"Virgil said, 'Keep him mad!'"

He spoke about politics in the end of the fight, which made me laugh because essentially, all he really did was allow a guy who he knew has a propensity to fight physical or dirty if he has to, get in the fight and fight more comfortably as the pace slowed down enough for him to get back into it. It didn't make sense that SK was trying to outbox a man known to be as cagey and tough as the old, washed up version of the other guy he couldn't finish. Maybe he genuinely felt that Ward and Bernard were one in the same in that aspect but even then, it made no sense to not try and push the pace again. To me? He knew it wasn't gonna be an easy fight and he let Ward get back into it because of a wrong gameplan. How do you not put away one of the best boxers in the sport if you were capable of doing it? Why would you try and risk it? What sense did it make to have the ability to KO or at least KD someone if you don't put it to its best use??

Sun glasses at night ???

Very simple. Many say it wasn't close. You say it was. it doesn't matter how many times you repeat it. It doesn't make it so. Most people saw it differently. Doug Fischer had it 117-110, Kovalev. I had it 115-112 Kovalev myself. Some had it for Ward, close and some wide for Ward. Every one has a difference of opinion and that won't change no matter how many times you or anyone else says it was close. It was for you. It wasn't for everybody. It's boxing. There's no solid criteria for judging a fight really. Everyone gives a different answer on that. You can argue punch count but even that gets sketchy as punches can be hard to count even when watching it over and over. To make the claim that it was close no matter who says it wasn't is fine, but a lot of people aren't going to agree with that, no matter how many times you say it. Not really because a large % of the cards were very close. Only a very seldom few were wide like a Fishers and even still you can score the fight wide for Kovlaev it still doesn't change the fact that most of the rounds were close and it was an either way fight.

That goes both ways... How does it?

That goes both ways... no, close rounds go for ward only

All in going to say is that if Kovalev was stupid enough to think he was going to coast through the most important fight if his career, then honestly hr shouldn't be surprised at the result. There's no way you can tell me that is what he was thinking though. Because that would be dumb. Kind of like that Winky Wright vs. Jermain Taylor fight. In though Winky won that fight, it was scored a draw. And Winky had no one to blame buy himself for taking some of the last few rounds off. You don't take rounds off in fights like this. You press your advantage til you put your opponent away, either by KO or by much wider cards than this fight had. So if, like sine of you were saying, Kovalev was comfortable, then that's very unfortunate on his part. And it was the wrong gameplay. Yea, essentially, whatever was going on behind those stone cold eyes, it was the wrong play. If he was discouraged, it didn't help him. If he was comfortable being in the lead, bad look too since you're not the favorite and this guy isn't going away. If nothing else, a learning experience, hopefully.

All in going to say is that if Kovalev was stupid enough to think he was going to coast through the most important fight if his career, then honestly hr shouldn't be surprised at the result. There's no way you can tell me that is what he was thinking though. Because that would be dumb. Kind of like that Winky Wright vs. Jermain Taylor fight. In though Winky won that fight, it was scored a draw. And Winky had no one to blame buy himself for taking some of the last few rounds off. You don't take rounds off in fights like this. You press your advantage til you put your opponent away, either by KO or by much wider cards than this fight had. So if, like sine of you were saying, Kovalev was comfortable, then that's very unfortunate on his part. And it was the wrong gameplay.

It's hard for me to believe that he really thought he was doing enough to win and if that's the case then his corner is sh*t for not pressing him and putting some sense of urgency in him. The fight was a close fight and when you have the "deck stacked against you" then you need to go a step and beyond, fight with urgency and not let the judges "rob" you. Like in Pacquiao-Marquez 3. Marquez lost/ got robbed (whichever way you wanna call it) because Nacho kept telling him he was winning and Marquez just started jerking off letting Pacquiao into the fight. Like I said in another thread, in a fight this important you don't just "let off the gas" or try to "prove" that you can outbox someone. There's no time for experimenting. I agree with this personally but that doesn't mean Kovalev or his team do so we can't really say with certainty. I believe it, and Kovalev said it after the fight, and I am the kind of man that will believe a man's word unless I have a reason not to, and I don't, so I will.

This is what I meant yesterday when I said it's impossible to have a decent debate about this fight or any other "robbery" cause this is all you're gonna get. Just b*tching and whining. Yea, it's the equivalent to a protest. People aren't reading beyond thread titles and are just shouting the same rhetoric in every thread. Good points in your other post BTW. I have to wonder what was going on in Kovalev's corner. Yes. I think the knockdown was a gift and a curse. It made Ward become more aggressive to get inside and score to the body while it made Kovalev a bit discouraged and forced to regroup. I think the wrestling, body work and missed punches ultimately turned the fight in Ward's favor as he was able to outlast him and win the second half of the fight. The fact that Kovalev is looking for the KO in the rematch is good news for Ward because it will create more counter punching opportunities for him. The KD certainly woke him up, almost literally. I remember saying "I don't know what's wrong with Ward" before the first round was over. His eyes were red before the fight started. Looked drowsy. Fought lazy. After the KD, it's like he decided it was time to fight. I think Kovalev was in control of the fight and wasn't too concerned. Maybe that caused him to be a bit lax and unfortunately was his undoing. You won't see the same Kovalev in the next fight. Krusher will become a killer. Agreed. I think, no matter what the gameplan is in the 2nd, Kovalev will try to finish him. He's not a lazy fighter or a stupid one. He'll fight to keep it from slipping away from him again.

Kovalev was probably frustrated that he didn't get the KO and that Ward was such a difficult opponent. In my opinion with the knock down and throwing 137 more punches than Ward and landing 17 more power punches Kovalev clearly won a close fight. He took the fight to Ward and landed the harder punches through out the fight. If you only score the last 6 rounds then Ward won. If you score the entire fight including the two point knockdown then Kovalev clearly won with room to spare in my opinion. Three American judges thought otherwise and gave the fight to the gold medal winning, undefeated American. If you score rounds 1-12 you could score Ward 7 of them which the 3 judges kid, a quarter of press row did and plenty of fans did. That's just simply the truth, it was a close either way fight it doesn't matter how many times you guys repeat that it wasn't. Even the press row that scored it for Kovalev most scored it for him by 1 point which further shows how close the fight was.

I believe this may have been posted, but I want to discuss the emotional factor. No right or wrong answers. Do you think Kovalev got frustrated after he dropped Ward, only to see him come back stronger and faster as the rounds went by? Or, was Sergey not affected in that way, and maybe neglected to press the fight because he didn't feel (or recognize) that Ward was in it and turning it around? Personally, I feel it's a combination. Kovalev seemed to be confident after dropping him and got a little too lax. I don't think Kovalev was ever 'mad' or emotional, but I think he was discouraged that he couldn't slow Ward down or break him mentally. It did'nt seem to me that he was frustrated. He was actually very disciplined in the fight. Maybe to disciplined. As far as the second half of the fight goes, the fall off had a lot to do with Ward's body work paying off. I said it in another thread. If this were the 15 round days I think Ward may of stopped him.

Kovalev was probably frustrated that he didn't get the KO and that Ward was such a difficult opponent. In my opinion with the knock down and throwing 137 more punches than Ward and landing 17 more power punches Kovalev clearly won a close fight. He took the fight to Ward and landed the harder punches through out the fight. If you only score the last 6 rounds then Ward won. If you score the entire fight including the two point knockdown then Kovalev clearly won with room to spare in my opinion. Three American judges thought otherwise and gave the fight to the gold medal winning, undefeated American.

No, you see what you want to see.....from the start Kovalev was being patient, settting up his shots, trying not to miss, trying to not get greedy, trying to nullify Ward's strength inside, being responsible defensively. As long as he had 100% stamina, he was outboxing Ward while hurting him and easily. The problem for him is that as rounds passed, Ward got a bit more used to the timing, and wasn't taking as much damage, so he had enough confidence to keep the rounds competitive and move without going to dangerous places out of panic. Kovalev got complacent because he was landing tit for tat most of the time and had the big advantage early, and Ward was landing nothing hurtful so he figured he was winning these rounds too. If Ward didn't have the status he has inside boxing there's no way judges score 7 rounds for him end of. Round 10 is a clear indication that the judges wanted Ward to still have a chance to win going into the last round. There is a way because there were atleast 7 rounds that were close enough to be argued for Ward.

This is what I meant yesterday when I said it's impossible to have a decent debate about this fight or any other "robbery" cause this is all you're gonna get. Just b*tching and whining. YEAH, even if they think Kov won u would think they would give ward respect for going up to fight the top dog and making it close, but NOPE, nothing but emotions

It's dangerous to get too engaged in mind reading based on prior biases about the fighters. I've seen so much of this over the last few days: Kovalev's not landing shots - he must be frustrated and angry, tired too! Ward's not landing shots - he's so comfortable, completely in control! In both cases what's actually happening is that neither guy is landing shit. But when people bring their biases into, one guy is made out to be the loser and the other the winner. The idea that Kovalev was discouraged is ridiculous to me. Was Ward also discouraged? Because he wasn't landing any more than Kovalev? Was he frustrated and mad because he wasn't able to consistently counter Kovalev and control him? People need to stop falling into these narrative traps. Perfect post.

No, you see what you want to see.....from the start Kovalev was being patient, settting up his shots, trying not to miss, trying to not get greedy, trying to nullify Ward's strength inside, being responsible defensively. As long as he had 100% stamina, he was outboxing Ward while hurting him and easily. The problem for him is that as rounds passed, Ward got a bit more used to the timing, and wasn't taking as much damage, so he had enough confidence to keep the rounds competitive and move without going to dangerous places out of panic. Kovalev got complacent because he was landing tit for tat most of the time and had the big advantage early, and Ward was landing nothing hurtful so he figured he was winning these rounds too. If Ward didn't have the status he has inside boxing there's no way judges score 7 rounds for him end of. Round 10 is a clear indication that the judges wanted Ward to still have a chance to win going into the last round.

It's dangerous to get too engaged in mind reading based on prior biases about the fighters. I've seen so much of this over the last few days: Kovalev's not landing shots - he must be frustrated and angry, tired too! Ward's not landing shots - he's so comfortable, completely in control! In both cases what's actually happening is that neither guy is landing shit. But when people bring their biases into, one guy is made out to be the loser and the other the winner. The idea that Kovalev was discouraged is ridiculous to me. Was Ward also discouraged? Because he wasn't landing any more than Kovalev? Was he frustrated and mad because he wasn't able to consistently counter Kovalev and control him? People need to stop falling into these narrative traps. don't you know? the guy showboating must be winning because otherwise why would he be showboating!

It's dangerous to get too engaged in mind reading based on prior biases about the fighters. I've seen so much of this over the last few days: Kovalev's not landing shots - he must be frustrated and angry, tired too! Ward's not landing shots - he's so comfortable, completely in control! In both cases what's actually happening is that neither guy is landing shit. But when people bring their biases into, one guy is made out to be the loser and the other the winner. The idea that Kovalev was discouraged is ridiculous to me. Was Ward also discouraged? Because he wasn't landing any more than Kovalev? Was he frustrated and mad because he wasn't able to consistently counter Kovalev and control him? People need to stop falling into these narrative traps.

I believe this may have been posted, but I want to discuss the emotional factor. No right or wrong answers. Do you think Kovalev got frustrated after he dropped Ward, only to see him come back stronger and faster as the rounds went by? Or, was Sergey not affected in that way, and maybe neglected to press the fight because he didn't feel (or recognize) that Ward was in it and turning it around? Personally, I feel it's a combination. Kovalev seemed to be confident after dropping him and got a little too lax. I don't think Kovalev was ever 'mad' or emotional, but I think he was discouraged that he couldn't slow Ward down or break him mentally. I think Kovalev was in control of the fight and wasn't too concerned. Maybe that caused him to be a bit lax and unfortunately was his undoing. You won't see the same Kovalev in the next fight. Krusher will become a killer.

I believe this may have been posted, but I want to discuss the emotional factor. No right or wrong answers. Do you think Kovalev got frustrated after he dropped Ward, only to see him come back stronger and faster as the rounds went by? Or, was Sergey not affected in that way, and maybe neglected to press the fight because he didn't feel (or recognize) that Ward was in it and turning it around? Personally, I feel it's a combination. Kovalev seemed to be confident after dropping him and got a little too lax. I don't think Kovalev was ever 'mad' or emotional, but I think he was discouraged that he couldn't slow Ward down or break him mentally. Yes. I think the knockdown was a gift and a curse. It made Ward become more aggressive to get inside and score to the body while it made Kovalev a bit discouraged and forced to regroup. I think the wrestling, body work and missed punches ultimately turned the fight in Ward's favor as he was able to outlast him and win the second half of the fight. The fact that Kovalev is looking for the KO in the rematch is good news for Ward because it will create more counter punching opportunities for him.