Lomachenko's & Usyk's historic pro world records now officially recognized!

Note: This info IMO is headline-worthy for BoxingScene or any other media outlet for that matter. A couple articles could even be published from it: Loma officially tying Muangsurin's previous record set in '75 as the fastest man to win a major world title in their 3rd pro fights respectively, Loma officially becoming the fastest man to win a major world title (WBO) in 2 divisions (backed doubly by BoxRec & now Fight Fax), & Usyk officially becoming the fastest man to win a major world title (WBO) at Cruiserweight in just his 10th pro fight – breaking Holyfield's previous record set in '86 in his 12th pro fight (WBA). All that I ask for is simply to be credited for the independent research herein. Over the summer at the ABC's 28th annual conference BoxRec was delegated as the other official pro boxing record-keeper, alongside Fight Fax, by ABC president Michael Mazzulli on August 3rd, 2016. Both registries have equal precedence despite Fight Fax being more accurate, and, as a result, contracted through the ABC. As of August 2nd, 2016, Fight Fax is now required to place an indication next to fighters' World Series of Boxing's (WSB) billed “semi-pro” bouts in order to separate them from the other standard professional fights in their official record books. BoxRec doesn't count/list them as professional fights but notes them in the fighter's bio, if they have one. My source is directly from the ABC, the Association of Boxing Commissions' 28th annual conference. The motion to separate the records by Andy Foster of California (a former GA & FL inspector) passed by a clear majority voice vote in which the ABC president himself voted “Aye” or ‘Yes’ to. It was seconded by Frank Gentile, an active referee & judge out of Florida. Both can be looked up on BoxRec. WSB bouts now separate from recognized Pro fights in Fight Fax registry's record books Presentation Mike Martino on World Series of Boxing Pro vs. Amateur Issues. Attorney for Josh Temple. Andy Foster made impromptu presentation. Motion – Foster of CA Moved to separate WSB records on Fight Fax. MOVED. The boxing registry shall place an indication by the WSB fights on Fight Fax such that it does not have to be announced as part of the fighter’s professional record. Seconded by Gentile (FL). MOTION CARRIED ON A VOICE VOTE WITH MINIMAL NAYS. The above info is sourced from the ABC's website from their formal draft (PDF) document → 28th Annual Association of Boxing Commissions Conference Draft Doc Here's YouTube video of the motion being “carried” (passed/approved) and is timestamped for convenience → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HokwrmVp1ww&t=28103 Here's YouTube video of the motion being requested & introduced to the floor by Foster and then seconded by Gentile at the conference. This covers its full discussion regarding separating WSB bouts from pro fights. It's also timestamped for convenience → https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HokwrmVp1ww&t=27508 BoxRec becomes the other official record-keeping Pro registry Presentation from Boxrec. Provided in writing. Mareena and John Sheppard. The issue of the official boxing registry was discussed. President Mazzulli announced that both registries shall be considered official registries. Motion was to give authority to the Boxing Registry Committee to resolve all outstanding issues with the Boxing Registries, including all of the contractual information read into the record by Foster. Motion by Sirb (PA) seconded by English (NH). Motion by Gentile (FL) to adjourn, seconded and approved. After a few years, the ABC has finally made its ruling on the WSB matter. It's seemingly final & is also retroactive for fighters that already have or will be competing in World Series of Boxing bouts going forward.

Comments (20)

Interesting, Derveyanchenko had a 24-1 record in the WSB. I don't see why the WSB records shouldn't count as pro-fights, but there's definitely different rules from the pro's. The World Series of Boxing or "WSB" is AIBA's own creation. It's a gray area. It was initially meant to be a hybridization of amateur boxing with a pro-style look & feel that would allow amateurs to retain their Olympic eligibility and to help bridge the gap between the ams and pros. The WSB bouts that are recognized/counted haven't been scratched altogether from Fight Fax's official record books. They'll still be listed on the Fight Fax records (record list printouts) that SACs, promoters, matchmakers, etc have access to see but they're now to be treated independently so that they're separated from standard professional matches. Many WSB bouts have been previously counted by Fight Fax as full professional fights. All six of Lomachenko's WSB bouts were counted, despite these bouts being sanctioned in regions of the world that are out of the ABC's, and therefore Fight Fax's, reach/jurisdiction. On-the-record they're still there, but, they don't count toward the total of fully recognized professional matches for fighters that competed/compete in it. Off-the-record, it's optional to announce. Whether or not the fighter's record is announced with them included during fights is up to them/their team. Lomachenko can optionally be announced as either 7-1 or as 13-1. Usyk can optionally be announced as either 11-0 or as 17-0.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

Good info. Ive seen Loma haters cite those fights to argue that he didn't win the title so quickly Honestly, the record doesn't really matter. In terms of winning a belt (and then another in another division) quickly Im more impressed with what Monster Inouye did, as he is so young. Loma was an experienced amateur and an older dude. So winning a belt QUICKLY isn't impressive IMO. HOWEVER, Loma IS very impressive. True p4p talent, and beating good fighter in Russell & Axeman in 2 divisions is p4p worthy. So this doesn't really change my opinion of Loma. Thanks. I just found out myself about the ABC's ruling on the WSB days ago, despite it happening nearly 7 months back. The conference was held for six days from July 29th through August 3rd and covered not just amateur & pro boxing but also MMA, Kickboxing & Muay Thai, which the ABC also oversees through their Unified Rules and sanctioning. If a SAC (State Athletic Commission) or TAC (Tribal Athletic Commission) isn't available in a given region to officially sanction bouts then they, the ABC, can step in to do it directly. I haven't heard a peep about these rulings (for BoxRec too) from any of the boxing media that I follow or from any of today's so-called "new media" outlets. This officially changes some things both in retrospect and also likely in going forward. Good post though. I actually agree with you that what Naoya Inoue accomplished is a more impressive feat. He won a major world title in two divisions in only 8 fights. He was a solid amateur but nothing elite, let alone an elite of the elite amateur talent like a Lomachenko, Rigondeaux or Zou Shiming. He never medaled at the World Championships, where he competed there as a Youth, or at the Olympics, since he lost in the final at the Astana, Kazakhstan qualification tournament.

9y ago

Eastcoast

Interesting, Derveyanchenko had a 24-1 record in the WSB. I don't see why the WSB records shouldn't count as pro-fights, but there's definitely different rules from the pro's.

9y ago

SensFullViolenc

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

I know all those differences, thats why i said in all the revelant ways theyre pro fights. Like Doug Fischer said, If it looks like a pro fight, if it’s conducted like a pro fight and if the fighters are paid like pro fighters, then WSB fights are pro fights. WSB fights were at a higher level than your regular record padding early fights....invaluable experience. The ruling is the ruling...before august of last year they were pro fights, now they are not and retroactively, they can claim those records. Not much else to say. Doug published an article about some of the differences between WSB semi-pro bouts and pro fights on The Ring's website. The "final opinion" was given by Steve Farhood of Showtime, and that final opinion was about pay. Again, Loma & Usyk, among other top amateurs, have been paid since 2008 as amateurs (before they competed in the WSB). You've clearly read what Fischer published a couple years ago on The Ring's website, "Vasyl Lomachenko, The WSB and the Record-Keeping Divide". Doug and Farhood apparently didn't realize that top Ams have been getting paid for the last 9 years, and AIBA approved of the prize money for boxers medaling at major tournaments; the World Cup, the World Championships, the Olympic Games, even down to the Continental Championships (ie., the European Championships) you get paid. WSB bouts are higher level (due to top level Am talent) than the regular padded fights at the start of most fighters' pro boxing careers but Loma & Usyk fought amateurs. None of the boxers that Loma fought were established pros outside of the WSB. This likely played a part in BoxRec not recognizing them despite Fight Fax recognizing them as pro fights.

9y ago

Hyperion

Listen, I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything. I only quoted your posts to prove to that other poster that WSB bouts are still considered by some, even many, as official pro fights. Questioning is the right thing to do. There were a number of differences when Lomachenko & Usyk fought in the WSB. Besides being a team league advancing tournament, for instance, they also had Standing 8 "Protection" Counts, which have been in the amateurs forever and haven't been in pro boxing formally since 1998, per the ABC. The gloves that Lomachenko wore were 10 oz and not 8's, which are what the pros wear within his weight range. They were also limited to 5 rounds, unlike the pros where you have 4, 6, 8, 10 & 12 rounders (used to be up to 15 until the 80's). The "paid" argument is also moot because amateurs have been expressly allowed to be paid by AIBA since 2008. Both Loma & Usyk have been paid since '08. If you want sources for any of this, just ask. I can give them to you right from them directly. Willie Pep used to be a paid amateur as well in Connecticut back when they allowed amateurs to be paid during the Great Depression while other states didn't allow it. The prize money today is up to 100k if you win the Olympics. You also get paid an annual salary, or a monthly stipend, after you win the Olympic Games. AIBA has given out prize money since 2008 for winning several major tournaments that any boxer is entitled to as long as they medal. I know all those differences, thats why i said in all the revelant ways theyre pro fights. Like Doug Fischer said, If it looks like a pro fight, if it’s conducted like a pro fight and if the fighters are paid like pro fighters, then WSB fights are pro fights. WSB fights were at a higher level than your regular record padding early fights....invaluable experience. The ruling is the ruling...before august of last year they were pro fights, now they are not and retroactively, they can claim those records. Not much else to say.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

and questioning was the right thing to do..and their fightfax record were the correct ones until this ruling happened.I didnt know this case had actually been settled, so nice for informing me. So now they can officially say those are their records. Those WSB bouts were pro in all the revelant ways but if thats the ruling, thats the ruling. Listen, I'm not trying to put you on blast or anything. I only quoted your posts to prove to that other poster, Clegg, that WSB bouts are still considered by some, even many, as official pro fights. Questioning is the right thing to do. There were a number of differences when Lomachenko & Usyk fought in the WSB. Besides being a team league advancing tournament, for instance, they also had Standing 8 "Protection" Counts, which have been in the amateurs forever and haven't been in pro boxing formally since 1998, per the ABC. The gloves that Lomachenko wore were 10 oz and not 8's, which are what the pros wear within his weight range. They were also limited to 5 rounds, unlike the pros where you have 4, 6, 8, 10 & 12 rounders (used to be up to 15 until the 80's). The "paid" argument is also moot because amateurs have been expressly allowed to be paid by AIBA since 2008. Both Loma & Usyk have been paid since '08. If you want sources for any of this, just ask. I can give them to you right from them directly. Willie Pep used to be a paid amateur as well in Connecticut back when they allowed amateurs to be paid during the Great Depression while other states didn't allow it. The prize money today is up to 100k if you win the Olympics. You also get paid an annual salary, or a monthly stipend, after you win the Olympic Games. AIBA has given out prize money since 2008 for winning several major tournaments that any boxer is entitled to as long as they medal.

9y ago

FinitoxDinamita

Rigo > loma.. usyk isnt that impressive

9y ago

Hyperion

I think so too. Some publications were saying that he (Loma) didn't hold the official record for being the fastest man to win a major world title (tied with Muangsurin), or the fastest man to do it in two divisions, and they showed the Fight Fax print out. Fight News did this, for example. Well, it'll now show them separated with the WSB bouts underneath the standard professional boxing matches on his career record from what I understand (that's what the motion was about). They officially don't count anymore meaning Loma is 7-1 in pro boxing and his records will stand. Same with Usyk's record. Usyk is now officially 11-0 in pro boxing. Both had 6 WSB semi-pro bouts with the Ukraine Otamans, a name that Lomachenko picked for their team. and questioning was the right thing to do..and their fightfax record were the correct ones until this ruling happened.I didnt know this case had actually been settled, so nice for informing me. So now they can officially say those are their records. Those WSB bouts were pro in all the revelant ways but if thats the ruling, thats the ruling.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

I already considered those WSB bouts to be non-professional and figured everyone else did as well. You independent research gets no credit from me. You figured wrong then. This was posted by an 11 year member here in the NSB forum just a few days ago and he has posted even more recently about Lomachenko's WSB fights and the Fight Fax record-keeping dilemma as to what should be considered professional in the official Fight Fax record books. He and others could really benefit from this information. people need to stop with the 8 fights nonesense though....dude is 28 with 400 am fights and 20 pro fights(fightfax, the official US record keeper and the official record keeper for the World organizations has his record at (18-1 5 KO's) This is his most recent post about it, today. i think he will or should considering his amateur history...those quickest to whatever records are dubious at best though....i still dont get how the media is blatantly ignoring that fightfax is the official record keeper for the US and world organizations... I rest my case.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

Pro boxers with less than 15 pro bouts are allowed to fight in the WSB. You can have two pro boxers facing each other. I would not call that a non-professional bout. I consider these WSB bouts as semi-professional. Back in the day, amateur boxers used to go straight from the amateurs - point-scoring system, headgears, tank tops, 4×2 or 3×3 minute rounds - to the pros. The WSB has offered a lot of boxers a better transition from the amateur to the pro ranks. That's what these WSB bouts are, they're semi-pro. That's also what they're billed as. When Lomachenko fought there, for example, he fought 6 times against 5 boxers that were amateurs or "PrAmateurs". None of them were full-fledged pros. AIBA has their own pro banner known as APB, which you probably know. Had Lomachenko or Usyk fought in the APB then their fights would definitely count as full professional fights. They fought in AIBA's AOB and WSB as amateurs and semi-pros. The WSB is now used as a way to qualify for the Olympics and was used by some boxers for the Games in Rio last year. Some of these boxers were already pros and wanted to compete at the Olympics, so they went through the WSB qualifiers. One amateur from Team USA, Josh Temple, lost at the qualifiers and it counted as a "pro" fight loss on his Fight Fax record so he's now suing USA Boxing and IIRC the ABC as well. He hadn't even turned pro yet.

9y ago

Loquesan

I already considered those WSB bouts to be non-professional and figured everyone else did as well. You independent research gets no credit from me. Pro boxers with less than 15 pro bouts are allowed to fight in the WSB. You can have two pro boxers facing each other. I would not call that a non-professional bout. I consider these WSB bouts as semi-professional. Back in the day, amateur boxers used to go straight from the amateurs - point-scoring system, headgears, tank tops, 4×2 or 3×3 minute rounds - to the pros. The WSB has offered a lot of boxers a better transition from the amateur to the pro ranks.

9y ago

Fastest loss entering the pros?????? Hopkins lost his first pro fight, you ignorant fool. Of course you don't like Loma. You are a black racist. If a boxer is white and extremely good like GGG and Loma then you hate them and start 10 threads a day trashing them. Rigo is a great fighter but the majority rate Loma as an even better fighter. Just cause he trolls Eastern Euro fighters he's black? Nice logic he's obviously Hispanic.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

World title are pretty watered down now tbh. Loma needs better names on his resume than simply picking up titles. Haven't Broner and Guerrero picked up numerous titles across weight divisions? Yes, they are watered down. But you need all 4 major world titles to become undisputed and it's been that way since 2007, so it's been a decade. You can choose from 4 IBHOF-recognized major alphabet world titles (WBA, WBC, IBF, WBO) or the minor world title (IBO) that some fighters still carry & rep. Let's not forget The Ring Magazine's "Lineal" world title too, their championship policy is a joke. Loma only has 8 professional fights. Show me a better résumé than his only 8 fights deep. There isn't one. Beating GRJ for the vacant FW WBO title is certainly respectable since Gary went on to become the WBC champ there and was said to have the fastest hands in boxing. He was also a US Olympian and a favorite to medal but never competed because he passed out when trying to make weight. Roman Martinez wasn't anything special but he was 7 pounds heavier come fight night and experienced. Lomachenko moved up to Junior Lightweight and immediately fought for the WBO title. To answer your question, yes. But Broner, for instance, cherry picked his way there. Lomachenko hasn't. Pedraza was the weakest world champion at SFW/JLW when Lomachenko moved up. The guy should've lost to Edner Cherry in their fight.

9y ago

Pugilisticuffs

pretty cool stuff. I think so too. Some publications were saying that he (Loma) didn't hold the official record for being the fastest man to win a major world title (tied with Muangsurin), or the fastest man to do it in two divisions, and they showed the Fight Fax print out. Fight News did this, for example. Well, it'll now show them separated with the WSB bouts underneath the standard professional boxing matches on his career record from what I understand (that's what the motion was about). They officially don't count anymore meaning Loma is 7-1 in pro boxing and his records will stand. Same with Usyk's record. Usyk is now officially 11-0 in pro boxing. Both had 6 WSB semi-pro bouts with the Ukraine Otamans, a name that Lomachenko picked for their team.

9y ago

boliodogs

lol. 2 time Gold Medalist, fastest loss entering the pros!... Rigo with about 500 amateur bouts make these scrubs hypeFastest loss entering the pros?????? Hopkins lost his first pro fight, you ignorant fool. Of course you don't like Loma. You are a black racist. If a boxer is white and extremely good like GGG and Loma then you hate them and start 10 threads a day trashing them. Rigo is a great fighter but the majority rate Loma as an even better fighter.

9y ago

soul_survivor

World title are pretty watered down now tbh. Loma needs better names on his resume than simply picking up titles. Haven't Broner and Guerrero picked up numerous titles across weight divisions?

9y ago

boliodogs

I don't really care what records Loma did or didn't break. I think he is a hell of a fighter and a great champion. I don't expect him to lose any fights for many years and he fights very good competition.

9y ago

GMAN_SUPREME

pretty cool stuff.

9y ago

GMAN_SUPREME

lol. 2 time Gold Medalist, fastest loss entering the pros!... Rigo with about 500 amateur bouts make these scrubs hypewho gives a sh1t about rigo doe? no one you ass clown

9y ago