Duran-Leonard 2..was this running or master boxing

People say Leonard ran in the Hagler fight. If Leonard had decided to go toe-to-toe with Hagler like he did with Duran, he would have been knocked out.

to be honest, i think it was more duran who lost that fight than srl who won it. sure, leonard made some adjustments after the first fight, but the second encounter wasn't as one sided as majority of people say it was. bad training camp, cutting 50+ lbs, plus i think duran just wasn't mentally there. i give all the credit to srl, but if their prime versions fought 10 times, duran would've won 6-7 out of 10 times. Agreed....

to be honest, i think it was more duran who lost that fight than srl who won it. sure, leonard made some adjustments after the first fight, but the second encounter wasn't as one sided as majority of people say it was. bad training camp, cutting 50+ lbs, plus i think duran just wasn't mentally there. i give all the credit to srl, but if their prime versions fought 10 times, duran would've won 6-7 out of 10 times.

I'm not defending Duran for quiting, I don't think there's any valid reason for quiting except serious injury. I just don't think Duran quit because he was loosing, he lost to dejesus earlier in his career and fought till the end. There's no reason to think it was impossible for him to go on and win that fight? If he genuinely felt that way, there'd be no incentive for him to quit. No coherent argument so ad hominems attacks. I've always given him credit for Benitez and Hearns. He lost to Duran and then just ****ed around with him the second fight. The problem is that you pretty much just mentioned his whole career. That's a stronger three year run than any other fighter of the last four decades, with the sole exception of Ali from the early 70's. He beat more ranked contenders, unified the division and faced every major threat (unlike Duran, who blatantly ducked Rodolfo Gonzalez and took years to unify the division) within that weight class in that time. Problem is, you've got nothing of substance to counter any of this, because you're a complete and utter spacker.

Leonard fought approximately eight top ten ranked contenders before he even contended for a title, fought Benitez, Duran 2x, Kalule & Hearns all within under a two year period - if you seriously think that's the record of someone who shirks "real challenges", you're either a moron of the highest calibre or an emotionally-damaged little girl that's incapable of rational, impartial thought. No coherent argument so ad hominems attacks. I've always given him credit for Benitez and Hearns. He lost to Duran and then just ****ed around with him the second fight. The problem is that you pretty much just mentioned his whole career.

No, I mean he could do nothing to negate Leonard that night. Winning two relatively unconvincing rounds doesn't change the fact that he was incapable of pinning Leonard down on the ropes and mounting any serious of significant damage. And if it was a simple matter of clowning (:lol1: @ that being a valid reason for quitting in the middle of a fight) then why were Edwin Viruet's mugging antics - far more excessive & consistent than Leonard's - so utterly futile? I'm not defending Duran for quiting, I don't think there's any valid reason for quiting except serious injury. I just don't think Duran quit because he was loosing, he lost to dejesus earlier in his career and fought till the end. There's no reason to think it was impossible for him to go on and win that fight?

He quit because of his own inability to deal with what was in front of him, and by his own account didn't want to risk getting hurt or risk getting stopped. Every fighter that quits in a fight does so on his own account. How can you say Duran couldn't cope with what was in front of him when the fight was close? I suppose you could say he couldn't cope with the clowning if that's what you mean? No, I mean he could do nothing to negate Leonard that night. Winning two relatively unconvincing rounds doesn't change the fact that he was incapable of pinning Leonard down on the ropes and mounting any serious of significant damage. And if it was a simple matter of clowning (:lol1: @ that being a valid reason for quitting in the middle of a fight) then why were Edwin Viruet's mugging antics - far more excessive & consistent than Leonard's - so utterly futile?

He quit because of his own inability to deal with what was in front of him, and by his own account didn't want to risk getting hurt or risk getting stopped. Every fighter that quits in a fight does so on his own account. How can you say Duran couldn't cope with what was in front of him when the fight was close? I suppose you could say he couldn't cope with the clowning if that's what you mean?

Why can't we have one thread on NSB without Floyd's name being mentioned? This was a good topic to have a legitimate boxing discussion and it got ruined 2 pages in. they ruin everything i hardly even comment because of those clowns

You can easily say that Duran is greater because he actually took on the real challenges. Leonard waited out Hagler, forced Duran into the 2nd fight in unfavorable conditions for Duran, and overall just didn't fight enough. He only really fought until he was 26 years old, after that it was just fighting here and there for money. Duran is EASILY the greater fighter. He moved through more weight classes, fought people in their prime and on their terms, and was just a born fighter. He had masterful skills in both offense and defense and would come to win most of the time. Leonard fought approximately eight top ten ranked contenders before he even contended for a title, fought Benitez, Duran 2x, Kalule & Hearns all within under a two year period - if you seriously think that's the record of someone who shirks "real challenges", you're either a moron of the highest calibre or an emotionally-damaged little girl that's incapable of rational, impartial thought.

end thread

Duran quit, no one made him. He wasn't hurn and he wasn't loosing by a wide if any margin He quit because of his own inability to deal with what was in front of him, and by his own account didn't want to risk getting hurt or risk getting stopped. Every fighter that quits in a fight does so on his own account. In my book, this win is overrated. The fight was at about its midpoint and it was close when Duran quit. Americans spun this into a boxing lesson when it was far from it. Duran just didn't want to take part in the game Leonard was playing and said "F this guy. I'll get him in the rubber match." Too bad it didn't happen until it didn't matter anymore. Speaking of spin. :lol1: If that was Duran's angle, why did he immediately retire following the fight?

It was a moment of madness from a madman. Who knows what exactly Duran was thinking but he probably didn't realise he would be pilloried as he was in the aftermath. He probably saw it as him being above those childish antics and Leonard being the one who was embarrassing himself. He also probably wasn't prepared to work as hard as Leonard was going to make him work.

24 feet............ Lol exactly.

Leonard threw combos, unlike Floyd (and Lara for that matter). They only engage as a last resort.

In my book, this win is overrated. The fight was at about its midpoint and it was close when Duran quit. Americans spun this into a boxing lesson when it was far from it. Duran just didn't want to take part in the game Leonard was playing and said "F this guy. I'll get him in the rubber match." Too bad it didn't happen until it didn't matter anymore. It didnt happen because leonard didnt let it happen same with hurns, same with hagler. Leonard was a great fight but he made sure when he fought it was on his terms

In my book, this win is overrated. The fight was at about its midpoint and it was close when Duran quit. Americans spun this into a boxing lesson when it was far from it. Duran just didn't want to take part in the game Leonard was playing and said "F this guy. I'll get him in the rubber match." Too bad it didn't happen until it didn't matter anymore.

24 feet............ You just answered your own question man.

i had the fight either way after 7 and duran was winning the 8th imo. so quitting because leonard was better was not the reason. yeah leonard did run more than he used to, and i like leonard. but they gave him a 24ft ring so what's he to do? They didn't give it to him, Leonard demanded it.

Post and discuss fellas Neither Larry, that's the truest answer you'll get. No hating, no bias, just plain facts. What we saw that night was plain clowning, Ray said as much himself, he wasn't interesting in outboxing Duran, he wasn't interesting in hurting him with his fists, he wanted to exhaust the champ. He knew the lil giant had gone full party animal, he knew that he wouldn't be in the best shape possible so he infuriated him, he jabbed a little bit (boxing), he moved around a little bit (some call that running) but most of all he pulled faces, he taunted, he jibed, he feinted with his fists and wouldn't throw anything meaningful. All in all, Duran fell for it, he wasn't hurt, he wasn't even exhausted, he just lost heart at the sight of a guy he had at times handled previously, was now making a mockery of him, at times making a mockery of the sport and making a mockery of the oh so famous, latino "machismo". Duran's ego couldn't take it, it was that same ego that made him quit. Leonard worked a master plan. But it wasn't boxing and it wasn't running, it was pantomime.