Comparing Michael Grant and Deontay Wilder

I don't see much of a comp to Grant vs Lewis and a Wilder vs klitchko match up... I just think k is nowhere near as good as lewis was at that point of Lewis' career.

I dont agree Care to elaborate?

Dc It's not a triangle theory. The point was that Golota could not take punishment or pressure without self destructing. He's not a better fighter than Stiverne when he quits like that. He's just not. I don't see how a fighter like that can be seen as a much better win. He would be easier for Wilder than Stiverne in my opinion because it has been proven that Golota folds up or does something stupid when he's losing. I have yet to see Stiverne quit like that or foul like that. As I said Stiverne is not great but he's solid. He looked bad mostly because of what Wilder did to him. And Golota shouldn't get praise for losing stupidly no matter if he was winning or not. I respect what you are saying, and agree on most of it. I just think Golota was a better win, simply because at the time Golota was relevant, and only folded to his mental problems when fighting one bonafide ATG and one arguably HOF fighter. That level of fighters were the ones that brought out the stupid stuff out of him. Grant also overcame the adversity of first round knockdowns to win, or rather force Golota to quit down the stretch. That is a decent feat. Now, we have gone a bit far on this particular part of the argument anyways - I would probably go as far as saying Wilder is better than Grant was, or has the potential to be, and my whole argument is that Wilder will lose once he fights ATG Wlad, just like Grant did with Lennox. We can leave the better win out of Stiverne and Golota at the relevant times a matter of opinion. :boxing: Anyway, thanks for your input.

DcThat's just triangle theories now man. If we take the standing of the individual at the time, Golota was a top contender while Stiverne was a paper champ...let's say Stiverne goes on to obscurity now and loses some more fights, it will be the same scenario where you could say "what did Stiverne ever do except winner a paper title v fatboy Arreola for 1 fight and lose it straight after?" It's not a triangle theory. The point was that Golota could not take punishment or pressure without self destructing. He's not a better fighter than Stiverne when he quits like that. He's just not. I don't see how a fighter like that can be seen as a much better win. He would be easier for Wilder than Stiverne in my opinion because it has been proven that Golota folds up or does something stupid when he's losing. I have yet to see Stiverne quit like that or foul like that. As I said Stiverne is not great but he's solid. He looked bad mostly because of what Wilder did to him. And Golota shouldn't get praise for losing stupidly no matter if he was winning or not.

I took a look back out of interest to see Grant's career up to the Lennox fight, and his big test prior to that fight was his matchup against Golota, who up to that point had only really lost 1 fight to Lennox (in terms of actually getting bombed out, not DQing himself...). Now, in my opinion, that Golota was a much better win than Stiverne. Grant followed up his best win by getting blasted out early by an ATG, his next step up. I think Wilder v Wlad will be a similar scenario, with the young talent coming off a good win and more hype, being blasted out by the ATG. Agree/disagree? :boxing: I dont agree

Haha damn dude don't do that shit i'm becoming delirious :lol1: How about this one Ross Purity beat Wladmir and Michael Grant beat Ross Purity so Michael Grant could best Wlad right? ha ha ha

I agree that triangle theories are not correct - here is one Golota beat kevin McBride after Tyson already lost to McBride but previously Golota quit against Tyson which after was rules a no contest...oh god I have gone cross eyed!!! Haha damn dude don't do that shit i'm becoming delirious :lol1:

That's just triangle theories now man. If we take the standing of the individual at the time, Golota was a top contender while Stiverne was a paper champ...let's say Stiverne goes on to obscurity now and loses some more fights, it will be the same scenario where you could say "what did Stiverne ever do except winner a paper title v fatboy Arreola for 1 fight and lose it straight after?" I agree that triangle theories are not correct - here is one Golota beat kevin McBride after Tyson already lost to McBride but previously Golota quit against Tyson which after was rules a no contest...oh god I have gone cross eyed!!!

Stiverne is not overrated because most people don't think much of him. He's not great but he has power, chin, and counter punching skills. I thought he would beat Wilder but Wilder is better than I thought. On the other hand, Golota's claim to fame is two losses. You claiming he was "waaaaay" better shows who is truly overrated. What else did he ever do that impressed you so much? I'm pretty sure Stiverne would not have quit against Michael Grant who didn't punch as hard as Wilder does. That's just triangle theories now man. If we take the standing of the individual at the time, Golota was a top contender while Stiverne was a paper champ...let's say Stiverne goes on to obscurity now and loses some more fights, it will be the same scenario where you could say "what did Stiverne ever do except winner a paper title v fatboy Arreola for 1 fight and lose it straight after?"

Golota was wayyyyy better than steverne and usually in decent shape. Steverne is way overrated Stiverne is not overrated because most people don't think much of him. He's not great but he has power, chin, and counter punching skills. I thought he would beat Wilder but Wilder is better than I thought. On the other hand, Golota's claim to fame is two losses. You claiming he was "waaaaay" better shows who is truly overrated. What else did he ever do that impressed you so much? I'm pretty sure Stiverne would not have quit against Michael Grant who didn't punch as hard as Wilder does.

Wlad wins right now. Whether it's like Lewis-Grant remains to be seen. As for Golota I don't agree that's a better win than Stiverne because Golota had no heart and quit. Not the case with Stiverne who took monstrous shots and kept trying to fight. Golota would have never finished that fight last night.taking those punches. Golota was wayyyyy better than steverne and usually in decent shape. Steverne is way overrated

I took a look back out of interest to see Grant's career up to the Lennox fight, and his big test prior to that fight was his matchup against Golota, who up to that point had only really lost 1 fight to Lennox (in terms of actually getting bombed out, not DQing himself...). Now, in my opinion, that Golota was a much better win than Stiverne. Grant followed up his best win by getting blasted out early by an ATG, his next step up. I think Wilder v Wlad will be a similar scenario, with the young talent coming off a good win and more hype, being blasted out by the ATG. Agree/disagree? :boxing: I agree in full. I think that, the chances of Deontay Wilder remaining conscious for many rounds in that fight, are virtually nil.

There is no excuse for Golota quitting and it wasn't the last time he did it. Golota's claim to fame was two stupid DQ losses to Bowe because he was weak minded. His size is irrelevant. What else had he ever done? Sriverne is not great either but at least he has shown he can take a punch, hit hard and has the heart to keep fighting. Golota could not handle pressure. Not against Lewis, Grant, Brewster, Tyson and would foul when he was frustrated or hurt. I see Stiverne as the bigger threat and Golota would have either quit or knocked out last night. There is no way in hell you can equate what Stiverne did to what Golota did against Grant. That's just silly. I'm not equating it, not even really comparing. I'm just saying Stiverne went in with a wrong mindset as well, just as how Chisora did v Fury. These guys went with the completely wrong approach v taller guys. Yeah, Wilder might have KO'd Golota with the shots he landed on Stiverne. Conversely, the shots Golota landed on Grant and the power he had could also have KO'd Wilder. Now, I'm not one to say Golota was some monster, but a lot of people i've seen on this forum actually rate him very highly and i've even seen people say Klitschko has never fought someone as good or better than Golota :lol1: At the end of the day, Stiverne also hasn't done much aside from holding a vacant title and beating up on past it fat-boy Arreola twice. He is a limited fighter with a hard head and can't fight taller men. While Golota was a good fighter but just didn't have the heart to go as far as his skills could take him...

Golota was a 6ft 4/5 guy with big power and decent skills, who up to that point had only really been blasted by ATG Lennox and beat up Bowe twice. Plus he was performing well in the fight with Grant up until the stoppage and dropped him hard twice in round 1, well ahead on points. Grant basically made Golota want to quit... Stiverne quit to be honest when he entered the ring and "didn't feel 100%"...excuses in early because at the end of the day Stiverne disappointed me...he is a slow footed slugger who throws wide looping shots, has bad balance, and can't fight taller fighters or those who don't come at him recklessly like Arreola...Golota definitely a better win. Stiverne was only relevant as he was a beltholder...without that he wouldn't be as relevant and this win wouldn't even be so impressive for Wilder. There is no excuse for Golota quitting and it wasn't the last time he did it. Golota's claim to fame was two stupid DQ losses to Bowe because he was weak minded. His size is irrelevant. What else had he ever done? Sriverne is not great either but at least he has shown he can take a punch, hit hard and has the heart to keep fighting. Golota could not handle pressure. Not against Lewis, Grant, Brewster, Tyson and would foul when he was frustrated or hurt. I see Stiverne as the bigger threat and Golota would have either quit or knocked out last night. There is no way in hell you can equate what Stiverne did to what Golota did against Grant. That's just silly.

If you saw the Grant vs Lewis fight then you know Grant cancelled himself out in that fight. he let his nerves get the better of him as he bum rushed Lennox and got caught early. I see Brieland as a good trainer and Wilder working behind his jab which he has the reach to utilize against Wlad. It would be a different scenario ad I don't see Wlad making quivk work of Wilder as Lennox or should I say Grant made of himself....LeFtY Yes, I have seen the fight, and recall Grant being nervous...doing a long group prayer with his entourage backstage etc. From what we have seen of Wlad, he goes after taller fighters more aggressively. Wilder has a 2 inch reach advantage on Wlad, although Wlad's jab is much crisper, more powerful, and technically better. A lot of Wilder's shots are thrown with speed but they often graze the opponent...Wlad's shots really hit you as his nickname suggests, like a steelhammer. Wilder's stamina isn't great from what i've seen and if he will eat Wlad's bombs he will fade down the stretch so I see him going for it early, although being cautious...but if Wlad catches him early its over. All I will say though is that it won't quite be like Lennox because he bombed out Grant on the inside, where Wlad can't and doesn't fight...naturally the fight may last longer with the two feeling each other out from the outside before someone lands a bomb.

I agree Golota would have quit but stiverne essentially did as well, all he did was follow him around, telegraphed every shot, no jab, nothing. He's tough as they come but id hardly say he put up a fight. I like wilder but I'd like to see how he reacts to someone who challenges him before I get too excited. El Blanco --- who do you see out there that can give him the challenge you'd like to see?

I took a look back out of interest to see Grant's career up to the Lennox fight, and his big test prior to that fight was his matchup against Golota, who up to that point had only really lost 1 fight to Lennox (in terms of actually getting bombed out, not DQing himself...). Now, in my opinion, that Golota was a much better win than Stiverne. Grant followed up his best win by getting blasted out early by an ATG, his next step up. I think Wilder v Wlad will be a similar scenario, with the young talent coming off a good win and more hype, being blasted out by the ATG. Agree/disagree? :boxing: If you saw the Grant vs Lewis fight then you know Grant cancelled himself out in that fight. he let his nerves get the better of him as he bum rushed Lennox and got caught early. I see Brieland as a good trainer and Wilder working behind his jab which he has the reach to utilize against Wlad. It would be a different scenario ad I don't see Wlad making quivk work of Wilder as Lennox or should I say Grant made of himself....LeFtY

Wlad wins right now. Whether it's like Lewis-Grant remains to be seen. As for Golota I don't agree that's a better win than Stiverne because Golota had no heart and quit. Not the case with Stiverne who took monstrous shots and kept trying to fight. Golota would have never finished that fight last night.taking those punches. Golota was a 6ft 4/5 guy with big power and decent skills, who up to that point had only really been blasted by ATG Lennox and beat up Bowe twice. Plus he was performing well in the fight with Grant up until the stoppage and dropped him hard twice in round 1, well ahead on points. Grant basically made Golota want to quit... Stiverne quit to be honest when he entered the ring and "didn't feel 100%"...excuses in early because at the end of the day Stiverne disappointed me...he is a slow footed slugger who throws wide looping shots, has bad balance, and can't fight taller fighters or those who don't come at him recklessly like Arreola...Golota definitely a better win. Stiverne was only relevant as he was a beltholder...without that he wouldn't be as relevant and this win wouldn't even be so impressive for Wilder.

As for Golota I don't agree that's a better win than Stiverne because Golota had no heart and quit. Not the case with Stiverne who took monstrous shots and kept trying to fight. Golota would have never finished that fight last night.taking those punches. I agree Golota would have quit but stiverne essentially did as well, all he did was follow him around, telegraphed every shot, no jab, nothing. He's tough as they come but id hardly say he put up a fight. I like wilder but I'd like to see how he reacts to someone who challenges him before I get too excited.

Great thread topic! Very similar in how they are/were percieved. Also like Grant Wilder has a lot of holes in his game. Like Grant one of these holes could get him blasted....With Grant it was his lack of movement, with Wilder it is where his weight is when he is setting up, he tends to be squared up, instead of having weight back a bit more....Making his head always accesible. both guys need help on defense. I think Wilder could do a lot more for himself because he can move. He could first resolve to throw more punches, learn to properly go to the body and fight inside and throw that jab hard ALL the time. Grant by comparison was not really capable of moving in the ring athletically. I also think Lewis was a lot better, a lot more underestimated than Vlad is. ironickly enough, if Wilder carries the same confidance, which was false confidance with Grant (when he faced Lewis) and goes after Vlad with a high punch count, closes the distance quickly with his jab and gets off some hard shots....I think he might be more of a threat to Vlad than Grant was to Lewis.