Why Ward > Golovkin and Canelo

Sanchez is an ass, but he did not contradict himself. He said during the negotiations that occurred they did not mention 164 - which was my point. It was AFTER negotiations that Loeffler mentioned 164, and Sanchez parroted it. This is an argument. Nobody cares about probably. Sorry. "Denying him tuneups"? Abso-effing-lutely. This point has been beaten to the death, Golovkin has been looking to unify MW since 2012, and was a mandatory to Cotto since very early 2015. He had absolutely zero incentive to wait for Ward. Hell, let me rephrase it, he had a lot of negative incentive NOT to wait for him. That's exactly how it went. Golovkin said "I can fight this summer before Cotto/Canelo", Ward said he can't, and that was it. Just in case you're a fanboy who thinks I'm accusing Ward of ducking - I'm not. Ward was rusty,coming off 2 year layoff. He needed a tuneup. But he's not worth waiting around for, so the fight fell through. The idiots who toot their horn '154 to 168 but Ward at 164 doe' are the ones who dominate this forum and want to make it look like Golovkin ducked Ward because he's afraid of him or some bullsh1t like that. Neither guy is ducking or afraid of another, they both think they can win the fight. I agree on Hopkins, but he's definitely not the only one. There are many others who do the same. Google it. AGAIN - he's been acting like a diva for 6 years, and he tried and failed to be a diva for this fight. Just because he didn't get his way this time doesn't mean he's not a diva. I'm not even sure what the hell you're trying to argue. That's not even close to the same. Ward didn't have the ability to say no. He had a 3 fight contract with HBO which ended in fight with Kovalev. HBO is the one that said no to Oakland and forced him to fulfill his contract. Also, Canelo's 400 times more popular than Ward, and even he took heavy PR hits after his stunt. If Ward tried to say that he wont fight Kovalev because it's not in Oakland, that would be the nail in the coffin of his career. Sorry kid, but no businessman takes the first offer in a negotiation. I'm pretty sure in everything I'm saying here, but I don't go around stroking my own ego saying "guess who's wrong, it aint me". And I say pretty sure because both of us are fans of the sport who have no way of knowing exactly what happened. I put known facts in correct order and follow them to the most likely conclusion. Anywho, we're going around and there's no point to this anymore. Use the information or don't, you can't be any worse than the majority of idiots (shadow/about//sugarkhaine/golovkin/etc) I just felt like arguing cause I'm leaving these forums today. Made the decision before the thread, when I saw the state of the NSB thread list. An epiphany. Wanted to lure in the Golovkin hate gang to agree and then turn it around on them. The alts and trolls have ruined this place with Canelo GGG Ward threads. Too much race bait and pointless arguing for me. Boxingscene is a cesspit with a handful of good posters. It took me a few months to get bored. I'm only bothering to say this as you seem like a respectable poster. I don't have the will to post seriously any more. Take my badge and carry on the fight LOL. Signing out.

I didn't post a link to a video, it was an article. And if Abel said they will never take the fight at 168, and contradicted himself later then that's his problem. Like you said the fight didn't happen. And guess why - because they said no... Sanchez is an ass, but he did not contradict himself. He said during the negotiations that occurred they did not mention 164 - which was my point. It was AFTER negotiations that Loeffler mentioned 164, and Sanchez parroted it. Before and after. Probably never got round to it because they were denying him tuneups. But like sanchez said they would never fight at 168. 164 or get lost.This is an argument. Nobody cares about probably. Sorry. "Denying him tuneups"? Abso-effing-lutely. This point has been beaten to the death, Golovkin has been looking to unify MW since 2012, and was a mandatory to Cotto since very early 2015. He had absolutely zero incentive to wait for Ward. Hell, let me rephrase it, he had a lot of negative incentive NOT to wait for him. That's exactly how it went. Golovkin said "I can fight this summer before Cotto/Canelo", Ward said he can't, and that was it. Just in case you're a fanboy who thinks I'm accusing Ward of ducking - I'm not. Ward was rusty,coming off 2 year layoff. He needed a tuneup. But he's not worth waiting around for, so the fight fell through. The idiots who toot their horn '154 to 168 but Ward at 164 doe' are the ones who dominate this forum and want to make it look like Golovkin ducked Ward because he's afraid of him or some bullsh1t like that. Neither guy is ducking or afraid of another, they both think they can win the fight. Bernard Hopkins is Golden Boy and is trying to get the pressure off Canelo who is hurting himself to make 154. No expert is demanding Golovkin jump 2 divisions from 160 to 175 to fight the winner. I agree on Hopkins, but he's definitely not the only one. There are many others who do the same. Google it. Like I said. The fight is not taking place at a catchweight, in Oakland or with different Gloves. Ward has no advantages, but he's still taking the fight. AGAIN - he's been acting like a diva for 6 years, and he tried and failed to be a diva for this fight. Just because he didn't get his way this time doesn't mean he's not a diva. I'm not even sure what the hell you're trying to argue. But it's not in Oakland is it? When Canelo didn't have his say he gave up the belt and went back to 154 after years at 155. Ward didn't.That's not even close to the same. Ward didn't have the ability to say no. He had a 3 fight contract with HBO which ended in fight with Kovalev. HBO is the one that said no to Oakland and forced him to fulfill his contract. Also, Canelo's 400 times more popular than Ward, and even he took heavy PR hits after his stunt. If Ward tried to say that he wont fight Kovalev because it's not in Oakland, that would be the nail in the coffin of his career. He is rejecting offers of 8 figures, for 6 and 7 figure checks. If someone offered you a million to do something you could apparently easily do, or 100k to do something else you could easily do, which would you choose? You'd probably choose the wrong one too. Bye. Sorry kid, but no businessman takes the first offer in a negotiation. Funny that isn't it because I'm sure you think you're right in everything you're saying, otherwise you wouldn't be saying it... I'm pretty sure in everything I'm saying here, but I don't go around stroking my own ego saying "guess who's wrong, it aint me". And I say pretty sure because both of us are fans of the sport who have no way of knowing exactly what happened. I put known facts in correct order and follow them to the most likely conclusion. Anywho, we're going around and there's no point to this anymore. Use the information or don't, you can't be any worse than the majority of idiots (shadow/about//sugarkhaine/golovkin/etc)

Wrong. He was whining about 'why me and not others'. He didn't say a word about there being no fights. Link Again, educate yourself. The negotiations took place in first half of 2015. Sometime before middle of June, the negotiations broke down. Here's an interview by Golovkin, dated June 15th, in which he says Ward turned down the fight. At this point, any and all negotiations between the fighters are dead. The video you posted is from end of July 2015 where Sanchez is talking sh1t. it's not even the first time 164 is being brought up. The 164 comment was first made by Loeffler on July 8th - full 2 weeks before Sanchez parroted it, and at LEAST 2 weeks after any and all negotiations between Ward and Golovkin were absolutely, undeniably dead. I didn't post a link to a video, it was an article. And if Abel said they will never take the fight at 168, and contradicted himself later then that's his problem. Like you said the fight didn't happen. And guess why - because they said no... Also according to Sanchez, here he says that during those negotiations, they never asked for 164. Probably never got round to it because they were denying him tuneups. But like sanchez said they would never fight at 168. 164 or get lost. The 164 was said by Loeffler after the negotiations fell through. The end. Nobody gives a sh1t about you. But Bernard Hopkins challenged him to fight Kov/Ward winner, as has multiple other experts. Bernard Hopkins is Golden Boy and is trying to get the pressure off Canelo who is hurting himself to make 154. No expert is demanding Golovkin jump 2 divisions from 160 to 175 to fight the winner. Da fuk? Past 6 years of diva behavior doesn't prove that he's a diva? He deserves a spot on P4P list based off what he did 5 years ago, but being a diva over the course of the 5 years doesn't count? Get the hell out of here fanboy. Like I said. The fight is not taking place at a catchweight, in Oakland or with different Gloves. Ward has no advantages, but he's still taking the fight. And BTW - the fight with Kovalev was in jeopardy because he wanted to move it to Oakland. So yeah, he didn't get the fight in Oakland because HBO told him to go screw himself, but he sure as hell tried to be a diva again. Source But it's not in Oakland is it? When Canelo didn't have his say he gave up the belt and went back to 154 after years at 155. Ward didn't. This is so dumb it's not even worth mentioning. "he'd make a ton of money in canelo fight"? Yeah, no sh1t sherlock. You said he 'makes little money'. He doesn't. Bye. He is rejecting offers of 8 figures, for 6 and 7 figure checks. If someone offered you a million to do something you could apparently easily do, or 100k to do something else you could easily do, which would you choose? You'd probably choose the wrong one too. Bye. Cool. Everyone's a self entitled 22 year old know it all who always thinks he's right. Did you make that speech in front of a mirror while giving yourself a pep talk? Funny that isn't it because I'm sure you think you're right in everything you're saying, otherwise you wouldn't be saying it...

Complaining because he had to move up because there were no fights, Abel Sanchez said 164 or no fight, go see the link. It's from his own mouth. 164 or no fight. So Ward took the next biggest fight in Kov. Wrong. He was whining about 'why me and not others'. He didn't say a word about there being no fights. Link Again, educate yourself. The negotiations took place in first half of 2015. Sometime before middle of June, the negotiations broke down. Here's an interview by Golovkin, dated June 15th, in which he says Ward turned down the fight. At this point, any and all negotiations between the fighters are dead. The video you posted is from end of July 2015 where Sanchez is talking sh1t. it's not even the first time 164 is being brought up. The 164 comment was first made by Loeffler on July 8th - full 2 weeks before Sanchez parroted it, and at LEAST 2 weeks after any and all negotiations between Ward and Golovkin were absolutely, undeniably dead. Also according to Sanchez, here he says that during those negotiations, they never asked for 164. The 164 was said by Loeffler after the negotiations fell through. The end. By who? Cause it's not me. Golovkin has no need to move up. Except for people who want to see him lose.Nobody gives a sh1t about you. But Bernard Hopkins challenged him to fight Kov/Ward winner, as has multiple other experts. Is he fighting Kovalev in Oakland? Has he picked his gloves? No. And that's my point. Whatever he demanded in the past he is not having vs Kov so point is a dud.Da fuk? Past 6 years of diva behavior doesn't prove that he's a diva? He deserves a spot on P4P list based off what he did 5 years ago, but being a diva over the course of the 5 years doesn't count? Get the hell out of here fanboy. And BTW - the fight with Kovalev was in jeopardy because he wanted to move it to Oakland. So yeah, he didn't get the fight in Oakland because HBO told him to go screw himself, but he sure as hell tried to be a diva again. Source No need. From the horses mouth, Abel Sanchez said they will NEVER fight at 168. 164 or no deal. I gave a link where's yours salty?Look above. Golovkin would make a ton more money in a Canelo fight. There are superstars to fight. The term little is relative. Definitions of relative can be found in a dictionary if interested.This is so dumb it's not even worth mentioning. "he'd make a ton of money in canelo fight"? Yeah, no sh1t sherlock. You said he 'makes little money'. He doesn't. Bye. Not one thing I posted is wrong. Links provided and all your points debunked. If you want to disagree with me, quote each point please, then we can break it down piece by piece and see who's really wrong, and spoiler: It ain't me. Cool. Everyone's a self entitled 22 year old know it all who always thinks he's right. Did you make that speech in front of a mirror while giving yourself a pep talk?

No your throwing shade at GGG and Canelo while sucking off Ward. Your no better then the *****s who just want to see GGG lose. No I'm saying Ward is the greater boxer, whilst defending GGG and saying he doesn't need to move up. So that's the 3rd time you've been wrong now. You obviously have a problem reading and your emotional involvement in the whole thing is clouding your perception. Try some meditation or something.

The whole video in context? If Golovkin is saying he can do 154-168 "easily" then what other context is needed to assume he's talking about fighting in a lower or upper division? That video was uploaded in 2014 by Esnews.com So ask, would be harder to make 168 then vs now? And what about that 164 catch with Ward? I agree Abel is a dumbass, but that doesn't Golovkin from playing the part too. "Kell Brook...juss...he too small, jusss trash talk." Months later.. "You know...jusss...he biggest Challenge for me.." Post fight.. "You know...jusss.. he not Middleweight." Just stop excusing these things and giving Golovkin the benefit of the doubt. I assure everyone that living a non gullible life will save you from rotten salesmen and insurance companies... Unless of course its all just denial and acknowledging everything behind the scenes and just trolling. Therefore, it's best to just go with the flow now, be real, amd pressure Golovkin to move up and be great with his old ass. Don't get mad cause I took a scientific and skeptical approach in asking for the video in context. You should try looking at things in context more often. Rational and critical thinking is what separated us from the rest of the animal kingdom, so I intend to fully carry on using it. Don't be part of that mob mentality. I'm not excusing anything like I said he won't fight Ward at 168 because he'll lose, and boxing is a business. Simple really mate, stop getting your panties in a twist because I don't share your agenda.

Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it wasn't full of misinformation. -Ward did not "decide to skip all the BS and move up to 175". He complained about being "forced to move up", and fought 3 tuneups, two of which were balooned up SMWs. Complaining because he had to move up because there were no fights, Abel Sanchez said 164 or no fight, go see the link. It's from his own mouth. 164 or no fight. So Ward took the next biggest fight in Kov. They also denied him 'because he wanted tuneups'. Well GGG could have gone on fighting other people while he waited. GGG also didn't want to go to 168, because then he would be at a disadvantage having to get back to 160. And he's been chasing the Canelo fight. Putting on 8lbs of muscle and losing it again damages the body. It's science. Then he has less of getting the fight and if he does then chance of beating Alvarez. Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it Golovkin is being challlenged to jump up and fight Ward/Kovalev winner immediatey. By who? Cause it's not me. Golovkin has no need to move up. Except for people who want to see him lose. Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it And no "diva demands"? Is that a joke? The man is known as the biggest diva today. Goosen, Oakland fights, Rupert Murdoch/Brand as opponents, difficulty in Kovalev negotiations, etc. Is he fighting Kovalev in Oakland? Has he picked his gloves? Is it at a catchweight? No. And that's my point. Whatever he demanded in the past he is not having vs Kov so point is a dud. Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it -I'm not rehashing the same bullsh1t. 164 was a statement made by Loeffler after the fight was already dead. All negotiations, which occured in early 2015, took place at 168. Blah blah blah 154-168, educate yourself instead of parroting 4 year old BS. No need. From the horses mouth, Abel Sanchez said they will NEVER fight at 168. 164 or no deal. I gave a link where's yours salty? Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it -Golovkin makes "little money"? He's one of the highest paid, highest rated boxing stars today, easily in the top10. Once again, educate yourself. Golovkin would make a ton more money in a Canelo fight. There are superstars to fight. The term little is relative. Definitions of relative can be found in a dictionary if interested. Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it Your whole thread can be summarized "Ward is a defensive fighter, which means he has a higher chance of winnig that other styles". That part is true. But majority of other things you used as support is bullsh1t. Not one thing I posted is wrong. Links provided and all your points debunked. If you want to disagree with me, quote each point please, then we can break it down piece by piece and see who's really wrong, and spoiler: It ain't me.

Hes not anymore so wtf is the point in talking about it? I swear by this logic you better be taking a dump on the Kovalev-Ward winner for not calling out Wilder. Because I'm talking about what happened at the time. What a banana. Don't bother with history lessons, it's not the same anymore - your logic. Nice one mate.

Promo issues for 5 years? No excuse for fighting 40 year old narcos Sadly, ggg hasn't done any better. Both need to seriously step it up. Fortunately, one of them had the balls to do just that. Nov 19thv baby.

Uh.. no. Your reasoning would kinda work if it wasn't full of misinformation. -Ward did not "decide to skip all the BS and move up to 175". He complained about being "forced to move up", and fought 3 tuneups, two of which were balooned up SMWs. Golovkin is being challlenged to jump up and fight Ward/Kovalev winner immediatey. And no "diva demands"? Is that a joke? The man is known as the biggest diva today. Goosen, Oakland fights, Rupert Murdoch/Brand as opponents, difficulty in Kovalev negotiations, etc. -I'm not rehashing the same bullsh1t. 164 was a statement made by Loeffler after the fight was already dead. All negotiations, which occured in early 2015, took place at 168. Blah blah blah 154-168, educate yourself instead of parroting 4 year old BS. -Golovkin makes "little money"? He's one of the highest paid, highest rated boxing stars today, easily in the top10. Once again, educate yourself. Your whole thread can be summarized "Ward is a defensive fighter, which means he has a higher chance of winnig that other styles". That part is true. But majority of other things you used as support is bullsh1t.

Anyone with a pulse in last 5 years Ok big drama, Ward had promotional issues and as soon as they were resolved he set up a deal to fight Kovalev. Keep trolling though...

I'll never understand the reputation on here that ward is a 'take on all comers' fighter. If he gets in the ring, that's one hard fight he's had in five years. Hardly amazing. Who has Ward refused to fight?

It's just not feasible. It's like saying ggg at 147. Not sure why the hypothetical was even thrown out there. On the subject, I used to think ggg could do 154 but after seeing the Brook weigh-ins, I'm not so sure anymore. 157 is probably feasible though. If he agrees to a Canelo catch weight, I'll bet his fans go ape though. This place will be insufferable. No, it's like saying GGG at 154 (because we were talking about a 168 Ward). And GGG would be weak at 154. It just demonstrates who is best at which weight. The whole idea that fighters have to move up to prove how good they are baffles me. They can be great without it (I still like Hagler). But when they do move up and beat the top guy it helps cement their ATG legacy. But skills are skills and some styles don't carry well in higher weight divisions. In Canelo's case he really should move up because 5 fights in a row at middleweight catch-weights makes you a middleweight. In actuality GGG is the only one not struggling to make his weight, so he is the only one that didn't need to move. But his strength would not benefit him as much at 168. Wards style is more suited to moving through a weight class as he doesn't rely as much on power or strength. Same thing with Canelo he will not be as devastating at 160, but he's young and he is getting better at pure boxing, so he has time to grow into it.

You are clearly a Ward fan going out of your way to make Ward into Mr. perfect man who is so much braver than GGG. You use false or questionable statements to try to achieve this. Ward's challenge to GGG to fight him was a verbal challenge through the media. Nobody has ever seen a written copy of Ward's challenge because he never made a serious written challenge. Ward's media challenge was made when GGG was in training for a legally binding, contracted fight with Lemieux so he couldn't fight Ward then. Ward couldn't have fought him at 168 because he had long ago outgrown that weight. Ward's last fight at 168 was in November 2013. He gave up his 168 pound title because he couldn't make that weight and his next fight was at 172 in June of 2015. If Ward had wanted to fight at 168 there were the usual 4 168 pound champions he could have fought instead of GGG. Ward didn't move up to 175 because he was so fearless and wanted a challenge. His body gave him no choice but to move up to 175. Ward has been a pro for about 12 years and he has a record of 30 wins, 15 by KO. GGG has been a pro for about 10 years and has a record of 36 wins with 33KOs. He has more KO wins than Ward has total fights. GGG has made 17 successful defenses of his world titles and won them all by KO. That's more than twice the amount of title defenses Ward made. So when it comes down to who is the better pound for pound fighter, I'll chose GGG over Ward. GGG fights all over the world while Ward has over 90% of his fights in Oakland. Why is that? GGG is ranked above Ward pound for pound by Ring, ESPN, Boxing Scene, HBO, Boxrec and just about every other place that has a pound for pound best list. Golovkin's Coach: Andre Ward must go to 164 or no fight: http://www.boxingscene.com/golovkins-coach-andre-ward-go-164-no-fight--93850 Straight from the horses mouth ^^

Ward would be a skeleton at 160. http://www.passion-pictures.com/australia/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DARREN-PEPERAMI1.jpg It's just not feasible. It's like saying ggg at 147. Not sure why the hypothetical was even thrown out there. On the subject, I used to think ggg could do 154 but after seeing the Brook weigh-ins, I'm not so sure anymore. 157 is probably feasible though. If he agrees to a Canelo catch weight, I'll bet his fans go ape though. This place will be insufferable.

You are clearly a Ward fan going out of your way to make Ward into Mr. perfect man who is so much braver than GGG. You use false or questionable statements to try to achieve this. Ward's challenge to GGG to fight him was a verbal challenge through the media. Nobody has ever seen a written copy of Ward's challenge because he never made a serious written challenge. Ward's media challenge was made when GGG was in training for a legally binding, contracted fight with Lemieux so he couldn't fight Ward then. Ward couldn't have fought him at 168 because he had long ago outgrown that weight. Ward's last fight at 168 was in November 2013. He gave up his 168 pound title because he couldn't make that weight and his next fight was at 172 in June of 2015. If Ward had wanted to fight at 168 there were the usual 4 168 pound champions he could have fought instead of GGG. Ward didn't move up to 175 because he was so fearless and wanted a challenge. His body gave him no choice but to move up to 175. Ward has been a pro for about 12 years and he has a record of 30 wins, 15 by KO. GGG has been a pro for about 10 years and has a record of 36 wins with 33KOs. He has more KO wins than Ward has total fights. GGG has made 17 successful defenses of his world titles and won them all by KO. That's more than twice the amount of title defenses Ward made. So when it comes down to who is the better pound for pound fighter, I'll chose GGG over Ward. GGG fights all over the world while Ward has over 90% of his fights in Oakland. Why is that? GGG is ranked above Ward pound for pound by Ring, ESPN, Boxing Scene, HBO, Boxrec and just about every other place that has a pound for pound best list. Yeah, I'm so clearly a Ward fan... I just got bored of all the Canelo and GGG threads. Where's the props for Ward?? Check my previous posts praising Golovkin's skills. I'm one of his biggest defenders when it came to his performace against Brook, like I said he didn't respect his power (like he did Lemiuex). Ward will go straight above GGG in the p4p lists when he beats Kovalev. He's been dropped due to inactivity... I knew I'd get some casuals riled up with this. Guess what... I'm white as well. Feel the burn!

Ward at 160? I don't think so... Ward would be a skeleton at 160. http://www.passion-pictures.com/australia/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/DARREN-PEPERAMI1.jpg

You are clearly a Ward fan going out of your way to make Ward into Mr. perfect man who is so much braver than GGG. You use false or questionable statements to try to achieve this. Ward's challenge to GGG to fight him was a verbal challenge through the media. Nobody has ever seen a written copy of Ward's challenge because he never made a serious written challenge. Ward's media challenge was made when GGG was in training for a legally binding, contracted fight with Lemieux so he couldn't fight Ward then. Ward couldn't have fought him at 168 because he had long ago outgrown that weight. Ward's last fight at 168 was in November 2013. He gave up his 168 pound title because he couldn't make that weight and his next fight was at 172 in June of 2015. If Ward had wanted to fight at 168 there were the usual 4 168 pound champions he could have fought instead of GGG. Ward didn't move up to 175 because he was so fearless and wanted a challenge. His body gave him no choice but to move up to 175. Ward has been a pro for about 12 years and he has a record of 30 wins, 15 by KO. GGG has been a pro for about 10 years and has a record of 36 wins with 33KOs. He has more KO wins than Ward has total fights. GGG has made 17 successful defenses of his world titles and won them all by KO. That's more than twice the amount of title defenses Ward made. So when it comes down to who is the better pound for pound fighter, I'll chose GGG over Ward. GGG fights all over the world while Ward has over 90% of his fights in Oakland. Why is that? GGG is ranked above Ward pound for pound by Ring, ESPN, Boxing Scene, HBO, Boxrec and just about every other place that has a pound for pound best list.

Ward is 2 divisions heavier gtfo LOL. Read the post and try to remember to breathe at the same time. Ward was at 168 at one point you know...

http://i67.tinypic.com/1zc3e2x.png I'd like to see the whole video in context. Doesn't seem like he's saying he'll beat Ward at 168, just that he can get to 168. Abel is talking promotional saying it's an easy fight. Still I'd call it a mistake because he ain't beating Ward at 168. Irrelevant now though as Ward is at 175.