Canelo fans, can you explain why he won't fight Golovkin?

Martin Murray (weight difference now makes that unrealistic) vs Erislandy Lara at 160, from a purely boxing geek perspective, would've been an interesting fight to watch. With Murray not having gigantic punching power, I'm not sure if he'd be able to hit Lara hard enough and with enough variety to get Lara to set his feet; Lara's slick boxing carries the fight. Trivial wisdom is that boxing has three pure archetypes: KO puncher, boxer-mover and pressure swarmer. And they are like rock-paper-scissors. Mover outpoints KO puncher, puncher KOs pressure swarmer, because he is not hard to find, swarmer wears down the mover. Of course real fighters are always combinations of these archetypes in various proportions. IMO Murray is closer to the pressure fighter, while Lara - to boxer-mover. Therefore stylistically he is at disadvantage against Murray. He may not hit Lara harder and with variety of say GGG. But he will throw more than Lara. And I think he will outpoint Lara.

Maybe apples shall be compared to apples? In Alvarez's PPV debut he was an opponent for Floyd. In Manny's PPV debut he was an opponent for Barrera. You're comparing these numbers with GGG debut, where he was "A-side" against little known Lemieux... Pacquiao didn't have the three years of hype on HBO heading into his PPV debut (Alvarez basically came to the US as a big deal, and he's been involved in televised support capacity for enough PPVs to make the argument less clear to make); Golovkin did. Lemieux definitely didn't help things, but to act as if Golovkin didn't have any advantages to help offset the advantages that Pacquiao had in his debut is a bit much. Maybe not both Red Deliciouses(sp), but the apples are similar enough.

Arguably Martin Murray. Just like Lara was robbed in a title fight. Only twice. Martin Murray (weight difference now makes that unrealistic) vs Erislandy Lara at 160, from a purely boxing geek perspective, would've been an interesting fight to watch. With Murray not having gigantic punching power, I'm not sure if he'd be able to hit Lara hard enough and with enough variety to get Lara to set his feet; Lara's slick boxing carries the fight.

Golovkin will gladly take the belt unless the WBC mandates a fight between 2 MW's for it. But whats even better, surrending the belt will show to a TEE that Canelo is afraid of fighting GGG and believe me when I tell you, that will get plenty of backlash from the hardcore mexican boxing fans. If GGG didnt exist that Caneloweight (155lbs) wouldnt either. ^^^lol If Golovkin didn't exist, what would be the pull for Alvarez to even go to middleweight? Canelo, after the Floyd fight, was chasing Miguel Cotto; regardless of what the belts were doing, if Cotto was at a weight, Canelo would also be at that weight. When has Canelo ever called out, or pondered fighting, any actual middleweight fighter? 12 fights since moving to junior middleweight, Alvarez has stuck with targeting other junior middleweights (sans Floyd, Josesito Lopez, and Khan, who were welters that came up); that is unlikely to change, whether Golovkin existed or didn't.

Canelo should do just that and fight GGG Canelo's fighting at 155, until he and his camp feel a move to 160 is best for him. if that's piss in your corn flakes, so be it.

I agree that GGG is not an attraction on standalone basis, at least not at a PPV level, you need the right dance partner And thats not to say Canelo wouldnt do **** numbers either against a guy like Gabe Rosado on PPV. He had to bring a WW up to his fantasy division because Khans bring in a good amount of money. What I'm getting at Canelo for is the comments he made about GGG "not earning his shot" or the fight not being worth the risk in terms of business. Your comparing Pacquiaos and Canelos PPV debuts to Golovkins?? Are you on drugs? Your math is on point with these numbers your throwing out there but your boxing logic is way off. These guys made their PPV debuts as the B sides and the card was carried by Mayweather and Morales. Not to mention, Pacquiao was facing alot of household Mexican warriors before he fought Morales. Golovkin was asked to carry the card with it being his first PPV and facing a no name in Lemieux. You cant compare that s***. At this point, I'm arguing the degree to which, beyond TV, Gennady Golovkin is an attraction to begin with; from here on in, outside of staging a fight for Texas Stadium, K2 should stage whatever the building they run's full capacity if Golovkin really is that star. (tangential to the topic, Andre Ward fights out of Oracle Arena and he's always staged building with the entire lower bowl up for sale (sans a stands section behind the media); he's not selling out the building yet, but he's priced things competitive to every big non-Vegas blockbuster and you can see how the ticket movement has gone from his debut event at the building against Edison Miranda to now). Golovkin was asked to carry the card on his own, but that was after 8 HBO World Championship Boxing broadcasts and HBO spending just short of 3 years drilling to their audience how much of a wrecking machine and budding star that Golovkin was. After all of that effort/hype/work, Golovkin only being able to deliver 100k paying homes is supposed to be okay? not sure that holds up.

Golovkin-Lemieux was selling tickets for as low as $10 (apparently on secondary market sites like StubHub). Not sure why reality keeps getting ignored but, on top of the staged 12k seats at the Forum (the ticket prices slip my mind at the moment but I want to say they were priced $30 to $300), K2 sold an extra 4k $30 tickets without even staging the venue for The Forum's maximum capacity of 17,500 seats. Golovkin-Wade, guessing at the venue breakdown, likely ended up selling 7k tickets at $30. People seem to enjoy the can crushing enough to tune in on regular HBO, but no one is actually putting real money behind Golovkin, regardless of how hard folks want to spin in. You stage the full Forum (17,500 seats) at the 400/250/150/100/50/30 price points (not sure what the actual numbers were), Golovkin doesn't sell out the Forum. Saul Alvarez did 325k PPV buys on his debut PPV because 1)he arrived in the US for the Matthew fight in 2011 already a star in his native Mexico, 2)he'd already headlined is own US shows and did great business; Staples Center, MGM Grand and Alamodome, 3)had started to be seen as a legit fighter after the Trout fight,and 4)he picked up the rub from the exposure that he picked up being on Floyd's cards and fighting Floyd. After taking the chances that needed to be taken and developing a star, Alvarez's debut PPV did $2.5m at the gate 325k PPV buys ($50 a pop, and you're talking about the US TV putting $8m into the pot). Golovkin's fought on HBO Championship Boxing 9 times and did terrible business. Manny Pacquiao's debut PPV, according to Wikipedia, did over 340k PPV buys and you can't say that his grasp of English was better than Golovkin's is; how many times do you think he had to fight on HBO to goose up that number? Maybe apples shall be compared to apples? In Alvarez's PPV debut he was an opponent for Floyd. In Manny's PPV debut he was an opponent for Barrera. You're comparing these numbers with GGG debut, where he was "A-side" against little known Lemieux...

Lara is a legit fighter and, if the fight were made, would be the best fighter that Golovkin has ever stepped into the ring with as a professional. Try to minimize the man all you want, who on Golovkin's resume is earnestly a better fighter than Erislandy Lara? If Golovkin steps in the ring and just ragdolls Lara, he would've ragdolled a guy who (having walked into the ring for fights near 170) was actually a legit fighter for once. Arguably Martin Murray. Just like Lara was robbed in a title fight. Only twice.

Canelo has made it absolutely that he's not taking any fights above 155lbs, anytime soon. If Golovkin and his camp are happy with being handed another title belt, so be it. Golovkin will gladly take the belt unless the WBC mandates a fight between 2 MW's for it. But whats even better, surrending the belt will show to a TEE that Canelo is afraid of fighting GGG and believe me when I tell you, that will get plenty of backlash from the hardcore mexican boxing fans. If GGG didnt exist that Caneloweight (155lbs) wouldnt either.

Fight Erislandy Lara, instead of wasting everyone's time with Willie Monroe Jr. Agree to fight Andre Ward, when the offer actually came forward. Mention guys like Daniel Jacobs and Peter Quillin by name, rather than chasing welterweights. Fight literally anyone at 168lbs (the weight where nearly every top amateur 165 fighter has ended up competing at, before typically moving on at some point) Golovkin and his camp have never seemed to even consider putting Golovkin into a situation where he was even taking a 'kinda' risk in a fight; to try and play 'woe is me' on his behalf is silly. Floyd Mayweather Jr was 17-0 when he went after 130lb king Genaro Hernandez. Saul Alvarez, against the advise of basically everyone in his circle, fought Erislandy Lara and Austin Trout because those were the fights that he wanted. Oscar De La Hoya, after basically capping out as a solid 154lber (starting off the championship run at 130), gambled at fighting at 160lbs. Bernard Hopkins, after spending his entire career at 160lbs, went up 15 pounds to fight Antonio Tarver. In instance after instance, most fighters reached a point where the outcome wasn't always guaranteed, but they were willing to take that leap. Golovkin doesn't even feign interest in trying; he knows that his age is getting up there, so he's looking for at least one big cashout before risking anything. Canelo should do just that and fight GGG

Of course he was just kidding. Only because it's ward. But GGG says something 3 years ago and idiots hold him to it right now He was being sarcastic man lol

Ward was just joking about Floyd. He was probably also joking about beating Klitschko and becoming HW champ by 31, he's a comedian. See his offer to Ggg last summer, comedy gold Of course he was just kidding. Only because it's ward. But GGG says something 3 years ago and idiots hold him to it right now

Golovkin-Lemieux was selling tickets for as low as $10 (apparently on secondary market sites like StubHub). Not sure why reality keeps getting ignored but, on top of the staged 12k seats at the Forum (the ticket prices slip my mind at the moment but I want to say they were priced $30 to $300), K2 sold an extra 4k $30 tickets without even staging the venue for The Forum's maximum capacity of 17,500 seats. Golovkin-Wade, guessing at the venue breakdown, likely ended up selling 7k tickets at $30. People seem to enjoy the can crushing enough to tune in on regular HBO, but no one is actually putting real money behind Golovkin, regardless of how hard folks want to spin in. You stage the full Forum (17,500 seats) at the 400/250/150/100/50/30 price points (not sure what the actual numbers were), Golovkin doesn't sell out the Forum. Saul Alvarez did 325k PPV buys on his debut PPV because 1)he arrived in the US for the Matthew fight in 2011 already a star in his native Mexico, 2)he'd already headlined is own US shows and did great business; Staples Center, MGM Grand and Alamodome, 3)had started to be seen as a legit fighter after the Trout fight,and 4)he picked up the rub from the exposure that he picked up being on Floyd's cards and fighting Floyd. After taking the chances that needed to be taken and developing a star, Alvarez's debut PPV did $2.5m at the gate 325k PPV buys ($50 a pop, and you're talking about the US TV putting $8m into the pot). Golovkin's fought on HBO Championship Boxing 9 times and did terrible business. Manny Pacquiao's debut PPV, according to Wikipedia, did over 340k PPV buys and you can't say that his grasp of English was better than Golovkin's is; how many times do you think he had to fight on HBO to goose up that number? I agree that GGG is not an attraction on standalone basis, at least not at a PPV level, you need the right dance partner And thats not to say Canelo wouldnt do **** numbers either against a guy like Gabe Rosado on PPV. He had to bring a WW up to his fantasy division because Khans bring in a good amount of money. What I'm getting at Canelo for is the comments he made about GGG "not earning his shot" or the fight not being worth the risk in terms of business. Your comparing Pacquiaos and Canelos PPV debuts to Golovkins?? Are you on drugs? Your math is on point with these numbers your throwing out there but your boxing logic is way off. These guys made their PPV debuts as the B sides and the card was carried by Mayweather and Morales. Not to mention, Pacquiao was facing alot of household Mexican warriors before he fought Morales. Golovkin was asked to carry the card with it being his first PPV and facing a no name in Lemieux. You cant compare that s***.

Yeah... Lara - guy wants 3+mil to fight Golovkin. Why would anyone entertain that at all? Since Golovkin is the clear A-side, why doesn't the same logic then apply to Lara that you're trying to apply to Golovkin in regards to Canelo? (Rhetorical question, you just have double standards) You're the guy worried about K2's pockets, but if I were K2 I'd ignore that too because you're just not being serious about wanting a fight, you're just name dropping. So please get over it already. Find ONE post where I defend the Monroe fight. FIND ONE. Again, I won't wait. Ok, we're agreed that all the tickets were sold for his last event. Congrats for coming around. You're the one looking for nitpicky stuff to "disprove" Golovkin's popularity. Guy sold 12k tickets for fighting a ****ing bum. He's popular, he brings money, better start getting used to it. So Golovkin can't unify the belts then move up? Ward also would have fought Mayweather. Why aren't you mad at him? Oh right, them double standards again. Bonus: Here's the link to where Ward says he'd drop to 160 for Mayweather Oh, so they have tried to make big name fights, but name fighters ducked? Cool, thanks for agreeing. (Also check post about who declined who first, I did say to not conveniently ignore it but.....) Ward was just joking about Floyd. He was probably also joking about beating Klitschko and becoming HW champ by 31, he's a comedian. See his offer to Ggg last summer, comedy gold

The Forum seats 17,500 for boxing; outside of the Lemieux fight in NYC, Golovkin has never sold that many tickets ever. Taking a building that actually seats 17,500, staging it for 12k seats, and calling that a "sellout" is ****ing stupid; if you can't grasp that, so be it. Lara raised his hand for the fight, and all K2 did was act as if he didn't even exist, lol; Abel "FN" Sanchez literally went to the boxing press, argue that ****ing Willie Monroe Jr was a bigger name than Erislandy Lara, and clowns like you defended that bull****. Hagler fought at MW for his career because he was bent on being the best middleweight fighter that ever put on gloves. If that was Golovkin's intent, he should've said that and checked anyone in his camp that said different, rather than, as he did less then two weeks ago, talk about wanting to unify all of the middleweight titles in one breath, yet being absolutely giddy about the notion of going down weight to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. Golovkin only started to get ridicule when Abel Sanchez ran his mouth about Golovkin whooping every fighter 154-168, Golovkin stood by, with that stupid grin, and let fester, K2 chased down fights at 168 against Chavez Jr and Carl Froch, yet turned utter punks once Andre Ward said he wanted to fight. lol Yeah... Lara - guy wants 3+mil to fight Golovkin. Why would anyone entertain that at all? Since Golovkin is the clear A-side, why doesn't the same logic then apply to Lara that you're trying to apply to Golovkin in regards to Canelo? (Rhetorical question, you just have double standards) You're the guy worried about K2's pockets, but if I were K2 I'd ignore that too because you're just not being serious about wanting a fight, you're just name dropping. So please get over it already. Find ONE post where I defend the Monroe fight. FIND ONE. Again, I won't wait. Ok, we're agreed that all the tickets were sold for his last event. Congrats for coming around. You're the one looking for nitpicky stuff to "disprove" Golovkin's popularity. Guy sold 12k tickets for fighting a ****ing bum. He's popular, he brings money, better start getting used to it. So Golovkin can't unify the belts then move up? Ward also would have fought Mayweather. Why aren't you mad at him? Oh right, them double standards again. Bonus: Here's the link to where Ward says he'd drop to 160 for Mayweather Oh, so they have tried to make big name fights, but name fighters ducked? Cool, thanks for agreeing. (Also check post about who declined who first, I did say to not conveniently ignore it but.....)

And you have the gall to say that "facts get ignored" when you don't have exact figures for breakdowns? Did Golovkin sell out the Forum? Yes? Ok, that kind of makes it a fact. By definition. I get that you're worried about K2's pocket (how benevolent of you, btw) but they don't seem worried putting GGG in 3-4 times a year. Onto the quoted thing above. Barrera had the balls to fight Pacquiao prior to him making his PPV debut. An ATG had the balls to step up to Pacquiao. Name one current "name" that even wants to step into the ring with GGG. Ward refused to fight GGG BEFORE(can't stress this enough) GGG refused Ward. #fact Look it up, and remember not to conveniently ignore it Lara is only a name to people with sleep deprivation, which I presume you have. Would Lara be the best name in his resume you say? Well, considering GGG is the A-Side (which is the bull**** you're using to excuse Canelo), tweet Lara (I mean DeCubas) to make some concessions and not price themselves out of the fight. Accept short money and beat GGG, dare to be great Lara! GGG easy work! Otherwise, shut the **** up about Lara already, everyone with an IQ above 25 can tell Lara is just fronting. Since you won't be able to come up with a name that wants GGG (Cotto, Martinez, Froch, Chavez Jr ducked him hard) I won't wait. Protip: When having arguments and you're ridiculing people for not using facts, and then go onto use misinformation and presenting as "fact" - it kind of makes you look ****ing stupid. Plus you're an *******. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The worst thing about this is that I like Canelo, and then he pulls off chicken **** like this. **** him, I'm not buying this fight. Second worst thing is that we have dumb****s like you defending this **** because you're more worried about "A-side bidness" over wanting to see the god damn lineal MW champion defend his championship against the best MW. How ****ing dare we boxing fans want to see the best fighters in a division fight each other. And before you hit me with your "ATG fighters dared to move up" bull**** -- How many weight classes did Hagler campaign his entire career? One? Oh he must not be ATG in your eyes then. I suggest you follow curling, it might be a "sport" more to your speed. The Forum seats 17,500 for boxing; outside of the Lemieux fight in NYC, Golovkin has never sold that many tickets ever. Taking a building that actually seats 17,500, staging it for 12k seats, and calling that a "sellout" is ****ing stupid; if you can't grasp that, so be it. Lara raised his hand for the fight, and all K2 did was act as if he didn't even exist, lol; Abel "FN" Sanchez literally went to the boxing press, argue that ****ing Willie Monroe Jr was a bigger name than Erislandy Lara, and clowns like you defended that bull****. Hagler fought at MW for his career because he was bent on being the best middleweight fighter that ever put on gloves. If that was Golovkin's intent, he should've said that and checked anyone in his camp that said different, rather than, as he did less then two weeks ago, talk about wanting to unify all of the middleweight titles in one breath, yet being absolutely giddy about the notion of going down weight to fight Floyd Mayweather Jr. Golovkin only started to get ridicule when Abel Sanchez ran his mouth about Golovkin whooping every fighter 154-168, Golovkin stood by, with that stupid grin, and let fester, K2 chased down fights at 168 against Chavez Jr and Carl Froch, yet turned utter punks once Andre Ward said he wanted to fight. lol

Leo Santa Cruz is a bigger draw in SoCal than Golovkin in SoCal, and Deontay Wilder is on the verge of being a far bigger star in NYC than Golovkin is in NYC. You add that Danny Garcia is bubbling as a marquee fighter, and I'd watch what I was writing. Whatever dumba$$. Santa Cruz can't draw 16k+ to the forum vs a no name. On the verge, bubbling, so these guys are lesser draws than Ggg EVERYWHERE. Maybe not Tuscaloosa

Golovkin's fought on HBO Championship Boxing 9 times and did terrible business. Manny Pacquiao's debut PPV, according to Wikipedia, did over 340k PPV buys and you can't say that his grasp of English was better than Golovkin's is; how many times do you think he had to fight on HBO to goose up that number? And you have the gall to say that "facts get ignored" when you don't have exact figures for breakdowns? Did Golovkin sell out the Forum? Yes? Ok, that kind of makes it a fact. By definition. I get that you're worried about K2's pocket (how benevolent of you, btw) but they don't seem worried putting GGG in 3-4 times a year. Onto the quoted thing above. Barrera had the balls to fight Pacquiao prior to him making his PPV debut. An ATG had the balls to step up to Pacquiao. Name one current "name" that even wants to step into the ring with GGG. Ward refused to fight GGG BEFORE(can't stress this enough) GGG refused Ward. #fact Look it up, and remember not to conveniently ignore it Lara is only a name to people with sleep deprivation, which I presume you have. Would Lara be the best name in his resume you say? Well, considering GGG is the A-Side (which is the bull**** you're using to excuse Canelo), tweet Lara (I mean DeCubas) to make some concessions and not price themselves out of the fight. Accept short money and beat GGG, dare to be great Lara! GGG easy work! Otherwise, shut the **** up about Lara already, everyone with an IQ above 25 can tell Lara is just fronting. Since you won't be able to come up with a name that wants GGG (Cotto, Martinez, Froch, Chavez Jr ducked him hard) I won't wait. Protip: When having arguments and you're ridiculing people for not using facts, and then go onto use misinformation and presenting as "fact" - it kind of makes you look ****ing stupid. Plus you're an *******. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The worst thing about this is that I like Canelo, and then he pulls off chicken **** like this. **** him, I'm not buying this fight. Second worst thing is that we have dumb****s like you defending this **** because you're more worried about "A-side bidness" over wanting to see the god damn lineal MW champion defend his championship against the best MW. How ****ing dare we boxing fans want to see the best fighters in a division fight each other. And before you hit me with your "ATG fighters dared to move up" bull**** -- How many weight classes did Hagler campaign his entire career? One? Oh he must not be ATG in your eyes then. I suggest you follow curling, it might be a "sport" more to your speed.

OK cretin, we get it. Ggg is not as big a star as Canelo, nor will be unless he gets Canelo in the ring, thereby ending his career Vargas style. Doesn't matter, he obviously can't be touched by anyone sub SMw ( or higher) and is a bigger draw than anyone on Pbc despite all odds Leo Santa Cruz is a bigger draw in SoCal than Golovkin in SoCal, and Deontay Wilder is on the verge of being a far bigger star in NYC than Golovkin is in NYC. You add that Danny Garcia is bubbling as a marquee fighter, and I'd watch what I was writing.

This is a dumb question. It's pretty simple, Canelo is barely going on one defense for his title. How many times has Golovkin made 154 pounders go up to defend his belt? How many bums did Golovkin defend his title with before defending it against David Lemiux? After fighting all these bums and not getting decent fights how come Golovkin didn't move to 168 to create opportunities? What did fighters like Bradley, Pacquiao, Mayweather, and Dela Hoya do when there weren't any names left to fight in their division? They moved up! Why hasn't Golovkin done that instead of fighting these fragile contenders? He's gotta unify the belts first, Wbc next. Looks like that comes via strippage, as cowardly Canelo forfeits