Andre Ward really is a wasted talent.

Very true. For selfish reasons I would've liked to see more though. Lol...I like your honesty. We would all like to see more...

floyd fought corrales when he was ranked on a p4p list in his prime. mosley was slipping but he was in the top 10 as well. manny fought marquez, barrera, and he did not struggle with cotto :lol1: you're giving too much credit for the power of bigger men. of course he's faced harder punchers :lol1: he fights at 168 and 175 where dudes can hit. it's reality that ward's resume doesn't stack up aginst pacquiao or mayweather jr. just look at the names you put down. green? miranda? pacquiao has wins over all time morales, barrera, marquez, all the way up in weight to cotto, hatton, clottey, margarito. floyd mayweather was p4p back in the f#cking 90's, man. until his very recent retirement he was considered the best fighter in the world. do you guys even understand that and how much more of an accomplishment it is than anything ward has done? ward's a great fighter and a hall of famer, but he's not in the discussion with pacquiao and mayweather jr, who are without a doubt two of the 50 best fighters to ever put on boxing gloves. Corrales hit hard but he's no Kovalev, same with Mosley (maybe prime but not at 40) and Maidana. Kovalev is arguably one of the hardest hitters of all time, you know you hit hard when you have Hopkins in survival mode from round 1. I didn't say Pac struggled with Cotto, I said he had a much safer career than May. Cotto is the hardest hitter he's fought but that was at a time when Cotto was fresh off a massive beating against plaster wraps and it was at a catch weight. you're giving too much credit for the power of bigger men. of course he's faced harder punchers :lol1: he fights at 168 and 175 where dudes can hit. Power means nothing? Power influences what the other guy is capable of doing in there. Kov had one of the all time great technicians in boxing's history looking like an amateur in there. Hopkins-Kovalev Maidana-Mayweather Jacobs-ggg Marquez-Pacquaio Look at what happened when Marquez put on strength and gained power, the same right hands that Pac was once able to take put him out cold. These lower divisions are MUCH safer to fight in. Ward would look even greater fighting guys that didn't possess such power. Their resumes are much deeper than Ward's but quality wise they're not far apart. Prime May arguably lost to JLC, he didn't exactly dominate Cotto, and struggled 2x with B level Maidana. Pac arguably lost 4x to Marquez, he only avenged his L against Morales after Morales had to move back down in weight, and Cotto-Hatton were fresh off huge beatings that never left them the same. The only fighter Ward has REALLY struggled with was Kov, moving up in weight, after a lengthy retirement.

The "Pound for Pound" rankings when Floyd fought Diego Corrales: 01.) Shane Mosley, 33-0 (31 KO) 02.) Felix Trinidad, 39-0 (32 KO) 03.) Roy Jones, Jr., 43-1 (35 KO) 04.) Oscar De La Hoya, 32-2 (26 KO) 05.) Diego Corrales, 33-0 (27 KO) 06.) Naseem Hamed, 35-0 (31 KO) 07.) Floyd Mayweather, Jr., 24-0 (18 KO) 08.) Lennox Lewis, 38-1-1 (29 KO) 09.) Erik Morales, 39-0 (31 KO) 10.) Bernard Hopkins, 38-2-1 (28 KO) Wow.

All fighters struggle to an extent, Pac and May have never fought a P4P ranked fighter like Kov. with his power. Let's not forget a 40 year old Mosley had May on queer street, Kov's boxing skills, power, are all superior to his. Maidana is another guy, B level fighter, most dangerous opponent he's ever faced, we saw a really close fight. Cotto is also another hard puncher he faced struggled with. Pac rocked him too. None of these men posses anything that comes close to the power of Kovalev. Pac, he's had a much safer route. Most dangerous punchers he faced were Cotto fresh off one of the most brutal beatings in the past decade against Marg. Mosley 40 years old. Hatton, fresh off a brutal KO to May. Marquez-KTFO Ward has a very dangerous resume with punchers like Kov, Barrera, Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Miranda, Green etc. these lower divisions rarely generate destroyers like the higher divisions. floyd fought corrales when he was ranked on a p4p list in his prime. mosley was slipping but he was in the top 10 as well. manny fought marquez, barrera, and he did not struggle with cotto :lol1: you're giving too much credit for the power of bigger men. of course he's faced harder punchers :lol1: he fights at 168 and 175 where dudes can hit. it's reality that ward's resume doesn't stack up aginst pacquiao or mayweather jr. just look at the names you put down. green? miranda? pacquiao has wins over all time morales, barrera, marquez, all the way up in weight to cotto, hatton, clottey, margarito. floyd mayweather was p4p back in the f#cking 90's, man. until his very recent retirement he was considered the best fighter in the world. do you guys even understand that and how much more of an accomplishment it is than anything ward has done? ward's a great fighter and a hall of famer, but he's not in the discussion with pacquiao and mayweather jr, who are without a doubt two of the 50 best fighters to ever put on boxing gloves.

You say stubborn I say smart...skills pays the bills...think about making a living getting punch in the head...besides he came back and is still winning...Ward P4P King unless Floyd comes back... Very true. For selfish reasons I would've liked to see more though.

dude you are nuts if you think he's a more talented fighter than floyd mayweather or manny pacquiao, two of the most talented fighters of ever. could have surpassed them? based on what? do you really think he brought more to boxing in terms of talent than either of those two? ward's got good skills, he's not the boxer that floyd was, or the ass whooper that manny was. he needs to roughuouse, spoil, take shots to come out on top sometimes even against b level competititon. he's really not that close to the talents of those two, the best of the era. he allows the bikas, barreras of the world to stay relatively in the fight compared to manny and floyd. manny knocked that level of opponent into next week and shortened his career. floyd had him literally not trying to win late in the fight. that's not only because of their skills, but their talents. floyd's reflexes are the best i've seen. believe me, if ward could box liek that from the outside and win cleanly he would. instead he ends up inside and getting marked up. if ward could punch like manny he would. but he can't. so he won't be knocking guys out or breaking their orbital bones in his 9000th weight class. All fighters struggle to an extent, Pac and May have never fought a P4P ranked fighter like Kov. with his power. Let's not forget a 40 year old Mosley had May on queer street, Kov's boxing skills, power, are all superior to his. Maidana is another guy, B level fighter, most dangerous opponent he's ever faced, we saw a really close fight. Cotto is also another hard puncher he faced struggled with. Pac rocked him too. None of these men posses anything that comes close to the power of Kovalev. Pac, he's had a much safer route. Most dangerous punchers he faced were Cotto fresh off one of the most brutal beatings in the past decade against Marg. Mosley 40 years old. Hatton, fresh off a brutal KO to May. Marquez-KTFO Ward has a very dangerous resume with punchers like Kov, Barrera, Froch, Kessler, Abraham, Miranda, Green etc. these lower divisions rarely generate destroyers like the higher divisions.

For the record I am a fan of both Joe Calzaghe and Andre Ward. That would be a dream matchup, but I believe Calzaghe would take it. Ward could only win if it was in Oakland.

Omit talent and you got it right.

If Ward clearly beat Kovalev why do about 80% off those polled think Kovalev won. That doesn't sound like a clear win for Ward. Why do you call GGG 666? Has he become the devil to you? I think Calzaghe in his prime beats a prime Ward. Ward is a calculating boxer. Joe was a fast boxer who threw a lot of punches from all angles. His style, speed, great chin and high volume punching round after round would defeat Ward in my opinion. That's cuz most people here on this site are bias that's why I jump in and debate a little and I like the aftermath of the fights I debate....and I call him 666 cuz he did not give himself that nickname and 666 is not the devil, its a little deeper than that.....Calslappy in his prime was neutralized by B-Hop in his 40's....no way calslappy beats Ward any time period. Joe was a fast but not very accurate and I don't know bout his chin, he's been knocked down by 2 fighters in their 40's...what I would love to see is a prime Ward vs prime Hopkins!

Ward surpassed JC a decade ago, he's got one of the most dangerous resume's in boxing. Compare that to JC, the hardest hitter he's ever faced was Kessler followed by guys you never heard of. Kovalev-81% KO ratio Froch-69% Barrera-68% Abraham-60% Green, Miranda, Rodriguez, Brand etc. his resume is lit up with power punchers. Guys like Pac and even Mayweather don't fight such dangerous opponents.

so you overinflated the guy and want to act like it's a big deal that ward didn't fight him? if he beat froch adn ward didn't fight him you'd have a leg to stand on. but you don't. now, if you want to get on ward for fighting dawson at 168, that's fine. note that dawson asked for that fight at 168, ahd claimed in interviews that they would campaign from 168 to HW. if that fight was a half lb over 168 ward wouldn't be able to fight for his titles. and fighters generally don't go down in weight after they move up, so he'd have likely kissed 168 goodbye at a time when his body was still very much that of a 168 lber whose career would be shortened at 175. there are plenty of reasons to get on andre ward. being an ******* is #1. it's what caused him such long layoffs during his prime. he feels entitled to more than he is owed. you're missing the plot if you want to get on his case for not fighting the guy carl froch beat up. really. slow as piss carl froch beat that guy up to the point that he was no longer a viable TV fight for ward :lol1: The thing is, everyone thought Lucian Bute was the white Mike Tyson. The only reason they don't now is because Carl Froch adopted him and beat him like a ginger-haired stepchild. Regardless what has happened since, that will always be one of Carl Froch's greatest accomplishments. You have to remember, Froch was the betting underdog in his own hometown. It could be argued that Froch put a career-altering whooping on Bute. Andre Ward could have easily been in Froch's shoes. Also, regarding Ward and Dawson at 168. After that fight Andre had one more fight at Super Middleweight, against Delvin Rodriguez. So I disagree with your opinion of Ward feeling a need to stay at 168.

Wasted talent is an exaggeration. A wasted talent doesn't have the list of accomplishments that Andre Ward does. An under-used talent, sure. all his accomplishments are tainted. super six heavily weighted in his favor. kovalev decision was terrible. relies on a clinch and punch style which is illegal in tough fights. def overrated if people are calling him p4p #1.

so you overinflated the guy and want to act like it's a big deal that ward didn't fight him? if he beat froch adn ward didn't fight him you'd have a leg to stand on. but you don't. now, if you want to get on ward for fighting dawson at 168, that's fine. note that dawson asked for that fight at 168, ahd claimed in interviews that they would campaign from 168 to HW. if that fight was a half lb over 168 ward wouldn't be able to fight for his titles. and fighters generally don't go down in weight after they move up, so he'd have likely kissed 168 goodbye at a time when his body was still very much that of a 168 lber whose career would be shortened at 175. there are plenty of reasons to get on andre ward. being an ******* is #1. it's what caused him such long layoffs during his prime. he feels entitled to more than he is owed. you're missing the plot if you want to get on his case for not fighting the guy carl froch beat up. really. slow as piss carl froch beat that guy up to the point that he was no longer a viable TV fight for ward :lol1: anytime you avoid the number 1 guy its a big deal. if the number one guy turns out to be overrated so be it. easy money as they say. ward loves money so i guess he didnt think it was so easy. dmitri sartison got the call....wtf

did i say that? or are you making a scarecrow to protect your little mudhut? what i said was that bute didn't get by carl froch. how bad can not fighting the guy make you look? that fight wouldn't even get sanctioned on TV after froch beat bute, who was clearly overinflated because of his matchmaking and people falling in love with his power against bums. the guy shoudl have a knockout loss to liberado andrade, FFS, one of the slowest fighters i have ever seen make it to TV. you were implying that he didnt have to fight the number 1 guy because he went on to lose. it was the the best fight in the division and a caree high payday. no excuses not to take it. just like floyd and marg. oh marg eventually lost so good ducking! not even worth it!

I know this, but at the time, Andre Ward had just beaten Carl Froch, there were talks of a Ward vs. Lucian Bute fight taking place. I am not the one with the short memory. Have a look back on Google to around fall 2011, spring 2012. The sequence of events was: November 2011, Bute decisions Glen Johnson December 2011, Ward schools Froch May 2012, Froch rapes Bute September 2012, Ward rapes Dawson Just saying, timing is the key. If Ward had taken Bute on it would have unified the IBF, WBA and WBC, as well as the Lineal and RING magazine. Instead Carl Froch took Bute's scalp. Also, the Chad Dawson fight could have then happened at 175, giving Ward the Lineal titles in two division by the end of 2012. In reality that never happened, Ward instead defended his title against a weight drained Dawson at 168, then fought once in the next 3 years. so you overinflated the guy and want to act like it's a big deal that ward didn't fight him? if he beat froch adn ward didn't fight him you'd have a leg to stand on. but you don't. now, if you want to get on ward for fighting dawson at 168, that's fine. note that dawson asked for that fight at 168, ahd claimed in interviews that they would campaign from 168 to HW. if that fight was a half lb over 168 ward wouldn't be able to fight for his titles. and fighters generally don't go down in weight after they move up, so he'd have likely kissed 168 goodbye at a time when his body was still very much that of a 168 lber whose career would be shortened at 175. there are plenty of reasons to get on andre ward. being an ******* is #1. it's what caused him such long layoffs during his prime. he feels entitled to more than he is owed. you're missing the plot if you want to get on his case for not fighting the guy carl froch beat up. really. slow as piss carl froch beat that guy up to the point that he was no longer a viable TV fight for ward :lol1:

Wasted talent is an exaggeration. A wasted talent doesn't have the list of accomplishments that Andre Ward does. An under-used talent, sure.

dude you are nuts if you think he's a more talented fighter than floyd mayweather or manny pacquiao, two of the most talented fighters of ever. could have surpassed them? based on what? do you really think he brought more to boxing in terms of talent than either of those two? ward's got good skills, he's not the boxer that floyd was, or the ass whooper that manny was. he needs to roughuouse, spoil, take shots to come out on top sometimes even against b level competititon. he's really not that close to the talents of those two, the best of the era. he allows the bikas, barreras of the world to stay relatively in the fight compared to manny and floyd. manny knocked that level of opponent into next week and shortened his career. floyd had him literally not trying to win late in the fight. that's not only because of their skills, but their talents. floyd's reflexes are the best i've seen. believe me, if ward could box liek that from the outside and win cleanly he would. instead he ends up inside and getting marked up. if ward could punch like manny he would. but he can't. so he won't be knocking guys out or breaking their orbital bones in his 9000th weight class. Talent is one thing, but I was talking about legacy. On paper wins over Sergey Kovalev, Carl Froch and Mikkel Kessler stand above the majority of resumes from the last 10-15 years. My point was, if Ward could add the rematch with Kovalev and maybe a win over Adonis Stevenson to those names, he'd be putting himself in that bracket. The main thing that lets Ward down is the inactivity around 2013-2015. Catchweight fights and weight drained opponents seriously diminish the legacies of Floyd and Manny.

so ward gets credit for froch beating bute? not how it works. would have looked a lot better if he beat both but he refused the fight making him look very bad. did i say that? or are you making a scarecrow to protect your little mudhut? what i said was that bute didn't get by carl froch. how bad can not fighting the guy make you look? that fight wouldn't even get sanctioned on TV after froch beat bute, who was clearly overinflated because of his matchmaking and people falling in love with his power against bums. the guy shoudl have a knockout loss to liberado andrade, FFS, one of the slowest fighters i have ever seen make it to TV.

bute did not get by carl froch, short memory. so ward gets credit for froch beating bute? not how it works. would have looked a lot better if he beat both but he refused the fight making him look very bad.

bute did not get by carl froch, short memory. I know this, but at the time, Andre Ward had just beaten Carl Froch, there were talks of a Ward vs. Lucian Bute fight taking place. I am not the one with the short memory. Have a look back on Google to around fall 2011, spring 2012. The sequence of events was: November 2011, Bute decisions Glen Johnson December 2011, Ward schools Froch May 2012, Froch rapes Bute September 2012, Ward rapes Dawson Just saying, timing is the key. If Ward had taken Bute on it would have unified the IBF, WBA and WBC, as well as the Lineal and RING magazine. Instead Carl Froch took Bute's scalp. Also, the Chad Dawson fight could have then happened at 175, giving Ward the Lineal titles in two division by the end of 2012. In reality that never happened, Ward instead defended his title against a weight drained Dawson at 168, then fought once in the next 3 years.