better career ?calzaghe or ward

Some people debating furiously over who has the better resume when Ward hasn't even begun the defining stage of his career :lol1: :lol1:

There is no real logic to assuming Dawson was unable and Lacy was "good." Your support of lacy comes from paper titles not performance. Dawson performed as an elite fighter before he was bested. But alas the argument here is silly because both guys as said, had real problems. What one cannot do though is elevate the win over Lacy and then say this is better than Ward's win over Dawson. I don't rate the Dawson win at all. He was completely dead at the weight. I mean he got stopped by Andre bloody Ward. Who the hell gets knocked down repeatedly and stopped by Ward? Lacy probably would have even KO'd that version of Dawson.

Lacy was overrated by Americans. He was still a good fighter who came to the UK full of confidence which was beaten out of him forever that night. Whereas you're trying to compare him to a guy like Miranda who was completely shot and devoid of confidence when he fought Ward. Chad Raisin was a walking dead man at 168lbs btw. There is no real logic to assuming Dawson was unable and Lacy was "good." Your support of lacy comes from paper titles not performance. Dawson performed as an elite fighter before he was bested. But alas the argument here is silly because both guys as said, had real problems. What one cannot do though is elevate the win over Lacy and then say this is better than Ward's win over Dawson.

in the super 6 alone andre ward fought more quality fighters than joe calzaghe did in his career Really? Who? Calzaghe could never compete with wins like Kessler and Bika....oh wait... I guess Cowardzaghe now gets credit for driving a few hours within the UK. Ward has logged more travelling miles. I don't really care where a fight is held but Calzaghe also fought in Germany and Denmark as well as America.

Calzaghe. Would ward make it to the HOF if he retired today? calzaghe doesn't belong in the hof

in the super 6 alone andre ward fought more quality fighters than joe calzaghe did in his career

That wasn't the question. Yeah you're right. But that doesn't make it inaccurate. For me, right now it's gotta be Joe; he holds a decision (even if I think it a relatively poor one) over BHop, which trumps anything Ward has yet done. As to Joe having the better Kessler win, I think Ward balances it with the Froch win, which imo is better than any win Joe has except Hopkins. Thing all you roasbeefs gotta remember is that Joe is done. Andre may get alot more done before he hangs em' up and we'll be revisiting this topic at that time. Bank on it. :usa1:

Cowardzaghe had a fear of flying for most of his career. Calzaghe fought outside his home country several times. How bout Ward?

Its Joe and its not even close. He has a far far better resume and if they ever fought H2H Joe would've bombed him out within 5. you got it backwards

You have made some good points but do yu see what you are saying regarding Lacy? You are basically saying that credit should go to him because of some paper titles regardless if his skills as a fighter. lacy was overrated and that is a fact. I don't care what organization gave him paper and a belt. Lacy was overrated by Americans. He was still a good fighter who came to the UK full of confidence which was beaten out of him forever that night. Whereas you're trying to compare him to a guy like Miranda who was completely shot and devoid of confidence when he fought Ward. Chad Raisin was a walking dead man at 168lbs btw.

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: Miranda is a bum who was shot to sh1t when Ward fought him. Lacy may have been overrated (BY AMERICANS BTW... who now try to claim that Brits overrated him :lol1:) but he was a world champion, undefeated and full of confidence which Calzaghe slapped out of him for 12 rounds. Miranda and Rodriguez are a level below wins like Reid, Brewer, and Mitchell. Who the hell is Rodriguez anyway? I notice you add Bika for Ward who Calzaghe beat years earlier. Same as Kessler. You have made some good points but do yu see what you are saying regarding Lacy? You are basically saying that credit should go to him because of some paper titles regardless if his skills as a fighter. lacy was overrated and that is a fact. I don't care what organization gave him paper and a belt.

ward by far. calzaghes resume is terrible considering the status he has. when people feel a need to mention fighters like jeff lacy on your resume, that alone is a huge red flag. you dont see people making a big deal over wins of that caliber in other "great" fighters careers. look at ward, guys like rodriquez and miranda are both better than lacy but you never see a ward fan claiming he is great because of either of those wins. yet you catch calzaghe fans acting like beating lacy was one of the great performances in recent boxing history and is a huge notch on his belt all the time. its not, its a standard filler opponent. kessler was always overrated, although i admit that was a decent/good win (far from great). roy was dead, hopkins was past his prime and still clearly won imo.. all things considered, like i said his resume is just terrible. wards isnt great but he does have that one truly great performance against froch, something calzaghe lacks imo. abraham and kessler arent great fghters by any means but they are world class and they are dangerous if nothing else. the way ward handled both with relative ease makes for two decent wins. add bika, green and the aforementioned miranda and rodriguez as passable filler type opposition and you have a solid resume all in all. again, im not saying these last four wins are something you can support a legacy on by itself. but a few wins like that still add to the overall career provided you have the big wins to go along. calzaghe lacks a clean, impressive win against a truly great fighter. hell, he lacks a real win against a truly great fighter, period. he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as ward as far as im concerned. Very well said! People constantly overrate Kessler. he is a very good fighter who is workmanlike...nothng more. Lacy as it turned out is not on the level of Miranda or Rodriquez. Calzighe took advantage of a shot Roy and whether one believe Hopkins won or not (I think he won) Calzighe was embarrased by an old Bernard. Look at it this way...there was one seminal moment in that fight, that was the knockdown. Now...lets take the hopkins fight with reference to your (the poster assasin's) statement "calzaghe lacks a clean, impressive win against a truly great fighter" because this fight with Hopkins would have been a way for Calzighe to show dominance and he couldn't even come close....may have even lost the fight! Ward has dominated his division and dominated a great fighter in Dawson. I don't care about the excuses because if Calzighe had dominated Hopkins we could then say that due to various caveats the Hopkins win and the Dawson win balance out. The only thing Calzighe people can claim is that Joe went up a division....Ok so be it. How it turns out if these guys had fought is a false argument because it is all conjecture. I don't personally see a way for Calzighe to actually beat Ward, he may have been able to do what he did with Hopkins and avoid Ward, but Andre isn't tiring the second half of the fight and Ward is relentless.

50-42, the Americans have woken up lol

#1Assassin still getting all hot and bothered over the Welsh Wizard some six years after his retirement.

i thought i mentioned bika on joes resume too, if not my bad. but makes no difference since its the same kind of win, filler. beating bika doesnt make you great, i think we can both agree on that if nothing else. i did mention kessler on joes resume, decent win for him just like it was ward. joe fought a better version of kessler but mikkel was actually very competitive with him, won like 4 rounds. i dont think he won 4 seconds against ward, so i rate wards win over him roughly the same as calzaghes. Kessler came into the Calzaghe fight undefeated and full of confidence too. That was him at his peak. The Ward version was not the same fighter and probably overlooked Ward as being some young prospect he could deal with. Those wins are not the same. miranda gave abraham 12 hard rounds in their first fight, beat allan green, and knocked out howard eastman. lacy only held a title because he ddnt have to fight anybody to win it, if miranda fought teh same opposition he would be champion too i have zero doubt about it. same thing applies to allan green, yusuf mack, rodriquez, jesus gonzales, george groves, oosthuizen and just about anyone else. You're talking about Miranda at Middleweight before he got KTFO by Pavlik and then killed by Abraham in the rematch. He was a shot fighter with no confidence when Ward got to him. lacy had arguably the easiest road to a title in the history of boxing. they had him fighting guys so bad some of them actually backed out the day of the fight from nerves. the media spun it into lacy being this beast, but in reality he was just fighting guys who had no business being in the ring to the degree they knew it themselves. that leaves undefeated and full of confidence and i will give you that. none of the tomato cans he foguth managed to beat him and lacy bought into his own hype. if that makes him a great fighter in your eyes so be it. Never said he was a great fighter. The Yanks hyped him up and now they try to fob him off onto us. I thought Calzaghe would beat him but not in the fashion he did. Lacy was never the same after that. i disagree about rodriguez being beneath reid (who i thought beat joe), mitchell and brewer. mitchell and brewer were no good (quite clearly, i dont know what you brits are on about with them). i guess any titleholder is cause for celebration if you are a calzaghe fan, they would be good win for a prospect but they hardly make him legendary. neither does lacy or getting a gift against a 45 year old hopkins. joe simply isnt a true legend and andre dirrell is going to knock degale clean out. im not saying it has anything to do with this, just know you been on that degale train so i figured id let you know to brace for impact. there is a cliff coming up ahead. Who the hell is Rodriguez? What has he ever done? Mitchell and Brewer were no good but Delvin Rodriguez is? LOL...I never said those wins make Calzaghe "legendary" - we're comparing it to Andre Ward's wins. Not whether or not those wins make him legendary or not. You are getting way off track. Lol@ bringing up DeGale. Someone can't handle the heat :lol1:

:lol1: :lol1: :lol1: Miranda is a bum who was shot to sh1t when Ward fought him. Lacy may have been overrated (BY AMERICANS BTW... who now try to claim that Brits overrated him :lol1:) but he was a world champion, undefeated and full of confidence which Calzaghe slapped out of him for 12 rounds. Miranda and Rodriguez are a level below wins like Reid, Brewer, and Mitchell. Who the hell is Rodriguez anyway? I notice you add Bika for Ward who Calzaghe beat years earlier. Same as Kessler. i thought i mentioned bika on joes resume too, if not my bad. but makes no difference since its the same kind of win, filler. beating bika doesnt make you great, i think we can both agree on that if nothing else. i did mention kessler on joes resume, decent win for him just like it was ward. joe fought a better version of kessler but mikkel was actually very competitive with him, won like 4 rounds. i dont think he won 4 seconds against ward, so i rate wards win over him roughly the same as calzaghes. miranda gave abraham 12 hard rounds in their first fight, beat allan green, and knocked out howard eastman. lacy only held a title because he ddnt have to fight anybody to win it, if miranda fought teh same opposition he would be champion too i have zero doubt about it. same thing applies to allan green, yusuf mack, rodriquez, jesus gonzales, george groves, oosthuizen and just about anyone else. lacy had arguably the easiest road to a title in the history of boxing. they had him fighting guys so bad some of them actually backed out the day of the fight from nerves. the media spun it into lacy being this beast, but in reality he was just fighting guys who had no business being in the ring to the degree they knew it themselves. that leaves undefeated and full of confidence and i will give you that. none of the tomato cans he foguth managed to beat him and lacy bought into his own hype. if that makes him a great fighter in your eyes so be it. i disagree about rodriguez being beneath reid (who i thought beat joe), mitchell and brewer. mitchell and brewer were no good (quite clearly, i dont know what you brits are on about with them). i guess any titleholder is cause for celebration if you are a calzaghe fan, they would be good win for a prospect but they hardly make him legendary. neither does lacy or getting a gift against a 45 year old hopkins. joe simply isnt a true legend and andre dirrell is going to knock degale clean out. im not saying it has anything to do with this, just know you been on that degale train so i figured id let you know to brace for impact. there is a cliff coming up ahead.

In a few years Ward did more than what Calslappy did in a 15 year career. That's what's what happens when you spend most of it fighting Welsh coal miners and cab drivers. As opposed to American bus boys and grocery baggers?

ward by far. calzaghes resume is terrible considering the status he has. when people feel a need to mention fighters like jeff lacy on your resume, that alone is a huge red flag. you dont see people making a big deal over wins of that caliber in other "great" fighters careers. look at ward, guys like rodriquez and miranda are both better than lacy but you never see a ward fan claiming he is great because of either of those wins. yet you catch calzaghe fans acting like beating lacy was one of the great performances in recent boxing history and is a huge notch on his belt all the time. its not, its a standard filler opponent. kessler was always overrated, although i admit that was a decent/good win (far from great). roy was dead, hopkins was past his prime and still clearly won imo.. all things considered, like i said his resume is just terrible. wards isnt great but he does have that one truly great performance against froch, something calzaghe lacks imo. abraham and kessler arent great fghters by any means but they are world class and they are dangerous if nothing else. the way ward handled both with relative ease makes for two decent wins. add bika, green and the aforementioned miranda and rodriguez as passable filler type opposition and you have a solid resume all in all. again, im not saying these last four wins are something you can support a legacy on by itself. but a few wins like that still add to the overall career provided you have the big wins to go along. calzaghe lacks a clean, impressive win against a truly great fighter. hell, he lacks a real win against a truly great fighter, period. he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as ward as far as im concerned. :lol1: :lol1: :lol1: Miranda is a bum who was shot to sh1t when Ward fought him. Lacy may have been overrated (BY AMERICANS BTW... who now try to claim that Brits overrated him :lol1:) but he was a world champion, undefeated and full of confidence which Calzaghe slapped out of him for 12 rounds. Miranda and Rodriguez are a level below wins like Reid, Brewer, and Mitchell. Who the hell is Rodriguez anyway? I notice you add Bika for Ward who Calzaghe beat years earlier. Same as Kessler.

ward by far. calzaghes resume is terrible considering the status he has. when people feel a need to mention fighters like jeff lacy on your resume, that alone is a huge red flag. you dont see people making a big deal over wins of that caliber in other "great" fighters careers. look at ward, guys like rodriquez and miranda are both better than lacy but you never see a ward fan claiming he is great because of either of those wins. yet you catch calzaghe fans acting like beating lacy was one of the great performances in recent boxing history and is a huge notch on his belt all the time. its not, its a standard filler opponent. kessler was always overrated, although i admit that was a decent/good win (far from great). roy was dead, hopkins was past his prime and still clearly won imo.. all things considered, like i said his resume is just terrible. wards isnt great but he does have that one truly great performance against froch, something calzaghe lacks imo. abraham and kessler arent great fghters by any means but they are world class and they are dangerous if nothing else. the way ward handled both with relative ease makes for two decent wins. add bika, green and the aforementioned miranda and rodriguez as passable filler type opposition and you have a solid resume all in all. again, im not saying these last four wins are something you can support a legacy on by itself. but a few wins like that still add to the overall career provided you have the big wins to go along. calzaghe lacks a clean, impressive win against a truly great fighter. hell, he lacks a real win against a truly great fighter, period. he doesnt deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as ward as far as im concerned.

Ward, and H2H he'd make Zags look stupid. Just people Ward hasn't fought people seem to forget how incredibly talented he is. He's the best boxer in the world unless something has changed. Based on what? Who has Ward fought let alone "made look stupid" that has Calzaghe's style? I still rate Ward in the top 3 in the world but his resume is being ridiculously overrated. He's looked great against slow, stiff fighters. He's never faced anyone with genuine speed unless you count Chad Raisin. He's never faced anyone who throws 1000 slaps per fight or has good in and out footwork. Calzaghe-Ward would likely be an ugly close affair