Ring Greatest HW of all time

Agree whole completely with Sun TZU's question. Somehow this method of ranking got that one wrong; Holyfield, Lewis then Tyson.

That's a suspect Marciano there. #4 seems a little high to me.

Ali is the greatest of all time because laid claim to it... Floyd tries to lay claim of bieng the best ever...but nobody cares for his knockoff title.

Riddick Bowe doesnt belong in the top twenty either imo. He had the potential to be one of the best ever but he didnt make the cut to me.

In what world is Tyson ahead of Lewis and Holyfield, get the fck outta here with that shit.

NO. 3 JACK JOHNSON Jack Johnson was ahead of his time in so many ways. He had advanced skills for his era. Impeccable defense. Underrated offense (he carried many opponents). He was the first heavyweight in history to truly master boxing. ———- Despite being black, Johnson refused to meet the best black contenders while he was champion. There was no interest from the American public in two black men fighting for the heavyweight title. But he’d already beaten most of these men on his rise to the championship. ———- What fighter today would get in the ring in front of tens of thousands of people who hated his guts and literally wanted to kill him, and talk trash to the guy he was fighting and beat him? ———- Jack Johnson was the father. He was black America’s first black hero. NO. 4 ROCKY MARCIANO Nobody ever got more out of what he had as a fighter than Marciano. No one came into a fight in better shape than Marciano. He could punch. He could take a punch. He learned some rudimentary techniques to accentuate his physical gifts and compensate for his limitations. He was relentless and had a will of iron. ———- Consider the competition that Marciano beat. Walcott and Charles are derided now as old men when he fought them. But watch the film. ———- They were great fighters who were nowhere near shot. Charles was 32 years old in the first Marciano fight. Walcott was 37, but he outboxed Marciano for most of their first match. Carmine Vingo, Rex Layne, Roland LaStarza; Marciano beat real fighters on his way up. He did lose (Ted Lowry was robbed in their first match). But when his character was tested, nobody was better. I loved his response when someone asked him what he was thinking when Walcott knocked him down in their first fight: ''Gee, this fellow hits hard. I might have to get up a couple of times before I knock him out''. ———- Marciano wouldn’t be rated as high as he is without his O. But he has the O and none of the other fighters on this list do. He’d be too small for guys like Ali and Foreman. But he took a better punch and was tougher than all of them. NO. 5 LARRY HOLMES Holmes did what he had to do to win. Getting off the floor the way he did against Earnie Shavers and Renaldo Snipes, coming back and knocking those guys out – that showed a special kind of greatness. ———- What a jab! Larry Holmes could knock you out with his jab. NO. 6 JACK DEMPSEY The Dempsey who fought Jess Willard was a stone-cold killer. He learned his craft and perfected his style over years of fighting. He wanted to end fights as quickly as possible. And his power was no myth. He changed the way guys fought. ———- Dempsey and Babe Ruth were America’s two most important sports figures in the Roaring Twenties, when sports became an integral part of the culture. He was wildly popular. He brought a whole new audience to boxing. In a golden age of sports, he made boxing popular and respectable. NO. 7 GEORGE FOREMAN A lot of people who are serious about boxing think George Foreman is one of the most underrated fighters ever. He fought his share of soft opponents. But he’s also one of the toughest men to ever box (watch the Lyle and Moorer fights). He’s one of the hardest hitters ever. And after being heavyweight champion, he came back more than a decade later to do it again. ———- Foreman was a much better boxer the second time around. He was older and slower, but he’d learned to study his opponents and take advantage of what he saw. ———- Ali fought Joe Frazier three times and Ken Norton three times. He didn’t mess with Foreman again after he beat him. NO. 8 JOE FRAZIER On March 8, 1971, Joe Frazier could have competed with anybody. ———- Frazier, like Marciano, was pure fighter. But he lost some of his desire before he retired. And when your biggest asset is desire, that’s not good. ———- Did some of Ali’s greatness rub off on Joe? Absolutely. And some of Joe’s greatness rubbed off on Ali. NO. 9 MIKE TYSON Tyson was the legitimate heavyweight champion of the world for more than three years. That’s a long time in boxing. And he has captivated the public’s imagination for three decades. ———- Mike Tyson is looked at now as a bully who folded when things got tough. But Tyson in his prime would have been competitive against anyone. ———- Tyson was the greatest six-round heavyweight of all time. But if he couldn’t take an opponent out in six rounds, he started to fall apart. ———- When Mike Tyson got discouraged, he wasn’t the same fighter. Joe Louis would have discouraged Tyson real fast. A lot of guys on this list would have discouraged Tyson real fast. NO. 10 SONNY LISTON Sonny Liston was the best heavyweight in the world for five years. His left hand – jab and hook – were beyond frightening. If he’d been allowed to fight for the championship when he deserved it, all those fights against Cleveland Williams, Eddie Machen and Zora Folley would have been successful title defenses. ———- If Cassius Clay hadn’t come along, Liston would have had more time at the top. ———- Sonny Liston was the baddest man on the planet. Compared to Liston, Mike Tyson was a choirboy. NO. 11 (tie) EVANDER HOLYFIELD Holyfield, like Ali, fought everyone. ———- He beat four other guys on this list: Tyson, Bowe, Holmes, and Foreman. Except for Bowe, they weren’t in their prime when Evander beat them, but that’s still an impressive accomplishment. ———- Holyfield was bigger than Dempsey and Marciano, but he couldn’t punch like them. And when you’re fighting, punching means a whole lot. NO. 11 (tie) LENNOX LEWIS Olympic champion. A giant who fought with finesse. He beat every available contender. He came back to beat the only two fighters who beat him in the pros. And this myth that Lennox had no chin. He got up from that bomb McCall hit him with, and I still think the fight was stopped prematurely. The punch Rahman hit him with in South Africa would have KO’d anyone, and there was the issue of altitude in South Africa. Lewis corrected things with Rahman in the rematch. ———- Lennox carried himself with dignity and grace for his entire career. That should count for something. NO. 13 GENE TUNNEY Tunney is another fighter who learned his craft well over years. A better version of Corbett. But Tunney never fought a black man. He was the only heavyweight champion after Sullivan without a man of color on his record. ———- Tunney caught Dempsey at the end of Dempsey’s career and after Dempsey had been out of the ring for three years. He was able to play the matador to an aging Jack Dempsey’s bull. I doubt that he could have done that against Marciano. Marciano would have beaten Tunney down. In fact, a young Dempsey might have beaten Tunney down. NO. 14 JOHN L. SULLIVAN Sullivan was America’s first massculture hero and the most idolized athlete who had lived up until his time. He stood out as a fighter the way Joe Louis did in his era. ——— Sullivan fought for 13 years, the last 10 of which he was a fullblown alcoholic. Drinking nearly killed him in 1888, yet he whipped the next-best (white) man a year later in a bare-knuckle match that lasted more than two hours. It took Corbett 21 modern rounds to stop Sullivan when Sullivan was 34 years old, had been inactive for three years and was drinking constantly. This to me is mind-boggling and tells me that Sullivan, in his prime, would have whipped Corbett. NO. 15 JAMES JEFFRIES Jeffries was a superior athlete who won the heavyweight championship as a virtual novice. That’s quite an accomplishment. ——— Forget about Johnson-Jeffries as a measure of Jeffries as a fighter. It was enormously important as a social event. But as a fight, it was like Ali- Holmes. One guy was a once-great fighter who was shot. The other guy was a great fighter in his prime. NO. 16 WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO We can’t be too American-centric. Boxing is a world sport. ———- The Klitschkos are two big, well-conditioned guys fighting in an era when the best big guys are going into sports other than boxing. ———- Give Wladimir credit for staying the course. ———- Wladimir has never seemed to have his heart in it. NO. 17 VITALI KLITSCHKO Vitali didn’t have the resume or talent of his brother. But if they fought, I’d pick Vitali. And his role as a serious player in Ukrainian politics adds to his stature. NO. 18 JAMES CORBETT Corbett was one of the first successful scientific fighters of the gloved era. Give him credit for that. But he fought for 17 years and had only 18 fights. He beat an old drunk (John L. Sullivan) for the title, defended it once against an aging British middleweight (Charlie Mitchell) and lost it to another aging British middleweight (Bob Fitzsimmons). NO. 19 RIDDICK BOWE Bowe was a super talent and a super waste. He had one great fight, the first fight against Evander Holyfield. Then he got lazy. Riddick had the potential to be much higher on this list but never got there. He was a disappointment. When you squander talent like that, you don’t deserve to be ranked high. NO. 20 BOB FITZSIMMONS Bob Fitzsimmons won championships in three weight divisions. But he was getting his ass kicked in the Corbett fight until he hit Corbett with a body shot. ALI AND LOUIS http://afflictor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/alilouis123.jpg All of the fighters on this list were great. But Muhammad Ali and Joe Louis stand separate and apart from the rest. There’s a fight that’s bigger than boxing. Certain champions touch an entire generation. Put symbolism aside for a moment. Joe Louis was a better fighter than any fighter the world had seen before. He was the best ever up until his time. People remember how good Ali was when he was young. They’ve forgotten how good Louis was when he was young. Louis had everything. Power, speed, stamina, a textbook style. He lost one fight in the early years of his career, to a very good Max Schmeling (who Louis took lightly and didn’t train for properly). When they met again with the championship on the line, Louis knocked Schmeling out in the first round. That night changed the experience of being black in America. Jack Johnson might have been black America’s first black hero. When Louis (the symbol of American democracy) knocked out Schmeling (Adolf Hitler’s favorite fighter), Louis became white America’s first black hero. In 1951, at the end of Louis’s storied ring career, A. J. Liebling wrote, “Joe Louis looks like a champion and carries himself like a champion, and people will continue to call him champion as long as he lives.” Muhammad Ali had incredible physical gifts, skill, determination and heart. He fought more great heavyweights than anyone and never ducked a challenge. And let’s not forget: Ali was past his prime when he beat Joe Frazier and George Foreman. Ali wasn’t always a good sportsman. Joe Frazier and Ernie Terrell can attest to that. But as David Halberstam noted, “He knew how to play the role of champion, inside and outside the ring. God, he knew how to play that role.” Like Louis, Ali changed what it meant to be black in America. Louis inspired America. Ali inspired the world. In the end, Ali’s edge over Louis in this poll was that many electors felt he was simply the better fighter. So, are we talking about boxing’s greatest heavyweight fighter or boxing’s greatest heavyweight champion? As a symbol, Louis meant as much in his time as Ali did in his; maybe more. My own preference is to rank Ali No. 1 and Louis No. 1A. Given Ali’s generosity of spirit, I don’t think he’d mind sharing the No. 1 spot … as long as he’s the one without the A.