Massive inconsistency in Ring magazines top heavy list.

Again, Tyson was 20 not 19 lol And when I said fighters develop slower, I wasn't talking about number of fights, I was talking about a fghter's age. Someone like Loma, who only has a handful of fights is 26/27 right? Look at how much Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Benitez, Oscar, Tito et al had achieved by that AGE. Plus, it's a lot easier to be considered a top fighter now as there are 4, 5, 6 or at times, 7 different routes to getting a "world title". Take in all the super, regular, silver, diamond, daffy duck titles and every tom, dick and harry is a 3 weight "world" champ these days. Good points. I agree.

What's the name of the poster? What's the name of the website? I don't want to be banned from the site pal so I will tell you if you PM me. For all I know though, you could be his friend, or even him under a different name. I will risk it though.

Would you elaborate? I know another boxing forum where they have a clique of mods, who bully and hate anyone who has their own opinion, or who dares to find any fault with a fighter they like. Maybe it is the same guy. I have seen that one of them posts on here. A vile scumbag, who is sarcastic, bitter, hypocritical, a know it all, totally biased, twists facts to suit his arguments, and hates everyone apart from Tyson...who just happens to be possibly the last boxer anyone should admire, as a person anyway. What's the name of the poster? What's the name of the website?

I'm not saying was a puncher, I'm saying he was not a light puncher. He disfigured plenty fo faces and hurt plenty of opponents and holds stoppage victories over guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle etc. He really was a light puncher though. Of all the guys on that list, he punched the weakest. The stoppage over Liston was nothing to do with Sonny not being able to take it. Watch what he could take off the very hard punching Cleveland Williams, then watch his dive against Ali. Foreman was a combination of screwing native women whilst waiting for his cut to heal instead of training, the heat of Africa, and his running out of gas by throwing non stop haymakers. Frazier was down twice against Bonavena in the 2nd rd, yet Ali couldn't deck him even when Joe was exhausted in three separate bouts. The one time he did stop him was not because he hurt him, it was more because he couldn't see and was exhausted, not to mention Joe was said to be through. Ali mentioned this to Joe in the fight. Again it was not power that stopped Lyle. He hit him over and over and could not stop him, he couldn't ko him so he looked to the ref to stop it, even the ref didn't think he was taking too much so he continued to hit him until he did stop it. Not trying to argue with you, just saying what I have seen and read over the years. No offence.

Go back and read the article. Thomas Hauser explained how this list was compiled. They polled a 30 person panel of trainers, matchmakers, historians and media members. The list is simply the result of those polled. Thank you for your input. I am fully aware of how they compiled the list. But if you read some of the comments and criteria, you will see what I am getting at with my accusations of bias and hypocrisy.

I would like to point out the double standard and seemingly obvious bias that the article in the current Ring magazine shows regarding Holyfield. He is listed below people like Marciano and Frazier despite accomplishing MUCH more. Did anyone notice the massive hypocrisy in the criteria for being marked down in this list? Apparently the writer thinks that Holyfield didn't punch as hard as Marciano or Dempsey, and he goes on to state that to be able to fight you need a punch. Yet Ali who is the lightest puncher on the list, is NO1! Does this mean that Mayweather jnr, Sugar Ray Leonard, Willie Pep and Pernell Whittaker are not as good as guys in their weight classes who could punch harder? Holyfield dropped Bowe with one punch, Dempsey swarmed, and Marciano clubbed old men. The list is b.s. Go back and read the article. Thomas Hauser explained how this list was compiled. They polled a 30 person panel of trainers, matchmakers, historians and media members. The list is simply the result of those polled.

I am sorry but I don't agree with any of that. Ali himself even acknowledged that he was not a puncher, it is well known. Why did he never come close to decking Norton, who didn't have a great chin? In 3 fights. Why didn't he deck Patterson who had the weakest chin of any HW champ in history? In two fights. Why couldn't he come close to decking Leon Spinks, a novice cruiserweight? I could go on and on, but even light heavy Bob Foster said Ali couldn't bust a grape. Liston never had any fight that came close to the gross of Holyfield v Foreman, or vs Tyson, and had no fight anywhere near as exciting as Holy v Bowe. I'm not saying was a puncher, I'm saying he was not a light puncher. He disfigured plenty fo faces and hurt plenty of opponents and holds stoppage victories over guys like Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Lyle etc.

Ali was never light punching. But it was the sheer physical toll Ali took on Liston by making his miss, again and again, that broke the beasts resolve. At the end of the day Liston was a more well known and more historical heavyweight than Holyfield, which is the nature of these rankings from what I read. I am sorry but I don't agree with any of that. Ali himself even acknowledged that he was not a puncher, it is well known. Why did he never come close to decking Norton, who didn't have a great chin? In 3 fights. Why didn't he deck Patterson who had the weakest chin of any HW champ in history? In two fights. Why couldn't he come close to decking Leon Spinks, a novice cruiserweight? I could go on and on, but even light heavy Bob Foster said Ali couldn't bust a grape. Liston never had any fight that came close to the gross of Holyfield v Foreman, or vs Tyson, and had no fight anywhere near as exciting as Holy v Bowe.

why would anybody care what ring magazine says about anything? ring magazine is owned by golden boy promotions. there is no journalistic integrity. it is a propaganda tool. nothing more, nothing less. Not a lot of people know that pal. I have been a massive fan all my life and didn't know that either. I always knew that it was referred to as the bible of boxing.

Thanks for your input. I agree that 19 is an incredible age to win a version of the HW title, although he did have the best possible chance, being that he was like D'amato's son. and was therefore being groomed personally. How incredible was Benitez then, to have won a 15rd world title fight from a good champion, at only 17? Just want to explain that you misunderstood my point about todays boxers in comparison to old school ones. I wasn't saying that they develop slower, in fact exactly the opposite. There are guys in Ring magazines p4p list that have only had a handful of fights, like Inoue, and Lomanchenko. Also look at Joshua. What I was saying was guys in their 30's and 40's in the old days were a lot more worn out than today's equivalent, as they had much harder lives, less good food, and more fights. Those fights were often much more brutal than those today, and longer too. Thanks for reading. Again, Tyson was 20 not 19 lol And when I said fighters develop slower, I wasn't talking about number of fights, I was talking about a fghter's age. Someone like Loma, who only has a handful of fights is 26/27 right? Look at how much Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, Hearns, Leonard, Duran, Benitez, Oscar, Tito et al had achieved by that AGE. Plus, it's a lot easier to be considered a top fighter now as there are 4, 5, 6 or at times, 7 different routes to getting a "world title". Take in all the super, regular, silver, diamond, daffy duck titles and every tom, dick and harry is a 3 weight "world" champ these days.

You are welcome. No way on this earth though should Liston be above Holyfield. He had one defense against a guy with the weakest chin of all HW champs, and quit against light punching Clay. SOME LEGEND RIGHT THERE! Ali was never light punching. But it was the sheer physical toll Ali took on Liston by making his miss, again and again, that broke the beasts resolve. At the end of the day Liston was a more well known and more historical heavyweight than Holyfield, which is the nature of these rankings from what I read.

Just wanted to let you know in case you are interested, that I had missed some champs out the Holyfield beat. The list has been edited. Thanks for your time.

Thanks for posting the article! Thing is, this article is looking at who was the greatest heavyweight champion and part of tha tis based on a fighter's popularity and important to America and/or the world at the time. Let's be real here, the only two globally recognised heavyweight champs, and when I say that, I mean this scenario: walk into a tiny village in Bangladesh and show them the picture of all those guys named above. Ali will be the only one unanimously reocgnised. Tyson will come in second. The others will just be random men in shorts. Beyond Ali at number one and Tyson somewhere on that list, I can't argue too much with it. Louis and Marciano were both mroe "historical" fighters than Holyfield, although I'd actually rate Holyfield and his accomplishments above both of them. For me, Louis as teh de facto number 2 is plain wrong. But hey, it is what it is. You are welcome. No way on this earth though should Liston be above Holyfield. He had one defense against a guy with the weakest chin of all HW champs, and quit against light punching Clay. SOME LEGEND RIGHT THERE!

There will never be another 19 year old heavyweight champion. Just imagine the 19 year olds that you come in contact with today. Do you think any of them could be the baddest man on the planet? but with that being said, Holyfield was a beast and he would give tyson fits 10 times out of 10 Just want to point out to anyone who may not know, that this that you quoted me on, was in relation to Holyfield and NOT Tyson... "People still praise him because he had disadvantages in the ring, not advantages, plus he had a massive heart". Please would you edit your message to me with the quote, by adding something like "I agree Holyfield had disadvantages and a massive heart, because these posts last forever and get picked up all over the net when you google Tyson or Holyfield and I don't want to look like I am giving Tyson praise for something I strongly disagree with. I greatly appreciate your input pal.

Tyson was 20 when he won the belt and 21/22 when he was undisputed. But I agree with your point. Boxers developed a lot slower these days. Thanks for your input. I agree that 19 is an incredible age to win a version of the HW title, although he did have the best possible chance, being that he was like D'amato's son. and was therefore being groomed personally. How incredible was Benitez then, to have won a 15rd world title fight from a good champion, at only 17? Just want to explain that you misunderstood my point about todays boxers in comparison to old school ones. I wasn't saying that they develop slower, in fact exactly the opposite. There are guys in Ring magazines p4p list that have only had a handful of fights, like Inoue, and Lomanchenko. Also look at Joshua. What I was saying was guys in their 30's and 40's in the old days were a lot more worn out than today's equivalent, as they had much harder lives, less good food, and more fights. Those fights were often much more brutal than those today, and longer too. Thanks for reading.

I was always a fan of Holyfield and he showed up time in and time out. I agree with your ranking comment, I feel like so much goes into a ranking that it becomes too far from objective. People can just say who they like and why and move forward. I personally love Lamont Peterson because he has a ton of stamina, will, ruthless body punching and heart. Unfortunately many don't agree so whatever I have my own list, good to see you articulate yours. Thanks pal. Add me if you like.

Thanks for your interest. I don't really think ranking is possible to do in a fair way, so I don't do it myself, but thanks for asking pal. I was always a fan of Holyfield and he showed up time in and time out. I agree with your ranking comment, I feel like so much goes into a ranking that it becomes too far from objective. People can just say who they like and why and move forward. I personally love Lamont Peterson because he has a ton of stamina, will, ruthless body punching and heart. Unfortunately many don't agree so whatever I have my own list, good to see you articulate yours.

Would you elaborate? I know another boxing forum where they have a clique of mods, who bully and hate anyone who has their own opinion, or who dares to find any fault with a fighter they like. Maybe it is the same guy. I have seen that one of them posts on here. A vile scumbag, who is sarcastic, bitter, hypocritical, a know it all, totally biased, twists facts to suit his arguments, and hates everyone apart from Tyson...who just happens to be possibly the last boxer anyone should admire, as a person anyway. meaning they think power is the only thing that matters

There will never be another 19 year old heavyweight champion. Just imagine the 19 year olds that you come in contact with today. Do you think any of them could be the baddest man on the planet? but with that being said, Holyfield was a beast and he would give tyson fits 10 times out of 10 Tyson was 20 when he won the belt and 21/22 when he was undisputed. But I agree with your point. Boxers developed a lot slower these days.

People still praise him because he had disadvantages in the ring, not advantages, plus he had a massive heart. Bet you are a Tyson fan though and still idolize him, despite the fact that he actually did have cocaine in him whilst in the ring, and other times weed. Not to mention all the fouling he did, Ruddock low blows, trying to break Botha's arm, hitting Savarese and pushing the ref to the floor, after the fight was already stopped, etc etc etc Or the interview in which he laughed whilst telling the interviewee how he liked to hurt women. Did I mention biting part of a mans ear off on live TV? Or the rape? Or hitting civilians in the street? Or mugging old people when he was a kid? Or threatening to eat Lewis' kids? Or fighting at weigh ins? Bet you don't mind people still praising him though huh? There will never be another 19 year old heavyweight champion. Just imagine the 19 year olds that you come in contact with today. Do you think any of them could be the baddest man on the planet? but with that being said, Holyfield was a beast and he would give tyson fits 10 times out of 10