Has anyone thought about it this way concerning GGG

I think a lot of people are trying to force GGG into certain fights at the wrong time of his choosing. Canelo just dropped the belt so he doesn't have to fight at a certain weight imo its a smart move on Canelo. This way if GGG wants that big PPV fight with Canelo hes gonna have to fight on Canelos term. Hes taking off on that fight and will slowly move up for GGG. This is bad for GGG because now,it gives him two choices. Its pushes him closer to getting to that Andre ward fight that he has to move UP in weight for or continue fighting at the weight he is now. Problem is he dominated everyone in there no one else to fight.

For sure. If I had my way, believe me- 8/9 divisions and one world champion per division. Right not we have Golovkin, WBC/IBF/WBA Champion at middleweight, Kovalev, WBA/WBO/IBF Champion at light heavyweight, Tyson Fury, WBA/WBO Champion at heavyweight and Dennis Lebedev, WBA/IBF Champion at cruiserweight. So, it isn't all bad, but it could be better. I know the WBA is trying to unify their cruiserweight belts which is ridiculous but at least a step in the right direction. My guess is the money has dried up on those add-on titles. Either way, a few good things are happening. Me too man, me too. If there's any one thing I could change about boxing it would definitely be re-implementing the old school division/champion situation. It would be so refreshing to be able to easily reel off a short and easy list of each divisional champion rather than have to check each organisations rankings and then compare them to the general consensus* so we can see who 'appears' to be or should be the man. I get what you mean, some divisions have champions in them that are clearly the king, but the water is still cloudy and it always will be unless the sport rids itself of its excess of titles. *Personally I like to go off the Transnational Boxing Board for actual rankings, and then out of interest run quick checks on who else in the ranks of each division has title claims other than 'THE' champion listed. Doesn't solve any title claim confusions by an stretch, but it helps keep track of who should be where.

Where has team Golovkin said it was problematic? For a while they've said a 168 fight is possible for a payday. That 1 fight doesn't stop the goal of unifying his natural division, its just a one off payday. If they said weight was problematic so we shouldn't fight Ward, then they messed up. They should have been honest and said a Ward fight isn't the payday we want to move up. Which is fine, in my view any fighter should be compensated for the disavantages like that. Golovkin's 168 choices have been entirely consistent - Froch in the UK, Chavez Jr, and in the pipeline now, Ramirez when he cracks stardom. They're all huge money fights for him. He hasnt called anyone else out by name. I use Floyd as a similar example, as his 154 project is a carbon copy - Floyd being undersized, but he took the money fights - Oscar, Cotto and Canelo at 152. The Canelo scenario is interesting because team Golovkin knew they had at least some leverage (WBC and public demand), and could fit the Canelo fight into his main goal of unifying as they both held belts. I expected some half way agreement eventually (60/40 at 157, maybe) but Canelo made his intentions clear when he vacated the title. I dont think anyone is sure how much dropping weight will affect a 34 year old Golovkin, but I don't think its entirely the same as moving up. I wish Canelo would just go back down to 154 where the fight becomes irrelevant. My apologies if my language was too accusational, as per the bolded Its cool. you and I always have fierce but fair debates. I am not one that thinks GGG deserves any criticism because he diets correctly and sstays in shape. He doesn't have to go up to prove anything to me. He also gets no blame from me for the Canelo situation. My only criticism is what i posted. He can fight whoever he wants next. I just hope this time he chooses the best possible opponent.

It may not be, yet GGG , his team, and fans suggest going up and coming back down would be unfair or problematic, yet never said this when the fights were winnable for the money. I do not think you can have it both ways. No I am not and its not right to suggest or act like I am doing this. I am responding to what I've seen and heard from GGG and his camp. I am not suggesting he'd have to stay at 168. I am saying specifically that if going up and coming down is a detriment to GGG, then it has to be in all cases of going up and coming down. You just can't use that excuse when the fight isn't one he is likely to win. Where has team Golovkin said it was problematic? For a while they've said a 168 fight is possible for a payday. That 1 fight doesn't stop the goal of unifying his natural division, its just a one off payday. If they said weight was problematic so we shouldn't fight Ward, then they messed up. They should have been honest and said a Ward fight isn't the payday we want to move up. Which is fine, in my view any fighter should be compensated for the disavantages like that. Golovkin's 168 choices have been entirely consistent - Froch in the UK, Chavez Jr, and in the pipeline now, Ramirez when he cracks stardom. They're all huge money fights for him. He hasnt called anyone else out by name. I use Floyd as a similar example, as his 154 project is a carbon copy - Floyd being undersized, but he took the money fights - Oscar, Cotto and Canelo at 152. The Canelo scenario is interesting because team Golovkin knew they had at least some leverage (WBC and public demand), and could fit the Canelo fight into his main goal of unifying as they both held belts. I expected some half way agreement eventually (60/40 at 157, maybe) but Canelo made his intentions clear when he vacated the title. I dont think anyone is sure how much dropping weight will affect a 34 year old Golovkin, but I don't think its entirely the same as moving up. I wish Canelo would just go back down to 154 where the fight becomes irrelevant. My apologies if my language was too accusational, as per the bolded

If it's casual for you to compare one elevated status sanctioning body's belt to TWO sanctioning bodies then we're not on the same page. Do you really think people are requesting a Lara bout vs Golovkin because of Lara's 154 prestige? If it wasn't for the skill alone, nobody would even mention it. The reason people are requesting the bout is because styles make fights. Also your point is contradictory or flawed because you're criticizing one fighter that has less of the impact of the same situation and therefore they shouldn't fight? Or we comparing elevated Champ status? Moreso, who has the better resume between Lara and Golovkin? In fact, the criticism towards Golovkin has nothing to do with Lara since particularly they are in different divisions. My criticism is that elevated WBA and WBC isn't good for boxing. You have your opinions. My point was simply that your logic of having two elevated titles makes for a bad career was, and still is faulty. Its such a poor attempt to try twist the scenario into one where you blame Golovkin. Elevated titles are bad for the sport. So all blame to the people who allowed this to happen, namely Geale and Canelo. Geale eventually manned up, so I can give him some credit at least. Despite your attempt to alter the frame of the narrative, you have to include the context, which means apportioning blame. You can't not do this just because Golovkin wouldn't be at the end of the criticism. Your critique of Golovkin's team is a separate point entirely, as theres no evidence that any other promoter would have done as well or any better. We forget, Golovkin has only enjoyed having a 'name' for two years or so, and thats down to HBO showcasing and investing in him. Had he been picked up a lot earlier, it may be different, but it'd be silly to expect him to have been as an unknown Kazakh with no wider links

I don't understand your reasoning at all. Going up for 1 payday fight is not incompatible with pursuing an ultimate goal of unification. Golovkin would not lose his titles unless he vacates the division, which he would not be doing. You're pretending everything Golovkin has done at middleweight suddenly disappears when he takes one payday fight outside. There has never been an ounce of indication that he'd stay at 168 after a big fight, not dissimilar to Floyd and his experiments at 154 It may not be, yet GGG , his team, and fans suggest going up and coming back down would be unfair or problematic, yet never said this when the fights were winnable for the money. I do not think you can have it both ways. No I am not and its not right to suggest or act like I am doing this. I am responding to what I've seen and heard from GGG and his camp. I am not suggesting he'd have to stay at 168. I am saying specifically that if going up and coming down is a detriment to GGG, then it has to be in all cases of going up and coming down. You just can't use that excuse when the fight isn't one he is likely to win.

Interesting perspective. Definitely not the way I see it but this makes sense. The only reason I would disagree with you is the fact that being an undisputed champion was still out there when the Chavez and Froch fights were being pursued. If you are willing to give up the "goal" of holding all the belts for the payday and/or are willing to go up and come down in weight for the money, to then say unification is your dream rings hollow. I don't understand your reasoning at all. Going up for 1 payday fight is not incompatible with pursuing an ultimate goal of unification. Golovkin would not lose his titles unless he vacates the division, which he would not be doing. You're pretending everything Golovkin has done at middleweight suddenly disappears when he takes one payday fight outside. There has never been an ounce of indication that he'd stay at 168 after a big fight, not dissimilar to Floyd and his experiments at 154

WBA and WBC elevated status... non tangible title fights. casual boxing fans still don't get it. yet they enjoy criticizing other p4p kings that went up the ladder to win belts. it's not about "it's not his fault GGG was elevated to the status" it's called being very unlucky in making a legacy. it's really called Tom Loeffler and Abel Sanchez. Had Lil'G been with a different promoter and trainer, assuming he's as good as he turns out to be, then it's safe to say he would currently have a better career. love it. So titles ('tangible' in your view) make a career, huh? I take it you arent one of those calling for a Lara fight then, as he has never won a world title in the ring. He doesn't have any legacy at all, surely?

No, even with most thinking Kovalev is the man, Adonis is STILL the lineal. And lately, I hear a few who even like Stevenson in the fight. Me? I think if Ward is truly adapted to the division after his next fight, he beats them both. Lineal can reflect less than an ABC title, which it does in Canelo's case. In Stevenson's case, it means just as much as a paper WBC belt. So contender status. We shouldn't look at titles on face value alone, that's a pretty poor excuse not to think. The fighter defines the title. Its a common mistake of perception when it comes to lineal titles. Yes, Stevenson is 'the man' when looking through a lineal lense, but it doesn't make him 'the man' in general. Theres very few people who look at boxing through a lineal lense because of the inherent and fatal flaws in the system.

A few folks on this forum have stated about GGG wanting all the titles at middleweight is hurting his legacy/wallet because "Titles don't matter" and he isn't chasing "big fights". Has anyone thought of it like this. If he gets all the belts he will be the only champion at middleweight. Which means there is only one person to fight if they want to be considered the best in the division. Therefore....the so called "big fights" will have to come to him. Please let me know if I am wrong and tell me why. Interesting perspective. Definitely not the way I see it but this makes sense. The only reason I would disagree with you is the fact that being an undisputed champion was still out there when the Chavez and Froch fights were being pursued. If you are willing to give up the "goal" of holding all the belts for the payday and/or are willing to go up and come down in weight for the money, to then say unification is your dream rings hollow.

But the problem with having all the belts is that it's hard to keep up with your mandatory obligations, especially with the likes of the IBF who are very strict, so you might need to give some up over time then you end up with a paper champ who probably has no interesting in fighting the best. Also, many fighters these days don't particularly respect belts like they once did. The truth is some fighters are bigger than the belts. Canelo will be making money with or without a belt, so he can duck fighters like GGG.

This is what is so great about being undisputed champion. Sooner or later, they will all come to you. Either that, or they'll be shamed for being a coward. It's very simple and yes, it does work. If this sport had any integrity and we didn't have a hundred champions any more, this would be much more evident. When you wanted a title shot in the '40s, there was Joe Louis. You had to go through him to get it. Very simple. Damn right. The way this sport was, and how it should be. Unfortunately in todays world it is not, so in my opinion if a fighter comes a long and makes it a firm statement that they want to achieve this, it blows my mind how some people don't support it. There should be one champ per division, but today that is extremely difficult, so the next best thing is plotting to complete a clean sweep of the main titles and therefore become that 'one champ'. How can you not like a guy that wants that? It is the way the sport should be.

Exactly. B hop was on a huge tear but it's fame that had alluded him and the fan recognition. B Hop is only a good example in terms of fame/recognition. B Hop although he lost to Roy had at least seen good (if not huge named) competition. I remember here jn the states (west coast) not many knew B Hop and in Mexico it was just relatives who boxed and kept up with the game. But the average de la hoya or tito fan though he was just gonna get William Joppy'd by Tito. So we have the legendary B Hop who despite his in ring prowess even he knew he has to give to fight Oscar and like all who have dared to not just be great, but be great infront of a big audience he did it and never looked back. So we have GGG who doesn't even have the quality of opposition B Hop had..has passed on literally everyone who's called him out aside from a contender in Curtis Stevens.. You can't let guys like Mora, Lara, Ward, chavez Jr, Froch, and Canelo all call you out in some form and not have a SINGLE one of those fights materialize. Why fight guys like Ishida? Just to "stay active"? So this thing with Canelo...how does team GGG say theyre fighting in september with or without Canelo? Why is not fighting the big name not a priority? Cuz he'll get mad if he isn't active? He's letting guys slip away with that bull sh it lol. And... Sure, he schools and slaughters Mora and Lara but they are names people recognize. They're spoiler type oponents that "up and comers" usually have to get through for people not to say he'll get exposed at the first sign of a cagey, durable guy. GGG is fighting up and comers..he's not even fighting established journeymen or contenders or has beens. He's okay with never were type guys... And with his amount of talent his team is doing him a disservice. 10 wades doesn't equal a Ward or a Canelo no matter how much they want it to. Team GGG is too dismissive for someone who's best win is Lemieux (I like Lemieux a lot and think that was a solid win). Put your fighter on the shelf for an extra month or two and show us fans you're actively trying to make these fights. They're too dismissive and passive. Say it to the press, make videos..call fighters out at press conferences..get in the mix. Tell us "I'll fight Canelo at 155 as long as I get at least a 20% split! I accept all other terms!" Walk around with a f ucking contract...do a Shannon Briggs. Make these guys fight GGG don't just be like "Oh hey..so...CAnelo negotiations not going good...so we're fighting whoever in september regardless"..b itch... That's not what we want to hear. We want to hear "We bent everyway to make the fight. We agreed to this we agreed to that" so that we can call Canelo a coward. Hard to call Canelo a coward when you have team GGG trying to negotiate. What is their to negotiate? Seriously.. What does team GGG want from these guys? Fairness? Lmao I disagree with one thing. I would say that Murray was his best win. I feel he got robbed against Martinez worse than Lara against Canelo. How do you knock someone down twice (One of them the ref waived off but it was a clear knockdown) and lose a UD without being knocked down yourself? I truly believe that Golovkin needs to speak to a pro-wrestler and just learn how to cut a promo. I think that inside he must want to say a lot more about these guys that are calling him out than "i want to entertain my fans" "Big drama show", "I love you merica!!"' "all the belts". Can you imagine if Golovkin talked as much Sh*t as Ali (Who learned from Gorgeous George)

Unless that beltholder can make more money with someone else. Gennady still hasn't proven he is a great payday yet. He would have been if Cotto or Canelo would have fought him. Who else can bring in that big money? No one!

No bad example he had: Glen Johnson , John David Jackson ; Keith Holmes ( world champions) and was on the warpath with over a dozen defenses -- I just didn't start watching boxing a few years ago people knew about X way before so yes the public did know how good he was years before Tito and they most definitely knew him when he got to the Golden boy Delahoya , and you yourself mentioned that he made concessions for Oscar so there goes that argument for lil G. Exactly. B hop was on a huge tear but it's fame that had alluded him and the fan recognition. B Hop is only a good example in terms of fame/recognition. B Hop although he lost to Roy had at least seen good (if not huge named) competition. I remember here jn the states (west coast) not many knew B Hop and in Mexico it was just relatives who boxed and kept up with the game. But the average de la hoya or tito fan though he was just gonna get William Joppy'd by Tito. So we have the legendary B Hop who despite his in ring prowess even he knew he has to give to fight Oscar and like all who have dared to not just be great, but be great infront of a big audience he did it and never looked back. So we have GGG who doesn't even have the quality of opposition B Hop had..has passed on literally everyone who's called him out aside from a contender in Curtis Stevens.. You can't let guys like Mora, Lara, Ward, chavez Jr, Froch, and Canelo all call you out in some form and not have a SINGLE one of those fights materialize. Why fight guys like Ishida? Just to "stay active"? So this thing with Canelo...how does team GGG say theyre fighting in september with or without Canelo? Why is not fighting the big name not a priority? Cuz he'll get mad if he isn't active? He's letting guys slip away with that bull sh it lol. And... Sure, he schools and slaughters Mora and Lara but they are names people recognize. They're spoiler type oponents that "up and comers" usually have to get through for people not to say he'll get exposed at the first sign of a cagey, durable guy. GGG is fighting up and comers..he's not even fighting established journeymen or contenders or has beens. He's okay with never were type guys... And with his amount of talent his team is doing him a disservice. 10 wades doesn't equal a Ward or a Canelo no matter how much they want it to. Team GGG is too dismissive for someone who's best win is Lemieux (I like Lemieux a lot and think that was a solid win). Put your fighter on the shelf for an extra month or two and show us fans you're actively trying to make these fights. They're too dismissive and passive. Say it to the press, make videos..call fighters out at press conferences..get in the mix. Tell us "I'll fight Canelo at 155 as long as I get at least a 20% split! I accept all other terms!" Walk around with a f ucking contract...do a Shannon Briggs. Make these guys fight GGG don't just be like "Oh hey..so...CAnelo negotiations not going good...so we're fighting whoever in september regardless"..b itch... That's not what we want to hear. We want to hear "We bent everyway to make the fight. We agreed to this we agreed to that" so that we can call Canelo a coward. Hard to call Canelo a coward when you have team GGG trying to negotiate. What is their to negotiate? Seriously.. What does team GGG want from these guys? Fairness? Lmao

B Hop is a good example in that he went a long time with no recognition. We all say he got better with age but did he? He was always so good but nobody cared until Tito and Oscar foolishly fought him. Even B hop conceded some to fight Oscar. I'd say it paid off in a big way. To the "casual" B hop was just the guy who lost to Roy and was the third bastard child behind Roy and James toney. Even if they weren't in the same division anymore the names left and b hop remained and did his thing without recognition Ggg has his oscar in Canelo and his roy jones in Ward. Ward was probably never going to happen but I wish they would have called their bluff more, ya know? No bad example he had: Glen Johnson , John David Jackson ; Keith Holmes ( world champions) and was on the warpath with over a dozen defenses -- I just didn't start watching boxing a few years ago people knew about X way before so yes the public did know how good he was years before Tito and they most definitely knew him when he got to the Golden boy Delahoya , and you yourself mentioned that he made concessions for Oscar so there goes that argument for lil G.

B-Hop is the man - the problem with this example is that Bernard Hopkins had a good list of names on his way to being undisputed. B Hop is a good example in that he went a long time with no recognition. We all say he got better with age but did he? He was always so good but nobody cared until Tito and Oscar foolishly fought him. Even B hop conceded some to fight Oscar. I'd say it paid off in a big way. To the "casual" B hop was just the guy who lost to Roy and was the third bastard child behind Roy and James toney. Even if they weren't in the same division anymore the names left and b hop remained and did his thing without recognition Ggg has his oscar in Canelo and his roy jones in Ward. Ward was probably never going to happen but I wish they would have called their bluff more, ya know?

I can't believe we live in a time where some boxing fans don't even care about being undisputed champion. We've always complained there are too many champions etc, well, unifying is the ultimate answer. And some people actually criticize Golovkin for wanting that? I always thought that was the goal, to show you alone are champion and the best. http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40847000/jpg/_40847033_hopkinsbelts270.jpg B-Hop is the man - the problem with this example is that Bernard Hopkins had a good list of names on his way to being undisputed.

Best answer ever. I understand exactly what your thought pattern on him devaluing the belts. However I cannot hold him at fault for that. Geale and Canelo both vacated instead of fighting him (even though he fought Geale down the line) that isn't on him. You're right. It isn't GGG's fault but thats the way the fight game is as a business. Sure, Jacobs and BJS can make more money fighting GGG...or a little less but have winable fights. Once they lose to GGG the pay will decrease. One slightly better payday against GGG and a big dropoff in prestige and pay immediately after vs a steady stream of slightly less paydays which adds up to more after 2 fights. Ggg right now is at best a cashout fight for them. They wont do it unless they have to. Sucks but thats what happens when you look like a prime tyson (not literally but you get the meaning) and sell like an early bhop. Team GGG hasnt put down for their fighter and made big fights even at a disadvantage. It's the right thing to do by your fighter..morally. But the fight game isn't fair and you have to take everything by force. Canelo for example is bigger than the titles. Hundreds of thousands will pay to watch him fight a subpar welter. Think they care if he has the 160 belt? Now everyone is just going to look at GGG and wonder who the hell (insert randon mandatories) that is? Ggg needs these other guys and he finds himself in the unfortunate spot of not being needed. He's going to have to make himself easily accesible. Fight Lara at 58 even if Lara wants 160. Show guys that if they want it, he'll meet you halfway. Don't start rejecting 155 while saying you'd make 154 for a big fight...meanwhile 155 is the biggest fight he'll EVER have. Lets not fool ourselves.. Canelo would be his signature win forever because with Ward gone he has to basically hope someone does big things at 68 or 54 and gives him a shot..and this would take years for a Charlo or Zurdo or someone to make a big name of themselves. I feel bad for GGG as a fighter but his team has dug themselves into this.

thing is you can never have all the titles,,the WBA will make a regular title..the WBC will make a regular and a interim champ..its just a joke these days WBA is unifying and doing away with multiple titles. WBC just did the same with Canelo vacating...