New Names Up For HOF Vote

So you don't agree, that every time there is a thread where we count HOFers, then we only count members of the IBHOF? That is simply a false statement on my part? That's funny, because we have had quite a few threads about HOFers on this site... and I don't recall a single one, where posters have included WBHOFers in the count! Take for example a look at the "What Fighter Has Defeated The Most Hall Of Famer's?" thread, which we had over in the History Forum some time ago: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497593 In this thread someone argues (in post #8) that Pep must have beaten a lot of HOFers in his 229 fights. To this IronDanHamza replies (post #9): Quite sure he didn't beat that many Sandy Saddler Chalkey Wright Manuel Ortiz I believe are the only HOF'ers he beat (he beat Wright multiple times) Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm going off memory but I'm quite sure that's it. In addition to the 3 mentioned, WBHOF lists 5 more HOFers beaten by Pep: Carlos Chávez Harold Dade Jackie Graves Jackie Wilson Phil Terranova ... so why did you claim Pep only beat 3 HOFers, when in fact he beat 8, if you feel WBHOFers should be given equal recognition and be included in the count? Well if you read my post again it clearly states that I'm going off memory. So there is your answer. And how many times do I need to repeat that yes your statment is false? WBHOF'ers are HOF'ers and were considered as such.

No, DeJesus is a HOF'er not a "WBHOFer". And no I don't agree with your statment at all and your statment is false. So you don't agree, that every time there is a thread where we count HOFers, then we only count members of the IBHOF? That is simply a false statement on my part? That's funny, because we have had quite a few threads about HOFers on this site... and I don't recall a single one, where posters have included WBHOFers in the count! Take for example a look at the "What Fighter Has Defeated The Most Hall Of Famer's?" thread, which we had over in the History Forum some time ago: http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=497593 In this thread someone argues (in post #8) that Pep must have beaten a lot of HOFers in his 229 fights. To this IronDanHamza replies (post #9): Quite sure he didn't beat that many Sandy Saddler Chalkey Wright Manuel Ortiz I believe are the only HOF'ers he beat (he beat Wright multiple times) Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm going off memory but I'm quite sure that's it. In addition to the 3 mentioned, WBHOF lists 5 more HOFers beaten by Pep: Carlos Chávez Harold Dade Jackie Graves Jackie Wilson Phil Terranova ... so why did you claim Pep only beat 3 HOFers, when in fact he beat 8, if you feel WBHOFers should be given equal recognition and be included in the count?

What do you mean by "regarded"? A WBHOFer is a WBHOFer! That will always be so, whether or not that organization still inducts new members, or has gone out of business. So DeJesus is, and will always be, a WBHOFer. No doubt about that! But what I'm saying is simply this: Whenever a question comes up, about how many HOFers this or that fighter has met - then we (fairly or unfairly) ONLY count IBHOFers. Do you not agree with this - or do you think that's a false statement? No, DeJesus is a HOF'er not a "WBHOFer". And no I don't agree with your statment at all and your statment is false.

Because it just wasn't. The two that were always considered legitimate were the IBHOF and the WBHOF. If you're saying in the last 15 years you've not seen the WBHOF regarded then I don't know where you were for 10 of those years. LOL...yeah, the classes Ring announced for years weren't carried in major papers or anything. It was the only HOF of note for almost 30 years. But not the same...because you say so. Okay. They were remarkably similar. And both haven't had a class in years. I disagree. As to the World Hall, never said it wasn't regarded; said it wasn't regarded the same. Once the IBHOF opened an actual location, it created something that hadn't been there before. An actual place to go. It's like VHS vs. Beta. Beta came first...VHS won. The World Hall hasn't endured. No website. No new classes in now six years. Going forward, what others are saying is correct...a HOF. Not THE. What do you mean by "regarded"? A WBHOFer is a WBHOFer! That will always be so, whether or not that organization still inducts new members, or has gone out of business. So DeJesus is, and will always be, a WBHOFer. No doubt about that! But what I'm saying is simply this: Whenever a question comes up, about how many HOFers this or that fighter has met - then we (fairly or unfairly) ONLY count IBHOFers. Do you not agree with this - or do you think that's a false statement? It's just the case. Look around...how many Camacho pieces have ever referenced his win over 'HOFer Greg Haugen.' There might be some. You won't find a ton.

Too many hall of famers imo. Yearly inductees make it so that there are a pack of fillers that were not really great. it's not really a matter of opinion that they would lose money and have to close the thing, kelvie. yoyu could have a hall of fame like the one you suggested on paper. you just couldn't afford to keep a museum open, the wya they do in canastota.

Because it just wasn't. The two that were always considered legitimate were the IBHOF and the WBHOF. If you're saying in the last 15 years you've not seen the WBHOF regarded then I don't know where you were for 10 of those years. What do you mean by "regarded"? A WBHOFer is a WBHOFer! That will always be so, whether or not that organization still inducts new members, or has gone out of business. So DeJesus is, and will always be, a WBHOFer. No doubt about that! But what I'm saying is simply this: Whenever a question comes up, about how many HOFers this or that fighter has met - then we (fairly or unfairly) ONLY count IBHOFers. Do you not agree with this - or do you think that's a false statement?

Why wasn't it as legitimate? It had the same sort of voting pool the others have/had, was in place longer than either (so far though the IBHOF appears to have staying power); the IBHOF mimics its categories for the most part. And as the sport's international publication of record for decades, it had cache. I've rarely seen in the last 10-15 years the WBHOF regarded the same as the IBHOF, despite it being older, in large part because it wasn't brick and mortar for years. Without an ongoing history, it's the same as Ring's old Hall...a defunct version of a HOF. When most say HOFer, they are referring to the IBHOF. It's been that way for a long time. Rarely seen it argued otherwise. And while you use DeJesus as an example, I can tell you it's a point I hear all the time, but with caveat: why isn't he IN the HOF? How many times do we hear that Ali beat HOFers George Chuvalo and Jerry Quarry? Almost never unless it's someone who knows (and few do) that they were in the World Hall. Because it just wasn't. The two that were always considered legitimate were the IBHOF and the WBHOF. If you're saying in the last 15 years you've not seen the WBHOF regarded then I don't know where you were for 10 of those years.

Exactly... that's the point I've been trying to make! Whenever we try to figure out how many HOFers a boxer has met/defeated during his career, we don't count WBHOFers - only IBHOFers. The point you're trying to make is false. That's the point I'm trying to make.

It wasn't as legitimate as the WBHOF or the IBHOF. They were the first (and only) real international legit HOF's. Why wasn't it as legitimate? It had the same sort of voting pool the others have/had, was in place longer than either (so far though the IBHOF appears to have staying power); the IBHOF mimics its categories for the most part. And as the sport's international publication of record for decades, it had cache. I've rarely seen in the last 10-15 years the WBHOF regarded the same as the IBHOF, despite it being older, in large part because it wasn't brick and mortar for years. Without an ongoing history, it's the same as Ring's old Hall...a defunct version of a HOF. When most say HOFer, they are referring to the IBHOF. It's been that way for a long time. Rarely seen it argued otherwise. And while you use DeJesus as an example, I can tell you it's a point I hear all the time, but with caveat: why isn't he IN the HOF? How many times do we hear that Ali beat HOFers George Chuvalo and Jerry Quarry? Almost never unless it's someone who knows (and few do) that they were in the World Hall.

You're right man, the WBHOF is an internationally recognized HOF, but I think a Hall of Fame needs to be judged on its longevity. At one point the Ring HOF was boxing's HOF. It became defunct. Now those guys will always be Ring HOFers, but HOFers in general? That honor is associated with the IBHOF right now. Exactly... that's the point I've been trying to make! Whenever we try to figure out how many HOFers a boxer has met/defeated during his career, we don't count WBHOFers - only IBHOFers.

You're right man, the WBHOF is an internationally recognized HOF, but I think a Hall of Fame needs to be judged on its longevity. At one point the Ring HOF was boxing's HOF. It became defunct. Now those guys will always be Ring HOFers, but HOFers in general? That honor is associated with the IBHOF right now. It wasn't as legitimate as the WBHOF or the IBHOF. They were the first (and only) real international legit HOF's.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. They should induct another class soon, otherwise they appear to be defunct. It doesn't matter if they do or don't, it doesn't change the fact that the inductees are HOF'ers. That isn't forgotten or deleted from history if it closes down. WBHOF inductees were always considered HOF'ers. Always. If the IBHOF shuts down what happens? Are all the inductees deleted?

Show me a thread where DeJesus is counted as one of Duran's HOF-victims. Well obviously I don't have a thread at hand but I can say I've never seen DeJesus not be labelled a HOF win for Duran.

That's not how it is. Or atleast it's not how it was. Esteban DeJesus is a "HOF'er" that Roberto Duran beat right? Why? Because he's not in the IBHOF. Show me a thread where DeJesus is counted as one of Duran's HOF-victims.

WBHOF HOFers are of course still WBHOF HOFers - even though that organization went out of business several years ago. However, whenever a question like Who fought the most HOFers? or Who beat the most HOFers? comes up (on this or other sites), only the IBHOF HOFers are counted. You can argue, that this isn't fair - but it's simply how it is. That's not how it is. Or atleast it's not how it was. Esteban DeJesus is a "HOF'er" that Roberto Duran beat right? Why? Because he's not in the IBHOF.

It was always the way. WBHOF'ers were always considered HOF'ers. It's only the last few years that's they've stopped inducting that people seem to want to forget they ever existed. WBHOF HOFers are of course still WBHOF HOFers - even though that organization went out of business several years ago. However, whenever a question like Who fought the most HOFers? or Who beat the most HOFers? comes up (on this or other sites), only the IBHOF HOFers are counted. You can argue, that this isn't fair - but it's simply how it is.

Whether the WBHOF inducties should be seen as "real" HOFers (alongside those of IBHOF), or they shouldn't be counted as such... well, that's a thread that belongs in the History section, IMO. It's an interesting question, that deserves better than a thread that disappears from the first page within a couple of hours! It was always the way. WBHOF'ers were always considered HOF'ers. It's only the last few years that's they've stopped inducting that people seem to want to forget they ever existed.

What is the physical address of the WBHOF? Los Angeles Atheltic Club Headquarters. 431 W 7th Street, Los Angeles, CA 900 14, United States.

Whether the WBHOF inducties should be seen as "real" HOFers (alongside those of IBHOF), or they shouldn't be counted as such... well, that's a thread that belongs in the History section, IMO. It's an interesting question, that deserves better than a thread that disappears from the first page within a couple of hours!

The World Boxing Hall of Fame doesn't have a museum or any kind of physical location and hasn't inducted a class in years. But in all honesty, it's just not the Hall of Fame that others refer to as the main "Hall of Fame". That is the IBHOF and it's the one that fighters aspire to join. Somebody else said it best earlier in the thread. It's a Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Fame. Yes it does have a Museum and a physical location. It's not "A" Hall of fame it's one and THE Hall of Fame and that was always the case. Do you consider Estebam DeJesus a HOF'er? I'm pretty sure 99% of people do. He's not in the IBHOF. If the IBHOF stop inducting fighters what then? Would you forget they ever did?