do CW's, fighting unranked guys, guys after beatings affect Pac legacy

You're right both count... and it was counted as a W.Or at least that's what Boxrec says. I have personally scored that fight and can come up with a draw,a Castillo win, or a win for Mayweather all separated by 1 point depending how I feel that day. If we are going by could've would've should've Manny would be a loss away from being in the double digit's in the loss category. Close due to Castillo's slow start. My point is that once a fight broke out, Floyd looked lost.

No bad for a one dimensional brawler. How many times have you actually seen Floyd be countered and hit cleanly? Maidana made Floyd uncomfortable but didn't land very cleanly (aside from the epic right in the 2nd fight). Mosely landed a couple of huge rights and then landed nothing else. I think that the fight revealed more wrinkles to Manny's game. But it also showed how focused Floyd is and how solid his chin is. No one can outbox him at 147 and no one can seriously hurt him with one punch at 147 so I don't he has much of a challenge at 147. 154 lbers have a chance of doing serious damage with one punch but he'll still be tough to crack there.

First off, overall, no matter what the scores were, Castillo beat Floyd in the first fight. Floyd was out to lunch. Secondly, the 2nd was going close to the same way as the first, if you remember. Floyd managed to pull off the championship rounds but before that, quite similar type of fight. More importantly, winning the second doesn't remove from history the first fight. It still happened. Some fighters can get KOed in the first fight then come back and do the same to the opponent in the 2nd fight. Again, both count. You're right both count... and it was counted as a W.Or at least that's what Boxrec says. I have personally scored that fight and can come up with a draw,a Castillo win, or a win for Mayweather all separated by 1 point depending how I feel that day. If we are going by could've would've should've Manny would be a loss away from being in the double digit's in the loss category.

Ask your question when another guy manages to hold the title multiple times on his 7th weight division. Pac is in uncharted territory. He shouldn't even be fighting at WW, let alone holding belts at WW. To further enlighten you, some of current p4p champs best wins are also against unranked or cw opponents: Hatton - unranked at WW Marquez - cw and Floyd still missed weight by 4 lbs Canelo - another cw Even funnier, Floyd blasted Manny for cw fights but then he ended up fighting Canelo at a cw. Manny made cotto go down to 145, 2 lbs from WW and 1 less than his last fight. Manny met Margarito at 150. Margarito had previously fought at WW and outweighs Manny by 17 lbs at fight night, a huge weight disadvantage. The 154 title was total BS but the challenge was real. In contrast, Floyd made marquez come up 7 lbs and still missed weight by 4 lbs. Let's not even mention gloves... and there lies the problem (bolded). Manny MADE Cotto figtht at a catchweight and he originally didn't want to and the WBC stepped in and forced him. Meanwhile when Floyd was supposedly "ducking" Canelo, it was Canelo's team who offered Floyd the catchweight and it was Floyd who accepted those terms. and as far Cotto goes yea he had fought at 146 his last time out against Clottey which was only 1 pound difference in what Manny was requesting but Cotto in the eyes of many looked like crap and lost the fight to Clottey... even if you scored it for Cotto you would have to say it was a piss poor performance.Canelo came in against Trout @153 only 1 pound away ffrom the 52 catchweight. So to sum things up: who was at more of a disadvantage a 22 year old kid losing an additional pound of weight from his last fight? or a battle tested pushing 30 year old man who had already been saying he's getting to big for the division (47) he's in coming off a brutal stoppage and a performance that shouldve probably been a loss? keep in mind the 22 year old kid offered the CW to begin with which would lead one to believe that he knew he could make it and still be strong come fight night

Difference is Floyd had a rematch and the two fights are night and day it was pretty clear Floyd's shoulder was ****ed. his corner was asking about it the whole night which is what any real corner would do... mannys corner? ... *crickets*... here's the thing though what's going to happen should they rematch? Floyd beat Castillo with a bum shoulder and beat him even worse in the rematch. Manny got beat badly the last time out what do you expect him to do this time? make it competitive? First off, overall, no matter what the scores were, Castillo beat Floyd in the first fight. Floyd was out to lunch. Secondly, the 2nd was going close to the same way as the first, if you remember. Floyd managed to pull off the championship rounds but before that, quite similar type of fight. More importantly, winning the second doesn't remove from history the first fight. It still happened. Some fighters can get KOed in the first fight then come back and do the same to the opponent in the 2nd fight. Again, both count.

So you first cry and scream then you do the same ..... got it. BTW - its been a May vs Manny thing for like 6 years now ...... who do you think the TS is? He always tried to make Floyd look like TBE while even bringing down not just Manny but he did the same to others such as SRR. So we know his agenda already. Hence, Floyd's name gets brought up. No. Floyd's name gets brought up because if you really had to sit and have an honest conversation about Manny's resume some of you wouldn't like what you see so you deflect the same way a child or a woman would in order to throw the conversation so off course that no one can actually discuss the actual topic of the thread. I mean for real grow up. If he's really your favorite fighter you should be able to sit down and have an honest conversation about his resume. Every fighter is flawed and every fighter has questions surrounding their resume and no one fighter is above fans picking their resume apart to see what's quality and what's filler. Except fans do think he is above it or if they are going to (what they believe to be) downgrade Manny then the same has to happen for Floyd... Childish stuff.

Knowing Floyd and his fans and how they were all full of excuses in even a poor performance from Floyd in the past, I know and I'm sure you do to, that your hero and his fans would be bringing it up every single time. Just like was done for the Castillo fight, as an example. Floyd was the originator of the "My arm was messed up due to a rotator cuff injury" Difference is Floyd had a rematch and the two fights are night and day it was pretty clear Floyd's shoulder was ****ed. his corner was asking about it the whole night which is what any real corner would do... mannys corner? ... *crickets*... here's the thing though what's going to happen should they rematch? Floyd beat Castillo with a bum shoulder and beat him even worse in the rematch. Manny got beat badly the last time out what do you expect him to do this time? make it competitive?

what am I supposed to be talking about? the thread has already been hi-jacked at the point nothing I can do about it... I made my point but the turds (you included) want to turn it into a may-pac resume thing, like that horse hasn't beaten beaten to a pulp already so I may as well get in there and show you guys why you were wrong to follow this guy the whole time in the first place it was all smoke and mirrors... So you first cry and scream then you do the same ..... got it. BTW - its been a May vs Manny thing for like 6 years now ...... who do you think the TS is? He always tried to make Floyd look like TBE while even bringing down not just Manny but he did the same to others such as SRR. So we know his agenda already. Hence, Floyd's name gets brought up.

No on all counts, of course 1. Won 6 divisional titles over 9 divisions without a CW, unmatched. 2. Unranked guys? Marquez was unranked as welter but first ballot and Pac's nemesis. Rios was fine as a comeback fight off that brutal KO. Algieri was crap though. When the division was it its peak, you had Cotto, Marg, Mosley and Clottey top 4. Pac came up and destroyed all 4 in a row in 18 months. 3. Nobody right off a beating I can think of. Cotto had 2 fight since Marg. He was no fresher for Floyd, after taking 2 terrible beatings and a couple of walkovers. Marg took a long time off, beat a gatekeeper, and didn't really seem affected by the Mosley beating. Brought the chin and stamina.

"Say you hurt your shoulder and we can squeeze another $250 million outta this" Kenny Bayless: "Lemme get break break break in on break break break this." "Just like I told you in the hotel a few months ago. Remember that was the only way you got this fight and you agreed Manny. Now don't punch me too often and make me win a close one. Dont' worry, I already told Kenny Bayless and Dave Moretti. Moretti was going to tell the other 2 judges. Home cooking big time, baby!" - Floyd hugging away

Is how most fighters get over a loss... I have no interest to hear what excuse they made, but I understand why they come up with one. I get that it looked bad because of how the promote Manny as Mr. Humble, but it's about the worst moment of his life. Should we all be judged when we're at our worst? Of course not. That's exactly when we should be judged. It's easy to be the easy going nice guy when everything is going your way. It's when things aren't working out for you in your favor that your true colors come out...

Floyd fans come in these threads talking like (see first post above) then a post or so later forget what they just said and all that comes out of their mouth is "Floyd, Floyd and FLoyd" :lol1: what am I supposed to be talking about? the thread has already been hi-jacked at the point nothing I can do about it... I made my point but the turds (you included) want to turn it into a may-pac resume thing, like that horse hasn't beaten beaten to a pulp already so I may as well get in there and show you guys why you were wrong to follow this guy the whole time in the first place it was all smoke and mirrors...

Give it to FLoyd. He likes dem group hugs. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEDbfZOUgAAxb89.jpg:large "Say you hurt your shoulder and we can squeeze another $250 million outta this" Kenny Bayless: "Lemme get break break break in on break break break this."

I for one think it does. His "historic run" above lightweight is pretty overrated and the media fed into it without informing casual fans of the details. DLH, Cotto, Margarito, Bradley, Algieri, Rios, and JMM were all fighting him outside of their best weight class. Also Mosely hadn't looked impressive in years before he and Manny met Also when he faced Bradley in fight one, he was unranked at ww, as was Rios, JMM, Algieri, DLH, nor was Margarito who he fought for the vacant wbc title at 150. Cotto, Mosley, Bradley, and Clottey were the only ranked fighters he beat above 140 since 2008 at the time they fought....that's 7 years....that's not impressive with other fighters fight top ten comp consistently and get bashed I consider him to be one of the top ten greatest fighters of the past 30 years...along with Mayweather, Ricardo Lopez, Roy Jones, Bernard Hopkins, Evander Holyfield, Julio Cesar Chavez, Pernell Whitaker, Mike McCallum, James Toney It would be hard pressed to rank Manny over Mayweather, Ricardo Lopez, Hopkins, Holyfield, Roy Jones, or Pernell Whitaker on an all-time great list....the other guys resume and skills were comparable to Manny's.....he never was the top ten all-time great that the media wanted him to be...the guy who was gonna rid the world of Mayweather, or any of that.....just another guy who was one of the best of his era, but was one of the most beloved fighters of all time...nothing is wrong with that. Ask your question when another guy manages to hold the title multiple times on his 7th weight division. Pac is in uncharted territory. He shouldn't even be fighting at WW, let alone holding belts at WW. To further enlighten you, some of current p4p champs best wins are also against unranked or cw opponents: Hatton - unranked at WW Marquez - cw and Floyd still missed weight by 4 lbs Canelo - another cw Even funnier, Floyd blasted Manny for cw fights but then he ended up fighting Canelo at a cw. Manny made cotto go down to 145, 2 lbs from WW and 1 less than his last fight. Manny met Margarito at 150. Margarito had previously fought at WW and outweighs Manny by 17 lbs at fight night, a huge weight disadvantage. The 154 title was total BS but the challenge was real. In contrast, Floyd made marquez come up 7 lbs and still missed weight by 4 lbs. Let's not even mention gloves...

48-0:wave: Here is where Floyd was trying to compensate for his poor showing (see below interview) and that his record should have had at least a loss ... :cool2: Fans were booing the decision. Larry Merchant was letting Floyd know. Floyd: "It was tough, my last (days of) training I hurt my rotator cuff. I wasn't able to use my jab and left wasn't as strong but I don't want to have any excuses like other champions. When they get hurt, they don't even come to show up to the fight. I get hurt, I come to fight to give the fans ....." Larry Merchant: Was he much tougher than you anticipated? You after all said this was going to be an easy fight. Floyd: You have to realize that I have a messed up arm. My arm was messed up but I have no excuses. I don't back down or turn down fights. Larry Merchant: So it was a harder fight than anticipated? Floyd: With one arm, yes. With one arm yes. at 6 min mark

Give it to FLoyd. He likes dem group hugs. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEDbfZOUgAAxb89.jpg:large 48-0:wave:

Here I warmed it up for you:bottle: TBE 48-0 P4P#1 BTW is Manny even in the top 5 P4P? Give it to FLoyd. He likes dem group hugs. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEDbfZOUgAAxb89.jpg:large

Knowing Floyd and his fans and how they were all full of excuses in even a poor performance from Floyd in the past, I know and I'm sure you do to, that your hero and his fans would be bringing it up every single time. Just like was done for the Castillo fight, as an example. Floyd was the originator of the "My arm was messed up due to a rotator cuff injury" Here I warmed it up for you:bottle: TBE 48-0 P4P#1 BTW is Manny even in the top 5 P4P?

I understand it must be tough being left with excuses. Good luck with that. In the mean time 48-0 and P4P #1. Knowing Floyd and his fans and how they were all full of excuses in even a poor performance from Floyd in the past, I know and I'm sure you do to, that your hero and his fans would be bringing it up every single time. Just like was done for the Castillo fight, as an example. Floyd was the originator of the "My arm was messed up due to a rotator cuff injury"

If hugs and running is what excites you, then Floyd won in that category. There is another thread here that shows who was the creative one and the one who did the most damage in that fight. One needs to rewatch it to see what the Manny did. Lots of good sneaky shots that Floyd didn't expect and probably the judges missed. It was a close fight. Lots of close rounds and ones that could have gone Manny's way. Manny could have won ..... not as easy to do in Vegas, Floyd's home town. I understand it must be tough being left with excuses. Good luck with that. In the mean time 48-0 and P4P #1.