may have a better "legacy" and be viewed more favorably, but if we're just watching both of them and saying who was better in terms of skills and total attributes across the board, I gotta say Floyd was better. Every aspect of his game was a 9 or 10, and the best IQ/conditioning too. I'm tired after that too :lol1: Jesus Christ, that was longer than my post. I'll keep mine short because in 10 posts time we'll be writing whole chapters. Floyd is defence first. Nothing wrong with that. SRR was offence first. Nothing wrong with that. Well agree to disagree. Well agree to disagree on the margarito thing too. It was THE fight to make at 147. I was hoping they'd fight in 2006 in or around the zab or baldomir fights. Can't argue with your keep winning line. De LA hoya was a money fight. Floyd had to take it. Cotto had suffered two bad beatings, but a good win.(tougher than expected) Canelo young and slightly green but a very good win Pryor was offered the fight in 81 after Leonard beat Duran. Multiple sources say it is true including breadman. Not sure about the leonard vs hagler rematch. I marvel at Floyd's skills but the fighters who jump up from one original weight class to another and take on the top dogs are the men I revere. Men like Fitzsimmons greb walker Armstrong srr. Two people who respect each others opinions??? I thought this was a boxing forum/school yard!!

Floyd was the freshest 37 year old in the history of boxing. I'm just saying that if a come forward fighter like maidana and Castillo cud give him hell what cud a murderous punching sugar ray Robinson do??? The fonz was slick and i m no fonzy Well Im just saying, that come forward fighters like Chino and Castillo have been dominated by Floyd forever. Idgaf how fresh he was against Chino he had aged. Now I will put the Floyd who faced Canelo at 37, months prior, and he would TKO SRR. Too strong, and aggressive. And When Floyd fought Castillio he had a bum shoulder from the second round. That isnt an excuse he made up after the fight. Thats something he complained about from the second round. Even the Floyd from the rematch would humiliate SRR. SRR is from the 60's, he's not giving Floyd a tough fight. But of course if SRR had problems with Lomatta, who is a terrible fighter, its no way he could challenge Floyd. Even the Floyd from the Chino and Castillio fights, on his worst night, would be too much for SRR.

Of course there's a debate regarding skills. The sugar man was an offensive machine so he was always going to get hit more than Floyd. Willie pep, ezzard Charles, Charley burley, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard,locche, ali, louis, Duran, leonard , sweet pea, Roy Jones, James Toney, ricardo lopez, rigendeaux, are all in with a shout for most skillful. No doubt Floyd belongs in there but to call him the most skillful fighter ever, without debate is pushing it. You're dead wrong about margarito. In the 2004 ring magazine end of year rankings he was ranked no.1. Corey spinks was champion. In 2005, margarito was no. 1, Judah was champ. Now I know Floyd wasn't at welterweight in 04 and 05 but I'm illustrating that margarito was far from a nobody. Then in 2006 when Floyd dethroned baldomir, margarito was no. 1 contender. So for three straight years margarito was no.1 ranked contender, the three welterweight champions didn't fight him. Instead of taking 19 months off, he could have fought margarito, cotto, mosley, williams. Or 3 out of those 4. Williams was available in 200limit On to the lineals. 130, you're right 135, you're right 140 I was gonna go on the attack about gatti but I looked at the ring ratings for the end of 2004 and, **** me, gatti is there at number 1 with tszyu as champ. I'm on the ropes here. He might not have been no.1 by the time they met in june but that's nit picking. Would have loved to see him fight hatton for the 140 lineal title instead of 147 147 you cud split his welterweight career in two. Pre and post his first retirement. Still think there were 1 or 2 misses in his first run but he won the lineal title from baldomir Second run is good but mosley and pacquiao were a little too late even though his accountant wud disagree. 154 shudda fought canelo at the division limit. Canelo cudda weighed 200lbs and Floyd wudda beat him so that's a small minus for him. When there were only 8 divisions, sugar ray Robinson fought and beat lightweight champ Sammy angott twice. He cleaned out welterweight three times over. He won the middleweight title 5 times And unbelievably was beating light-heavyweight champ joey maxim until heat exhaustion got the better of him. Stand up for the sugar man!!! I'm ****in exhausted after that All of those guys are legends and being a fan of the sport first I love guys like Sugar Ray Robinson, Ali, Leonard, Hagler, Lopez, Whitaker, Roy, I could go on and on and name even more. I still watch those guys regularly now because I really enjoyed seeing them. It's no disrespect to any of them all i'm saying is when I watch Floyd, I feel like he has the most tools and is the most efficient/complete boxer in history. SRR was legendary but didn't have Floyd's defense, same with Leonard and Roy. Meanwhile Whitaker had an amazing defense but didn't have Floyd's offense. There have been great complete fighters before, but there's never been someone who could adjust and adapt to any style and dominate them. Floyd has the best plus-minus of anyone in boxing history and while many legends came before him, none of them were able to dominate the competiton like he did. He's beat almost 30 world champs across 20 years of boxing. That along with him being the most well-rounded boxer ever makes him the GOAT to me. If you're talking legacy that's totally different but skill-wise I can't find anyone who was better. Ok so Margarito was once considered a good WW, but let's be real NOBODY had heard of him at the time so it made zero sense for Floyd to fight him. Maybe they didn't want to fight him because they suspected he was loading his gloves, which was smart. I wouldn't have fought him either if I knew that, would you? Bottom line he had chances to fight Floyd even after the gloves scandal, but instead he lost every round to Cotto and got stopped. Not to mention Mosley beating him half to death. He blew his chance. All these guys could've fought him, they just had to keep winning. Once you lose, it kills momentum & the fight stops making sense. As I posted earlier in this thread, Floyd tried to fight Cotto in 2005 and 2006, Bob Arum and Cotto's own trainer said he wasn't ready. He also tried to fight Shane in 1999 and 2006 and Mosley ducked him both times saying he "would rather take a vacation". It's the same deal with Pacquiao. Bob shielded these guys from Floyd because he didn't want his new cash cows to get beat up by a guy who had just said "**** you" and left him. Williams? There was no demand for that fight besides a few super-hardcore fans but he got beat by Martinez and Lara which killed the potential interest. Even then he had a chance to get the fight because he was scheduled to fight Canelo in September 2012 but unfortunately missed his chance due to his accident. If he beat Canelo in 2012 he would've fought Floyd in 2013. It's even the same deal with Hatton, Floyd wanted to fight him after the Tszyu fight and they declined saying they wanted more time. The fight being at 147 actually helped Ricky because he struggled with the weight. Plus the fight got way bigger in those 2 years. There's really no one else, he fought everyone he should have. I really can't fault his resume at 147 or 154. At 147 he fought all the top guys that weren't being held back by Bob Arum. Then at 154 he fought Oscar De La Hoya (an ATG coming off an impressive win). Miguel Cotto at his most comfortable weight after 3 impressive knockout wins in a row. Then Canelo who hasn't lost since and is probably going to be the future of boxing. Certainly for Mexico and he'll probably be the closest thing we have to a PPV king too. Yeah there's a couple of guys he could've fought but there was no truly great fighter who we wanted to see him fight who he didn't, he beat all of them. It's not like Sugar Ray Leonard, I love the guy but he didn't take on Aaron Pryor or give Hagler an immediate rematch of maybe THE most controversial fight/decision ever, and he's still an ATG. I respect your post and i'm a huge fan of SRR, got his books, seen all the documentaries etc, but everything evolves and I feel like Floyd has surpassed him as the greatest of all time. Of course you can't compare the amount of fights, and he may have a better "legacy" and be viewed more favorably, but if we're just watching both of them and saying who was better in terms of skills and total attributes across the board, I gotta say Floyd was better. Every aspect of his game was a 9 or 10, and the best IQ/conditioning too. I'm tired after that too :lol1:

26 champions is very relevant when you look at the fact that all or almost all of them were #1 or #2 in their weight class. Once again, go compare that to past all time greats. Those guys simply didn't fight top quality like that virtually every fight. People want to only remember 4 or 5 fights for some of the greats when they all fought total bums right in the middle of their runs. Mayweather didn't take on buns mid career like so many others. In fact, after his 17th fight he doesn't have a single "bum" on his card and that includes Berto who was a much better fighter than a ton of guys on Duran's, Hearn's, SRL's, and SRR's cards when they were prime. McGregor is the only bum he fought after his 16th fight. When you're always fighting a top 3 guy in that weight you are taking risks, boxing is about matchups and you're bound to find the wrong match up when you are fighting champions. And in fact Floyd did this twice with Castillo and Madaina, both great fighters who were bad match ups for Floyd. He beat them closely and then gave immediate rematches to them. That is legendary and he deserves more credit.[/QFloyd is a great Henry Brussels. Also he's only fought twice a year so he shouldn't have a bum on his record. Talent pool has greatly diminished in this era Castillo and maidana are not great fighters. Very good, tough as nails fighters. Floyd gets a lot of credit for jumping straight back in there with them Floyd is a great fighter

Well apparently Whitey made up the legend of Harry Greb so that they had a white guy to compete for the title as GOAT with Robinson, Armstrong and Langford. They all check under their beds at night for harry greb

There's really no debate regarding skills, there's nobody who had as many aspects to their game or who was as smart. Sugar Ray Robinson maybe, but his defense wasn't on Floyd's level. Bumgarito was a flat-footed nobody and no one wanted to see Floyd fight him, this is revisionist history. They wanted to see him fight DLH and Hatton which he did. In 2006 nobody in the world knew who Bumgarito was, I think he was ranked like 5 or 6 at Welterweight and Baldomir was ranked #1 and had went 8+ years without a loss, so you're delusional if you think it would've been better for him to fight a barely ranked no-name instead of the lineal undisputed champion. Then he got killed by Mosley so Floyd fought Mosley. If he beat Mosley or Cotto he still could've got the fight but he got his ass kicked both times. Williams could've got the Floyd fight if not for his accident. He was scheduled to fight Canelo in 2012 before Canelo fought Floyd so he would've got the fight if he won but unfortunately the accident happened. Even still though, I liked Paul and he was an entertaining fighter to watch, but he CLEARLY got outboxed by Lara who got beat by Canelo so do you really think he would've been a challenge for Floyd? He was a SITTING DUCK for punches. It would've been a mismatch. Ok then let's go with the lineal champs then. Floyd beat the lineal #1 guy at 130, 135, 140, 147 and Canelo's been the best guy at 154 for the last several years and he beat him too. Even if you're gonna say Gatti wasn't #1 at 140 he beat Hatton who was #1 at 140. Has there ever been another guy in boxing history who beat the #1 ranked fighter in 5 different divisions? Sure there's lots of titlists but what Floyd has done is unmatched in boxing history. Whether you think he's TBE or not there's no doubt he should be in the conversation after all he's done. If we're just talking skills I gotta put him #1, sorry, gotta do it. Can't think of anyone better. Of course there's a debate regarding skills. The sugar man was an offensive machine so he was always going to get hit more than Floyd. Willie pep, ezzard Charles, Charley burley, Archie Moore, Benny Leonard,locche, ali, louis, Duran, leonard , sweet pea, Roy Jones, James Toney, ricardo lopez, rigendeaux, are all in with a shout for most skillful. No doubt Floyd belongs in there but to call him the most skillful fighter ever, without debate is pushing it. You're dead wrong about margarito. In the 2004 ring magazine end of year rankings he was ranked no.1. Corey spinks was champion. In 2005, margarito was no. 1, Judah was champ. Now I know Floyd wasn't at welterweight in 04 and 05 but I'm illustrating that margarito was far from a nobody. Then in 2006 when Floyd dethroned baldomir, margarito was no. 1 contender. So for three straight years margarito was no.1 ranked contender, the three welterweight champions didn't fight him. Instead of taking 19 months off, he could have fought margarito, cotto, mosley, williams. Or 3 out of those 4. Williams was available in 200limit On to the lineals. 130, you're right 135, you're right 140 I was gonna go on the attack about gatti but I looked at the ring ratings for the end of 2004 and, **** me, gatti is there at number 1 with tszyu as champ. I'm on the ropes here. He might not have been no.1 by the time they met in june but that's nit picking. Would have loved to see him fight hatton for the 140 lineal title instead of 147 147 you cud split his welterweight career in two. Pre and post his first retirement. Still think there were 1 or 2 misses in his first run but he won the lineal title from baldomir Second run is good but mosley and pacquiao were a little too late even though his accountant wud disagree. 154 shudda fought canelo at the division limit. Canelo cudda weighed 200lbs and Floyd wudda beat him so that's a small minus for him. When there were only 8 divisions, sugar ray Robinson fought and beat lightweight champ Sammy angott twice. He cleaned out welterweight three times over. He won the middleweight title 5 times And unbelievably was beating light-heavyweight champ joey maxim until heat exhaustion got the better of him. Stand up for the sugar man!!! I'm ****in exhausted after that