PBC has TONS of money in the bank

PBS is destinied to die because of Haymon's attitude to boxing. PBC mainly consist of average-leveled black fighters, who fight once a year and have no ambitions besides "give me right money". These guys fight boring fights once a year and have no sports ego. So there is nothing in PBC to excite a boxing viewer for a long time. And look at HBO. Thay have Kovalev, Ward, Lomachenko, Crawford - these are very skilled guys with SPORTS ambitions (not only financial). These guys want fight often and with good opposition. You mention fighters who fight once a year and "give me right money", then applaud HBO for having Ward LOL

I can understand this, but I think the bigger picture is it shows how far boxing has fallen too that HBO isn't throwing the money it used to into boxing. I mean the hard truth all these guys dogging or praising these various groups like HBO, PBC, GBP, Showtime & TR are ignoring is its not like anyone is exactly killing it in the boxing business these days. Sure there are certain events that are big & show what boxing is capable of still, but these events are becoming fewer & further apart. Its not a HBO problem, its not a PBC problem or anyone elses problem, its a boxing problem. Yes I agree, the ammount of talent in boxing is decreasing. And that's the reason of falling of boxing.

Isn't it hilarious that so many media clowns were speculating that PBC spent over $400 million in less than a year based on a stupid Reddit post. Now this new lawsuit against W&R states that PBC was backed with not $500 million but $925 million! The writing is on the wall, PBC is just getting started. HBO Boxing is fading and will fade at an alarming pace with so many sub-par PPV events and mismatches. PBS is destinied to die because of Haymon's attitude to boxing. PBC mainly consist of average-leveled black fighters, who fight once a year and have no ambitions besides "give me right money". These guys fight boring fights once a year and have no sports ego. So there is nothing in PBC to excite a boxing viewer for a long time. And look at HBO. Thay have Kovalev, Ward, Lomachenko, Crawford - these are very skilled guys with SPORTS ambitions (not only financial). These guys want fight often and with good opposition.

You're going way further down the rabbit hole than was my intention with this whole discussion lol. There is no doubt HBO boxing has needed to change as they gotten less money over the years, but I don't think they've done an awful job with what they have. I certainly don't think their investment in boxing has been a bad or improper investment. They've had less money in the last few years then they've probably ever had & they've parlayed that into the P4P top ten basically. HBO does an amazing job at picking talent, promoting that talent & controlling the narrative of their fighters for maximum effect. I've got a habit of doing that, tbf. Still, tbh, the whole p4p top 10 on HBO point, to me, is a fleeting one; Kovalev-Ward is booked for November, Ward owes HBO no fights beyond that and could walk, and a lot of step-up fights are already in the cue. Thurman-Porter for June, LSC-Frampton for July, Wilder-Povetkin in May, Fury-Klitschko II in July, among other fights (with prospects like Errol Spence Jr on the cusp of getting fights that'll get them to the fringes). Come the close of 2016, that list is going to look markedly different imo.

"Investors in the Waddell & Reed fund bankrolling PBC are suing Waddell & Reed for $925 million." OLATHE, Kan. (CN) — Kansas-based business trusts let a portfolio manager spend $925 million on a "potentially criminal" start-up pro boxing company rather than the stable investments they advertised, shareholders claim in court. Saket Kapor and two others sued Ivy Investment Management Co. and Waddell & Reed Investment Co. on April 18 in Johnson County Court. They also sued 16 directors of the trusts — but not Ryan Caldwell, the portfolio manager they accuse of spending the money for his own intended benefit. Ivy Investment and Waddell & Reed are both Delaware business trusts based in Overland Park, Kan. Kapor, Peter Brockett and Hieu Phan filed the lawsuit as a shareholder derivative complaint. Beginning in April 2013, the plaintiffs say, the trustees let Ryan Caldwell, one of the two portfolio managers of Ivy Asset Strategy Fund and the Waddell & Reed Asset Strategy Fund, spend approximately $925 million on "a start-up and potentially criminal" professional boxing promotion company. "These purchases had no economic justification, but rather were motivated by Caldwell's personal interest and benefit," the complaint states. The plaintiffs claim Caldwell knew the companies faced hundreds of millions in short-term losses, but pledged financial support from the funds to entrepreneur Alan Haymon, who is not a party to the case. "This private stock investment violated the stated terms of the Prospectuses for the Funds, which describe an investment strategy that 'primarily focuses on securities issued by large capitalization companies,' that 'can offer a high probability of return or, alternatively, can provide a high degree of relative safety in uncertain times, with Strong cash flow streams: and 'high sustainable cash flow,'" the complaint states. "Investing nearly a billion dollars of private securities in a start-up boxing promotion company, as high-risk a venture as one could imagine, meets none of these criteria." The plaintiffs say Caldwell's actions were inappropriate because as a fund manager he should have been making objective investment decisions. In June 2014, the plaintiffs say, Caldwell resigned from the funds to join one of Haymon's companies. They question whether he actually resigned, or was fired by the trustees for making the investments, and whether he had a quid pro quo agreement with Haymon's company. "In either case, the trustees have not acted properly," the complaint states. Haymon's activities have been the subject of several lawsuits recently, according to the complaint. The Courthouse News database shows Haymon as a defendant in four lawsuits since 2013, all involving pro boxing, and another lawsuit in 2005, also involving boxing. An independent association of State Boxing Commissioners asked the Justice Department to investigate Haymon's business practices, the plaintiffs say. They say the defendants kept them in the dark. "The Funds made no meaningful disclosure about their investment in this company, or how this investment was different from, or carried risks that were different from, the disclosed strategies in the Prospectuses," the complaint states. "The Funds also did not disclose Caldwell's personal relationship with Haymon or how that relationship influenced the decision to invest in Haymon's company — or how such a relationship might present a conflict of interest." The plaintiffs say that whether the defendants knew that Caldwell was investing nearly a billion dollars "into a high-risk start-up that was designed to violate antitrust laws" or not, they should have known the investment was well outside the bounds of the funds' investment strategy. Roger Hoadley, a vice president and director of communications for Ivy Investment and Waddell & Reed Financial said in an email that the underlying facts of the new lawsuit are similar to two others that were dismissed last year. He said that while the claims are different, they all relate to a single investment in the company's Asset Strategy Funds that represents less than 1 percent of its holdings. "The suit includes significant factual errors and language that brings question to its overall merit," Hoadley said in the statement. "Lawsuits such as this often arise when the value of a fund has declined. We are continuing to evaluate the pleadings and case strategy and will respond appropriately. Regardless, our commitment to managing fund investors' money and striving to deliver strong results remains unchanged." Caldwell started a new mutual fund company called Chiron Investment Management, which is a partnership with three former bankers from Goldman Sachs, according to a July 2015 article by The Wall Street Journal. Under Caldwell's watch, The Ivy Asset Strategy Fund delivered average returns of 10 percent over the past decade — third-best among comparable managers, according to the Journal. Waddell & Reed announced recently that it would lay off 10 percent of its full-time employees, as its first quarter profits this year fell by 44 percent, the Kansas City Star reported. The plaintiffs seek $925 million in restitution to the funds. They are represented by John Jackson Miller with Swanson Midgley, in Kansas City, Mo. Haymon was named as a defendant in two antitrust complaints in Los Angeles Federal Court in 2015; a 2014 contract complaint in Miami-Dade County; a 2013 summons and complaint in Essex County Superior Court, Newark; and a 2005 contract complaint in Clark County, Las Vegas. Saket Kapor, from the fact that he has literally no online presence (even the local one-lawyer law practice, if legit, has a bare-bones site to direct people too), is an ambulance chaser in the worse way. Beyond that, Waddell &Reed manage at least $40b, largely through mutual funds in a market where broad sectors are getting hit hard. Try going beyond the headline when you try and make a statement.

Yea like I said there are events in boxing that shows what boxing is capable of, but the rest of the time things are more mundane then arguably they've ever been for most fans. I mean boxing is pretty much a 2 events per year sport. Cinco De Mayo & Mexican Independence day for many fans. And idk who HBO's getting out of the way of. PBC isn't doing as well as most think they could be & are making amateur mistakes guys following boxing for a year can see are issues. Showtime showed only a handful of events last year & who knows if they will go on hiatus again after this slew of shows they have planned to maintain any sort of momentum. It is a continuing of a divided sport, no sport flourishes when there are two competing brands for the top. So one needs to swallow the other and the divide allows for other players to push their minority interests rather than the interest of the great whole. Like I said PBC could do better with things but honestly no matter what they did there would be some issues they would need to improve upon, no company starts up off the rip as perfect, it needs to be built up. I think a lot issues are also over stated, especially the match-making one because I have watched plenty of good fights on PBC or Haymon Showtime cards.

Hmmm, no. HBO's policy has always been to have a diversity of programming. Boxing in it's current capacity is a small budget investment to them, so it's not an issue that they're looking to get rid of it. It still does decent ratings for them (unlike Showtime) and there's always the potential for another mega star to come along. Ahahahahahahahaha! Just... Ahahahahahaha! Always potential for another mega star to come along. What is this... Alice in Wonderland? Ahahahahaha! This is too easy.

That's the entire point dumbshet. HBO is going to trash their shiety boxing program to focus on original series that make huge money. Hmmm, no. HBO's policy has always been to have a diversity of programming. Boxing in it's current capacity is a small budget investment to them, so it's not an issue that they're looking to get rid of it. It still does decent ratings for them (unlike Showtime) and there's always the potential for another mega star to come along.

Worry about Haymon's PBC doe. The lawsuits are all over the place. HBO got Game of Thrones and Bill Maher's Real Time, which most likely makes HBO good money than their boxing department. That's the entire point dumbshet. HBO is going to trash their shiety boxing program to focus on original series that make huge money.

Oh yeah... since we've seen nothing but budget increases on HBO boxing since 1998. Yeah. People here are soooooo smart. Lol Worry about Haymon's PBC doe. The lawsuits are all over the place. HBO got Game of Thrones and Bill Maher's Real Time, which most likely makes HBO good money than their boxing department.

Waiting for and hoping that HBO would close its boxing department is like trying to stop the rooster from crowing every morning. What an idiot. :haha: Good luck doe. Oh yeah... since we've seen nothing but budget increases on HBO boxing since 1998. Yeah. People here are soooooo smart. Lol

Waiting for and hoping that HBO would close its boxing department is like trying to stop the rooster from crowing every morning. What an idiot. :haha: Good luck doe.

Kind of but boxing just had it's biggest event ever a year ago and Manny and Floyd have had unprecedented success for smaller guys basically printing money. HBO was the biggest and when they sneezed everyone else caught a cold, transitioning away from that which Haymon was forced to do (both from HBO directly telling his guys to pound sand and their ever shrinking budget) was always going to be a messy process that effected the whole sport in the US. HBO hanging on by their fingernails is not helping the process either because that is just prolonging all this pain. I either want to see them be all the way in or get out of the way and produce another good show with the savings. HBO should just focus on making more Game of Thrones... less boxing. Original series didn't even begin to explode $$$ wise in 1999 when the HBO boxing budget was $100 million.

I can understand this, but I think the bigger picture is it shows how far boxing has fallen too that HBO isn't throwing the money it used to into boxing. I mean the hard truth all these guys dogging or praising these various groups like HBO, PBC, GBP, Showtime & TR are ignoring is its not like anyone is exactly killing it in the boxing business these days. Sure there are certain events that are big & show what boxing is capable of still, but these events are becoming fewer & further apart. Its not a HBO problem, its not a PBC problem or anyone elses problem, its a boxing problem. Kind of but boxing just had it's biggest event ever a year ago and Manny and Floyd have had unprecedented success for smaller guys basically printing money. HBO was the biggest and when they sneezed everyone else caught a cold, transitioning away from that which Haymon was forced to do (both from HBO directly telling his guys to pound sand and their ever shrinking budget) was always going to be a messy process that effected the whole sport in the US. HBO hanging on by their fingernails is not helping the process either because that is just prolonging all this pain. I either want to see them be all the way in or get out of the way and produce another good show with the savings.

That's why you should stop supporting mismatches. They have the potential of sending the Salka fighter to the hospital and leave him comatose. They're extremely dangerous. Mismatches don't benefit the investors, they don't benefit the fans. They only benefit the overpaid Haymon fighter. Watch how Quillin almost killed Zerafa on Youtube. Go ahead. One of these days Haymon would even get sued for these dangerous mismatches. Good point. I don't think Haymon would be liable for that though. That would probably fall on the commission like when the commission didn't sanction Ward's fight last year.

No the PBC won't prevent fighters from getting brain damaged. That was just an example of me saying how I care for their well being. Too many boxers end up in ****ty conditions when they're done and the promoters never seem to care. And the PBC is most likely looking for an UFC model. Fight on CBC/NBC/Fox every month and then a ppv a few times a year. That's not ideal, but it's better imo than just having those fights be on subscription TV. I like being able to call my friends and tell them to turn it to channel 4. Or being able to go to a bar and watch Garcia and Guerrero go to war. Would a UFC model actually be good for fighters though? Certainly financially the UFC doesn't seem to be better for their big stars versus the big stars in boxing. I'm not sure having one entity would improve the conditions for fighters, the UFC makes more money off their fighters than any of the current boxing promoters do. In terms of the well-being of fighters that is really more an issue of the regulation and governing of the sport, which of course varies from country to country and indeed US state to US state. Promoters simply work within the legal framework. The truth of the matter is that fighters are as quick to show a lack of loyalty and obligation to managers and promoters as managers and promoters are to them. Is being on HBO or Showtime, in this day and age, really contracting interest in boxing? I suppose I just doubt that that is actually the case. Most people will never be interested in boxing in general, it is simply a few isolated fighters that can capture peoples imagination and you don't necessarily need to have any of their major fights on free-to-air tv to achieve that.

Mismatches are never okay. So when you say you care about fighters' well being, what you really mean is "I only care about Haymon fighters. Could care less about Salka fighters." :pat: :boxing:

Look the guy I quoted talked about how he cares about fighters. How he cares about their well being. Yet he's okay with Haymon mismatches. That's just stoopid. $8,000 for main event fighters. $2,500 for undercarriage fighters. Hahahaha

Yeah... I mean Top Rank and Golden Boy are shelling out HUGE purses for Solo Boxeo and TV Azteca. So huge they range in the $8,000 range hahahaha Look the guy I quoted talked about how he cares about fighters. How he cares about their well being. Yet he's okay with Haymon mismatches. That's just stoopid.

HBO, SHO, PBC, they should never be supported. Wade at least got $500K. Salka got $120K, Zerafa probably got $50K. That's how low Haymon treat Salka fighters, but treat his top fighters too high. Yeah... I mean Top Rank and Golden Boy are shelling out HUGE purses for Solo Boxeo and TV Azteca. So huge they range in the $8,000 range hahahaha