Waddell+Reed's PBC investment has lost 59% of it's value.

Yourfar too stupid to get into any details. 300 million dollars burned, and all I ask is to tell me what they spent it on, and you making every excuse to duck the question. :rofl: :rofl:

It's an immersion tactic. They're trying to make boxing a mainstream sport again and they're trying to make PBC synonymous with boxing. 2 million people watched Canelo fight Kirkland on HBO, the biggest boxing audience on HBO in a decade. Obviously it was aided by being packaged with the Mayweather-Pacquiao replay. But either way, 2 million people watching an HBO fight is a major major huge success. So when 3.4 million watch Thurman vs Guerrero or 2.9 million watch Garcia vs Peterson or 2.3 million watch Broner vs Porter or 2.2 million watch Wilder vs Duhaupas, these fighters are gaining eyeballs beyond what an HBO fighter can. Crawford just fought on HBO and 1 million watched. PBC just completely changes the equation and after THREE YEARS of major major TV exposure, the PBC roster is going to be far more recognizable than what any other group can possibly muster.

Daggum - Haymon needs to keep Showtime happy so non-PBC promoters don't end up with those dates. PBC's plan has many phases and it's going to take five years before fans really figure out what the end game is. Right now Haymon is making sure that HBO/Top Rank/Main Events/Golden Boy are all on an island together. HBO only has so many dates to go around, inevitably, the majority of top prospects are going to sign with Haymon because he's the guy that can get them dates. Over time, this will starve HBO's island and all of the promoters on it. Rath - They invested in Haymon's company. Haymon would be screwing himself. Doesn't make any sense. His investors will make their money longterm from Haymon's managerial fees. Everybody always said a national or international boxing league couldn't work, but Haymon thought of a way to do it that nobody had thought of. There's a lot of intricacy due to the Ali act and other laws. PBC is just the name of a TV series. A TV series owned by a boxing management company. A boxing management company that's been given a sizable investment to buy TV time to increase the star power of their stable so the investors can make their money back when purses increase and Haymon's 15% is worth more. Haymon would just be running himself out of business by screwing his investors here. Deevel - Why buy 30 second commercials when you can buy TWO HOUR commercials?!? i never said these words!

lfc19titles - Your post is very ignorant. PBC guaranteed years of TV on a dozen networks. That money has been spent up front, but they now have years of revenue that will be coming in. So when the first three years are complete, they will not have lost anywhere near 59% of the initial investment (although the investors are willing to lose 100% to launch the brand). There haven't been any unexpected losses. These "sky is falling" posts are from people with no business experience and have no idea what these numbers mean. There will be plenty of returns coming. This is a long process. It just started. The biggest expense was guaranteeing the TV costs up front. That's been paid. Which is why expenses/revenue seems so lopsided initially.

WARPBC!!! Im loving it!! :boxing::boxing:

First time ever have I heard of an investment losing 59 percent of its value with no returns within its first year This is obviously a bomb and heads will ever rolling for this disaster These type of firms invest for years but when they lose 59 percent already they have what 41 left to last 4 years ish A disaster no other to describe it and a silly move investing in al haymon Everyone knows you should never expect to give a man from the streets money and expect to get it back Look at it this way would anyone wet give our Larry an advance here? Hell no you know that fool would be down at kfc morning day and night using it like no tomorrow When an investment losses it's whole value in two years which this will, and you cannot see any returns coming then you can only see one way of this ending

Yes but when you're paying your fighters millions in addition to having to give away tickets to your half packed events with little to no advertisers, how are they suppose to rebound and turn things around? The 2 big fights they have coming up Thurman/Porter and Jacobs/Quillen are said to be taking place on Showtime. How does this help PBC? Please name the PBC fighters who are being paid millions, just as an exercise to get a baseline for how expansive you believe the "millionaire's club" is. Not every show is going to draw massive numbers, but Wilder put 10k into his arena in Birmingham, Thurman put 8k into his arena in Tampa, Mares/Santa Cruz drew 13k to Staples Center in LA, Chicago has been a strong audience for the shows featuring local/Polish fighters, Garcia-Peterson put almost 13k people into Barclays Center, Garcia-Malignaggi and Khan-Algieri were also strong draws in New York, Omar Figueroa Jr sold out his fight in his hometown, "Sargent" Sammy Vasquez Jr drew a strong crowd for his fight in the Pittsburgh area, among other shows. Beyond that, the only folks who are still talking about the "lack of advertisers" probably haven't seen a PBC show since May, lol.

Daggum - Haymon needs to keep Showtime happy so non-PBC promoters don't end up with those dates. PBC's plan has many phases and it's going to take five years before fans really figure out what the end game is. Right now Haymon is making sure that HBO/Top Rank/Main Events/Golden Boy are all on an island together. HBO only has so many dates to go around, inevitably, the majority of top prospects are going to sign with Haymon because he's the guy that can get them dates. Over time, this will starve HBO's island and all of the promoters on it. Rath - They invested in Haymon's company. Haymon would be screwing himself. Doesn't make any sense. His investors will make their money longterm from Haymon's managerial fees. Everybody always said a national or international boxing league couldn't work, but Haymon thought of a way to do it that nobody had thought of. There's a lot of intricacy due to the Ali act and other laws. PBC is just the name of a TV series. A TV series owned by a boxing management company. A boxing management company that's been given a sizable investment to buy TV time to increase the star power of their stable so the investors can make their money back when purses increase and Haymon's 15% is worth more. Haymon would just be running himself out of business by screwing his investors here. Deevel - Why buy 30 second commercials when you can buy TWO HOUR commercials?!?

UfC was still fairly new and exciting. 2 guys going for the kill in a cage?....what bloodthirsty fight fan wouldn't like that? PBC isn't offering anything remotely as exciting. For the most part they're putting on a bunch of cards featuring a bunch of boxers that nobody really knows nor cares about. Even their "stars" aren't household names outside of the diehard fans with the exception of maybe khan and Danny Garcia. It doesn't take a genius to see that PBC is in bad shape. They blew through 60% of a half a billion dollar investment and no way to stop the bleeding in sight. Aside from porter/Thurman and quillen/Jacobs, they're nothing else intriguing in their schedule. Those 2 fights are the best they have to offer yet many casuals don't even know who these guys are. Not to mention, the word is that these fights will be aired on showtime. How does this help build the PBC brand? Haymon/PBC fanboys need to realize that criticism of a bad product isn't hate. It's criticism of a lackluster product. I give praise to Haymon for trying but I don't see how this will succeed. He has over 200 fighters but without a Cotto, Canelo, GGG , kovalev, etc.. They have no big names to draw interest to the brand. Haymon dropped the ball by not using Floyd to be the face of the PBC brand. lol, have you ever actually watched a UFC card? gtfoh. The UFC is arguably the only avenue when a fighter can wrestle for 15 years, barely know how to throw a proper strike (kick/punch/elbow) and then dominate behind the most bore-inducing lay-and-pray strategy ever imagined. Outside of maybe Connor McGregor, who are these UFC fighters who just "throw down"? Without even looking all that hard, Kono-Kameda, Fonfara-Cleverly, Huck-Glowacki, and other fights were far more exciting and engaging than anything that's likely been put forward by the UFC. That "blew through 60% of a half a billion dollar investment" rhetoric, without acknowledging that near all that money was likely spent in securing the next three years of TV and building all of the stages/sets for the PBC presentation, makes you look desperate. Whether or not all of these fights end up on PBC or Showtime, Wilder-Povetkin, Wilder-Klitschko, Stevenson-Fonfara II, Stevenson-Alvarez, Jack-ChavezJr, Degale-Uzcategui, Jacobs-Quillin winner vs Lee/Saunders winner, Jacobs-Quillin winner vs EubankJr/O'Sullivan winner, Charlo-Jackson for the vacant WBC 154 belt, Garcia-Guerrero for the vacant WBC 147 belt, Thurman-Porter vs Garcia-Guerrero winners, Khan-Garcia II, Brook-Khan, Martinez-Salido III, RussellJr/Selby/LSC/Quellar/Mares 126 tournament, Frampton-Quigg series winner vs Julio Ceja for the WBC/IBF/WBA 122 titles, Payano-McDonnell, among the countless step-up fights for the slew of young fighters/prospects in the PBC fold, are already likely for 2016. If "Bronze Bomber" Deontay Wilder proves to be that man (beating Povetkin and beating Klitschko-Fury winner), Haymon instantly has a star bigger than the four names that you mentioned put together. (Though his career will likely mostly be on Showtime/SHOPPV for certain fights, the PBC tie-in allows for the possibility for an annual fight, featuring the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world, in primetime on terrestrial TV).

People really need to let this pan out instead of declaring it dead. It's been like 8 months, and they have airtime already paid for until like 2018 or something :/ Ratings are declining though on top of the 300 million wasted. How can you not see how awful this has been so far? 1. 90% of fights have been shlte, and designed to be squash matches what's more. 2. 300 million gone 3. Awful ratings 4. You have to watch commercials. 5. Commentators are just constantly blowing smoke up the ass of PBC and the awful fights they are commentating on. PBC is absolute garbage.

PBC is just a way for Haymon to keep control of his fighters, with the 500 millions or so he can keep paying them absurd paychecks for 3 years, and if PBC fails he can go back to Showtime or HBO and his PBC fighters will still make bank. Haymon probably gets paid like 30% or so of anything his talent gets, so he is just slowly leeching off the 500 millions he got from his investors. The true genius of Haymon was how he was able to con his investors. Less than that. Its been reported that his take is 15% of his fighters purses.

PBC is just a way for Haymon to keep control of his fighters, with the 500 millions or so he can keep paying them absurd paychecks for 3 years, and if PBC fails he can go back to Showtime or HBO and his PBC fighters will still make bank. Haymon probably gets paid like 30% or so of anything his talent gets, so he is just slowly leeching off the 500 millions he got from his investors. The true genius of Haymon was how he was able to con his investors.

Yes but when you're paying your fighters millions in addition to having to give away tickets to your half packed events with little to no advertisers, how are they suppose to rebound and turn things around? The 2 big fights they have coming up Thurman/Porter and Jacobs/Quillen are said to be taking place on Showtime. How does this help PBC? I don't know. I majored in Computer Science, not business. What I do know is that PBC has a little over 2 years of airtime already paid for, and a stable full of good fighters that could become star attractions. That said, I'm gonna see how it plays out, instead of jumping immediately to the negatives. Long term investments almost always lose money year one, so declaring it dead before it's even made it to 4th quarter just seems premature.

I remember when people were claiming there were no sponsers buying ad time during the fights. Boy that's changed, hasn't it? Oh well, let's see what's next.

People really need to let this pan out instead of declaring it dead. It's been like 8 months, and they have airtime already paid for until like 2018 or something :/ Yes but when you're paying your fighters millions in addition to having to give away tickets to your half packed events with little to no advertisers, how are they suppose to rebound and turn things around? The 2 big fights they have coming up Thurman/Porter and Jacobs/Quillen are said to be taking place on Showtime. How does this help PBC?

Deevel - It's actually a brilliant formula to try and build a casual following because they're on so many channels, so often, that hundreds of thousands of sports fans that don't normally watch boxing are starting to stumble across the shows. No matter what day or time someone prefers to watch TV, they're going to eventually come across PBC while flipping through the channels. It's inevitable. What it's also doing is locking everybody else out. FS1 wanted boxing on Tuesdays, so PBC is giving it to them. Spike wanted boxing on Fridays, so PBC is giving it to them. Other promoters would have ended up on those channels if PBC wasn't willing to run those nights. Again, I can understand fans being confused by a lot of what is going on, but what I can't understand is why so many here would automatically assume Haymon will fail when he's been so incredibly successful for DECADES. That doesn't guarantee success, but a reasonable person would take a wait and see approach, even if they don't understand his methods. If some random layman on the internet doesn't understand the methods of one of the most intelligent and successful people in sports and entertainment, maybe the layman should consider that the Harvard business grad multimillionaire might be a little smarter than they are. I have to disagree. Buying up commercial time and advertising on a plethora of networks would have been a better strategy. Go all out to let the public know what channel/date/time your next fight is on. As it stands, PBC has very poor promotion. Many fights come and go with many fans not even knowing they were on. Yes the diehards will know as they follow the sport religiously, but the average casual fan wont. Now had he kept it to 2 or 3 networks and had a consistent schedule, I think they would be faring better with ratings. The average tv viewer who tunes into a specific show just wants to know what day/time/channel this show is going to be on. For example... The millions who tune in to watch empire know that its on at 9pm on Wednedays on fox 5. The millions who tune in to watch walking dead know that its on at 9pm ET on Sundays on AMC. Easy to remember and easy to work it into your schedule. Now had these shows jumped from network to network at different time slots and on different days, they'd lose the majority of their viewers.

if Haymon was Harvard educated in business and a lawyer to booth, i am sure he also know how to screw investor and get away with it. You guys give Haymon entirely too much credit. But for the record, he studied economics.

If they paid for 3 years of air time, I'm sure they made a plan for the fighters too. Haymon is Harvard educated. Pretty sure he knows what he's doing. if Haymon was Harvard educated in business and a lawyer to booth, i am sure he also know how to screw investor and get away with it.

yea they have the air time but can they pay their fighters? all the high budget fights are going on showtime and all the low budget fights are going on pbc. that can't be good. If they paid for 3 years of air time, I'm sure they made a plan for the fighters too. Haymon is Harvard educated. Pretty sure he knows what he's doing.

People really need to let this pan out instead of declaring it dead. It's been like 8 months, and they have airtime already paid for until like 2018 or something :/ yea they have the air time but can they pay their fighters? all the high budget fights are going on showtime and all the low budget fights are going on pbc. that can't be good.