Beating Paul Smith earns you the number 2 spot on a P4P list...

You will criticize any opponent that Golovkin has beaten regardless, because you are a Golovkin hater, so what's the point? Conversely, you will praise Ward despite any point made to the contrary. I put it to you to wait and see sir! This debate will be settled soon enough in the ring by the fighters themselves, not by you & I jawing back & forth. Can we at least agree on that? Good evening to you, sir. Pip, pip, cherry-oh, & all that sort of rot! "Wait and see" - lol again, Golovkin's ranking is based on hypothetical situations and mythical wins! Yet Ward's real wins don't count? Amazing!

Errr...ok then. That still doesn't answer my question about what Golovkin's current credentials are to being Number 4 in the world. You criticise me for using actual achievements for Andre Ward because he has been inactive and they happened in the past. But your reasoning for Golovkin being there includes "people are scared of him" and "he will unify MW and beat Ward's ass" So you're using hypothetical wins over people who are apparently scared and mythical future wins that haven't happened yet :lol1: You will criticize any opponent that Golovkin has beaten regardless, because you are a Golovkin hater, so what's the point? Conversely, you will praise Ward despite any point made to the contrary. I put it to you to wait and see sir! This debate will be settled soon enough in the ring by the fighters themselves, not by you & I jawing back & forth. Can we at least agree on that? Good evening to you, sir. Pip, pip, cherry-oh, & all that sort of rot!

Golovkin must be important to Ward, since he's been calling him out. It's not just because Golovkin's people said they want anyone from 154-168 either. It's because a win against GGG will re-ignite Ward's career. Andre knows it & so does everyone who claims GGG is nothing special. Trouble is, Gennady doesn't need Ward. He'll finish unifying his MW division, and hand Ward's ass to him later.:boxing: Errr...ok then. That still doesn't answer my question about what Golovkin's current credentials are to being Number 4 in the world. You criticise me for using actual achievements for Andre Ward because he has been inactive and they happened in the past. But your reasoning for Golovkin being there includes "people are scared of him" and "he will unify MW and beat Ward's ass" So you're using hypothetical wins over people who are apparently scared and mythical future wins that haven't happened yet :lol1:

Yeah I know who Golovkin fought - a bunch of no hopers. So why is he rated 4th in the world exactly? Apparently Andre Ward's accomplishments from the past are erased. But Gennady Golovkin is justified P4P number 4 when the best wins in his entire career are Murray and Geale :lol1: Golovkin must be important to Ward, since he's been calling him out. It's not just because Golovkin's people said they want anyone from 154-168 either. It's because a win against GGG will re-ignite Ward's career. Andre knows it & so does everyone who claims GGG is nothing special. Trouble is, Gennady doesn't need Ward. He'll finish unifying his MW division, and hand Ward's ass to him later.:boxing:

Ward was out of the ring for 1 year, 7 months, not just 1 year. It doesn't matter why he was out, he was out, period. The world doesn't go on hold for him or anyone else. You know who Golovkin fought as I do, & you also know people are afraid to have their careers knocked down to square 1 if he KO's them. He has the highest KO ratio in his division. You act like his opponents were hobos picked from the skids. We can continue this debate after 1 year, which should give us time to see where these fighters are heading. I predict Golovkin will be even further along than Ward. Yeah I know who Golovkin fought - a bunch of no hopers. So why is he rated 4th in the world exactly? Apparently Andre Ward's accomplishments from the past are erased. But Gennady Golovkin is justified P4P number 4 when the best wins in his entire career are Murray and Geale :lol1:

Terrible list (for a host of reasons). I've never had Ward lower than #2 when he was active, but you can't rate a guy based on what he did years ago and what you think he is probably capable of doing again at some point potentially. And before the usual suspects jump in with "But what about GGG?!?!?!?!?!?!?" I don't think he should be on the list either. Suck a butt.

I base it on his skills and resume. Being off for a year because you're having promotional issues doesn't wipe out what you've accomplished. I'm simple asking why Golovkin is so highly ranked. You're saying that Ward's accomplishments are in the past but when were Golovkin's accomplishments and what exactly were they? Ward was out of the ring for 1 year, 7 months, not just 1 year. It doesn't matter why he was out, he was out, period. The world doesn't go on hold for him or anyone else. You know who Golovkin fought as I do, & you also know people are afraid to have their careers knocked down to square 1 if he KO's them. He has the highest KO ratio in his division. You act like his opponents were hobos picked from the skids. We can continue this debate after 1 year, which should give us time to see where these fighters are heading. I predict Golovkin will be even further along than Ward.

You're tripping, Dirk, plain & simple. You've been arguing adamantly that Andre Ward's deserving of the #2 present P4P, simply based on his past accomplishments. This despite his inactivity for nearly 2 years. You further go on to say that Golovkin is not worthy of recognition because you don't believe he has fought anyone that would warrant such. In fact, you don't believe that any fighter better deserves the #2 slot than Ward, despite them remaining active while Ward rehabilitated his injury & wasted time in court. Do you really think Andre is the same after his shoulder surgery and one fight against a bum, as he was 3-4 years ago? Do you not feel that he needs more fights to establish his position in boxing & adjust to his surgically repaired shoulder? I base it on his skills and resume. Being off for a year because you're having promotional issues doesn't wipe out what you've accomplished. I'm simple asking why Golovkin is so highly ranked. You're saying that Ward's accomplishments are in the past but when were Golovkin's accomplishments and what exactly were they?

Isn't that exactly what Golovkin's whole career has been? It's the "eye test" because he's simply been KOing absolute no hopers so how does anyone know what he'd be like against top level fighters? Ward doesn't need the "eye test" because he's actually beaten top fighters and beaten them convincingly. You're tripping, Dirk, plain & simple. You've been arguing adamantly that Andre Ward's deserving of the #2 present P4P, simply based on his past accomplishments. This despite his inactivity for nearly 2 years. You further go on to say that Golovkin is not worthy of recognition because you don't believe he has fought anyone that would warrant such. In fact, you don't believe that any fighter better deserves the #2 slot than Ward, despite them remaining active while Ward rehabilitated his injury & wasted time in court. Do you really think Andre is the same after his shoulder surgery and one fight against a bum, as he was 3-4 years ago? Do you not feel that he needs more fights to establish his position in boxing & adjust to his surgically repaired shoulder?

rankings always deteriorate with time for the reasons mentioned above - i.e. because you can't tell where a fighter is at if they're not fighting, or are only fighting guys significantly below their supposed level. in the last few years, golovkin has proven more in the ring than ward has if rankings were based on former glories or on "eye test" perceptions of ability, they would be all over the place i don't want to discredit ward, i just want him to get back in the ring and fight someone who is at least ranked. if he wants to stay at 168 lbs and wait for golovkin, then ramirez and chudinov would be fights i'd tune in for (there are others too but they're with pbc). if he wants to stay at 172 then perhaps he could entice gonzalez or pascal down Isn't that exactly what Golovkin's whole career has been? It's the "eye test" because he's simply been KOing absolute no hopers so how does anyone know what he'd be like against top level fighters? Ward doesn't need the "eye test" because he's actually beaten top fighters and beaten them convincingly.

Edwin Rodriguez is probably better than almost all, if not all of those bang average fighters. Golovkin's resume is utter garbage and he's never proved he can do it against a top level fighter. So why is he P4P? Rodriguez is nowhere near better than Geale or Murray. Unless you mean the eye test in head-to-head, which of course you're allowed your opinion. If Ward is really still as good as he was 4 years ago, he should have no problem finding his way back up the list after making quick work of someone legit.

Are any of them top level fighters? No....they are not. Ward has proven his worth against top level fighters. Golovkin hasn't.....not four years ago, not now, not ever. rankings always deteriorate with time for the reasons mentioned above - i.e. because you can't tell where a fighter is at if they're not fighting, or are only fighting guys significantly below their supposed level. in the last few years, golovkin has proven more in the ring than ward has if rankings were based on former glories or on "eye test" perceptions of ability, they would be all over the place i don't want to discredit ward, i just want him to get back in the ring and fight someone who is at least ranked. if he wants to stay at 168 lbs and wait for golovkin, then ramirez and chudinov would be fights i'd tune in for (there are others too but they're with pbc). if he wants to stay at 172 then perhaps he could entice gonzalez or pascal down

Are any of them top level fighters? No....they are not. Ward has proven his worth against top level fighters. Golovkin hasn't.....not four years ago, not now, not ever. a former champion is by definition a top level fighter

you're being disingenuous (or ignorant) if you mean to say that smith and rogriguez are equivalent to the likes of geale and murray. there exist levels in boxing other than "champion" and "bum". geale is a multiple former titlist and murray would be too if he hadn't been robbed twice. smith was a past-prime, domestic level fighter coming directly off the back of a decisive loss and rogriguez has never been worthy of fighting for a world title except as ward's tune-up. since 2012 golovkin has taken out almost as many top 10 ranked fighters as ward has in his entire career Are any of them top level fighters? No....they are not. Ward has proven his worth against top level fighters. Golovkin hasn't.....not four years ago, not now, not ever.

Lets use the same logic for Golovkin.... You've no way of knowing if Gennady Golovkin is actually a good fighter until he gets in the ring with someone worth a sh1t. There is literally no frame of reference with him at any point in his career. "Ward hasn't done anything for 4 years" What has Golovkin EVER done? :lol1: you're being disingenuous (or ignorant) if you mean to say that smith and rogriguez are equivalent to the likes of geale and murray. there exist levels in boxing other than "champion" and "bum". geale is a multiple former titlist and murray would be too if he hadn't been robbed twice. smith was a past-prime, domestic level fighter coming directly off the back of a decisive loss and rogriguez has never been worthy of fighting for a world title except as ward's tune-up. since 2012 golovkin has taken out almost as many top 10 ranked fighters as ward has in his entire career

golovkin has an easily better resume than ward lately. daniel geale, proksa, curtis stevens, david lemieux, rosado, ishida, martin murray, monroe jr., macklin, rubio, etc. what has ward done lately????? his last best win was back in 2012 beating dawson who had to come down 8 lbs. Edwin Rodriguez is probably better than almost all, if not all of those bang average fighters. Golovkin's resume is utter garbage and he's never proved he can do it against a top level fighter. So why is he P4P?

Lets use the same logic for Golovkin.... You've no way of knowing if Gennady Golovkin is actually a good fighter until he gets in the ring with someone worth a sh1t. There is literally no frame of reference with him at any point in his career. "Ward hasn't done anything for 4 years" What has Golovkin EVER done? :lol1:

Ward is one of the top 3 or 4 fighters in the world full stop. We all know that so why play dumb? if not for his promotional problems and injures he would have been p4p#1 don't act like ward hasn't put in the work because you're a fan of lil G it makes you look ignorant. Not really, anyone with a brain knew as soon as he was active again he would be right up there. His resume is better than anyones on that list bar Pacquiao. Should've, could've, would've. You can't rank someone just because you think they have the potential to be the best fighter in the world. The rating should be based on your (current) track record; if you're a great fighter but you fight sh1tty opponents or you're inactive then you shouldn't be ranked highly. I agree that Ward was top p4p fighter 3-5 years ago when he was beating the elite fighters in his division. But he shouldn't be afforded that status if he's inactive and/or fights lower tier competition.

And they're trying to pretend he was gone for like 4 years. "He hasn't done anything in 4 years!" He fought a top 10 LHW in 2013. The year off had him removed, and now that he's back he is p4p again. That's how it works with most fighters. The only reason people want it to be different for Ward is because they're scared of the threat he poses to their favorite fighters and want him to disappear. Yeah, he needs another important fight sometime soon, but that doesn't mean we should blatantly ignore that he's one of the 5 best fighters in the world. He fought the #8 SMW who couldn't make weight. You still have him as one of the 5 best fighters, based on what? because he hasn't done jack-ish to be ranked up there since beating Carl Froch (or Dawson), and I don't even hate Ward. He needs to beat someone highly ranked in his division to justify his own high ranking. I think it's fair to say every one in that Ring top 10 PFP has beaten a top 5 opponent in the past 3 years, Ward the exception.

:lol1: at people thinking taking a year break wipes away everything you've done before. inactivity should be taken into account because we have no way of knowing whether andre ward is still the same fighter who beat froch. once he proves that he's as good as he was back then, then sure, he should clearly be considered top 3, maybe #1