Do you think Wlad would have kept this long unbeaten run with proper officiating?

It's not a surprise to anyone that Wladimir Klitschko holds. The Povetkin fight was indeed very hard to watch. However, Wlad is also not John Ruiz, and possesses an array of skills. He has a world class jab, one of the best ever, he has power in both hands, which means a right hand or a left hook can shut your lights off at any time. The clinching has been ingrained in him as a defensive and survival maneuver, and probably is the reason that he has been on top for 10 years now. Now should Wladimir been penalized points in some of those fights? Maybe, but even if he had 3 points deducted in each fight of his, he still wins comfortably against all his opponents. Does he deserve to be DQed in any of those fights? Absolutely not, in order to be DQed you have to be warned and points have to be taken.

Exactly. :boxing: Never ceases to amaze me how people cannot accurately observe any wrongdoing by one of their favorite fighters. Yet are totally on point in topics on other fighters. :lol1: As bad as Ward was against Kessler - guys it was one fight. He was bad and definitely deserved a DQ! But please don't compare it to Klitschko. It's not at all the same and Ward doesn't lean on his opponents every damn 20 seconds like Klit does! Or grabs his opponents head in a lock. Stop these pathetic excuses.

the only time his clinching was dq worthy was the povetkin fight so yes he would still be HIs clinching against a very passive Haye was very bad, not only that, he was leaning on the guy nonstop, much like the Chagaev fight too. Wlad could easily have been deducted 2 points in each of those fights, which isn't enough to win for the opponents tbh.

how old are you? i'm not a child, and i've got no issues criticizing andre ward. read my posts instead of looking at my avatar. i criticize andre ward all the time. i've done it quite a bit today. ward did some holding in the kessler fight particularly. if you look back at that fight, which none of you ever do, you'll see kessler "agreeing" to the clinches, and even leaning in to initiate some himself. that said, ward's holding and wladimir's are different. wladimir wants a break. he wants the ref to separate them and move them apart. ward fights inside. he's good at it. he keeps a hand free and works. he generally does not want the ref to break them apart. ward's holding is seriously exaggerated for numerous reasons. chiefly, people don't like him. additionally, a lot of you guys have a very rudimentary understanding of boxing, and can't distinguish between the motivations of wladimir's holding, and ward's. I watched klit and byrd fight the second one and byrd kept moaning about kilt holding. the ref warned klit and he stopped holding then savagely beat and KO'd byrd into retirement. so opponents of klit should be glad he is holding them instead of killing them

Remember that when analyzing the next Ward fight. :nutkick: Exactly. :boxing: Never ceases to amaze me how people cannot accurately observe any wrongdoing by one of their favorite fighters. Yet are totally on point in topics on other fighters. :lol1:

To people referencing Floyd, Ward, etc as equals to Wlad in terms of bending the rules. I put in my first post that there have been many, many fighters that have taken liberties with the rules down the years, fighters have lots of idiosyncrasies that they use to gain an advantage (I could honestly name tonnes), but in my opinion no one has taken it to Wlad's level so consistently and blatantly. I have nothing against Wlad, but I think he gains too much of an advantage by it, he relies on the tactic, and uses it in every round of every fight. I don't think you can say that about the other two aforementioned fighters. I am not a particular fan of any of these 3 guys, I am just calling it how I see it. The tying up from stopping fighters to work is one thing, but the fact that he leans on his opponent and puts his weight on them makes it even worse. You can't even say that is a defensive tactic. He climbs all over them, and wears them down. I think this just gives the impression of a lack of skills, he should be stopped from doing this the first time he does it in a fight, its crazy that the referees don't clamp down on this. You actually don't get to see what the other fighter truly has to offer, and doing it against a dangerous opponent like Povetkin is one thing, but Wlad does this even against C class fighters where he shouldn't have to.

Does "Ali loses KO1, he's a woman beater" ring any bells? How does it feel to love a man so much that you are in denial of reality? That's some twisted shit. Yeah those both ring a couple of bells. One was a simple mistake and the first one was an objective analysis against . I don't know how it feels to love a man so much your in denial of reality but I'm sure you could tell me all about it. It probably feels like hundreds of little pin pricks on your arm right? Like getting your heroes face tattooed on your arm yeah? ;)

Yes, they are absolutely different. Ward works brilliantly from the clinch and his opponents are often the ones actually holding because they can't fight inside like he can. Rarely does Andre just hold to freeze the action and people that can't see that are just not educated in the sport. Wlad does what Hopkins does, and worse. He'll hit and hold, and also just hold when he isn't entirely comfortable with the positioning. People who don't actually watch Wlad fight think he does this in every fight and only takes decisions. Absolutely not true. He often blasts guys senseless. These shows of skill and are the reason I think he could do without the clinching and why I get frustrated with him. It's also why he and Vitali were completely different fighters, despite the stereotype. It's no use man. Fools on this site don't know the sport and don't want to learn. They have no idea the difference between "holding" and "clinching". Heck just look at the comments. It's freaking pathetic.

LacedUp there is NOTHING more pathetic than your endless hatred and relentless smear campaign against the Klitschko's. Your a joke mate, plain and simple! Does "Ali loses KO1, he's a woman beater" ring any bells? How does it feel to love a man so much that you are in denial of reality? That's some twisted shit.

LacedUp there is NOTHING more pathetic than your endless hatred and relentless smear campaign against the Klitschko's. Your a joke mate, plain and simple!

LOL at people trying to brush off Wlad's clinching against Povetkin. Yet those same people are in every Ward thread b*tching about 80 clinches against Kessler or the far less he has in his other fights. Nearly 200 is cool though. And Wlad clinching more than 40 times in 5 rounds against Pulev doesn't matter. How dare Floyd Mayweather clinch like 15 times in a fight doe! Klitschko has fans that are so pathetic they try and blame Povetkin for the fight. One of them pointed out to me once: "Well eh, if you look at Povetkin in 1:30 of the 12th round he holds for 3 seconds" -> "Yeah mother****a, if you've been leaned on by a 6'6 250lbs guy for 11½ rounds, you would probably feel it too!" It's povetkin's fault doe

LOL at people trying to brush off Wlad's clinching against Povetkin. Yet those same people are in every Ward thread b*tching about 80 clinches against Kessler or the far less he has in his other fights. Nearly 200 is cool though. And Wlad clinching more than 40 times in 5 rounds against Pulev doesn't matter. How dare Floyd Mayweather clinch like 15 times in a fight doe!

I think you should rewatch that fight... Povetkin was falling into his arms and waist, to be fair Wlad held him up a few times lmao. He did clinch a ****load, but Povetkin encouraged him even more.. by consistently falling into him That was literally the worst fight i've EVER seen. EVER. And I've seen Henri Akinwande fight. There's literally no chance of me ever going through the torture of watching the first round again, nevermind the whole fight! GTFO with that fanboy bullshyt. It was ALL Wlad's fault. Watch this: It's pathetic to even suggest that a true fighting man like Povetkin who was trying to throw punches, was at fault for the disgusting holding, leaning, clinching, pushing, throwing (not punches), Wlad did. Wlad clinched 180 times in that fight. 180 TIMES! He only landed 139 shots! Absolute disgrace. with a couple warnings I doubt very much that wlad have kept it up.hes no golota in the iq department. he actually made the fight longer than it had to be with all the clinching as he was hurting povetkin every time he touched him And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. I don't deal with ifs and buts. Wlad should have been disqualified by the 4th round.

:lol1: That Sig is marvelous!! Thanks mate!

Thats like asking what would happen if Floyd was properly disciplined for using his elbow and forearm in peoples throats. He is allowed to do it, and his opponents must compensate. They know it is going to happen going in. :lol1: That Sig is marvelous!!

He always seems a little more vulnerable in the US simply because the refs crack down on the holding (not nearly enough though), which is his primary defensive technique, apart from moving his feet. The Povetkin fight should have been a particular high point for his career but it is just a disgrace of a fight and if you can bring yourself to watch the first couple of rounds its actually comical. It was watching that again which compelled me to make this thread, as in those first few rounds Povetkin whizzes a few right hands just off the mark, really dangerous looking shots. In the first round alone he had been clinched 14 times many of those where Wlad puts his arms over his back and puts all his weight on him, and actually throws him to the floor also. The second round isn't much better in terms of clinching, and Wlad does obviously catch him with a tremendous left hook, which kind of took the pressure of himself from the ref and the crowd who were starting to really get on the refs back. Plenty of fighters have bent the rules down the years and especially the very successful ones have had little tricks to gain advantages. But I don't think anyone has taken it to this level, not in my generation anyway, I really think he may have taken a loss or two more without applying these tactics to the level that he has done. Thats like asking what would happen if Floyd was properly disciplined for using his elbow and forearm in peoples throats. He is allowed to do it, and his opponents must compensate. They know it is going to happen going in.

I think you should rewatch that fight... Povetkin was falling into his arms and waist, to be fair Wlad held him up a few times lmao. He did clinch a ****load, but Povetkin encouraged him even more.. by consistently falling into him plus wlad hurt povetkin repeatedly in that fight with big punches. seems like people forget about that and focus soley on the clinching. wlad was just too big and strong for povetkin whom I consider the 2nd best heavyweight in the world

No of course not. He should have been disqualified against Povetkin for starters. with a couple warnings I doubt very much that wlad have kept it up.hes no golota in the iq department. he actually made the fight longer than it had to be with all the clinching as he was hurting povetkin every time he touched him

I think you should rewatch that fight... Povetkin was falling into his arms and waist, to be fair Wlad held him up a few times lmao. He did clinch a ****load, but Povetkin also promoted it.. by consistently falling into him He never watched the fight in the first place.

Absolute retardation!!! I think you should rewatch that fight... Povetkin was falling into his arms and waist, to be fair Wlad held him up a few times lmao. He did clinch a ****load, but Povetkin encouraged him even more.. by consistently falling into him