How Great Was Oscar De La Hoya?

Oscar is an ATG. There are a lot of fighters he would have beat even in their prime. Maybe not pernell. I have oscar in the top 50. Mosley has 2 W's over him, but no Mosley is not a better figther than Oscar. Oscar did not lose that Trinadad fight. That was coasting to an easy win, not running. That fight was not close. Just answering all of the comments.. :boxing:

Oscar was great but against competition that was just as good or better he didn't perform at the level he should have. He didn't live up to the potential he had, too much outside influence. Still a great boxer in his prime. Who specifically are you talking about?

Oscar was great but against competition that was just as good or better he didn't perform at the level he should have. He didn't live up to the potential he had, too much outside influence. Still a great boxer in his prime.

Hagler? Serious?!?! lol There are legends and then there is all time greats in which Oscar belongs in, and then hall of famer. Who claims he isn't an ATG? The above post was in response to Sugar Adam Ali calling Hagler a true ATG. I've just gone through the posts and seen you said "he is an ATG but he's not that great" or something like that. Is he Harry Greb, Henry Armstrong or Ray Robinson? No. Is he a certified ATG? Yes.

Yeah I don't know why that guy tries to claim Hagler isn't ATG when he very clearly is. Who claims he isn't an ATG?

Good resume for sure but me personally what you just listed isn't ATG for me, it's arguable I woudknt say you're wrong for sayin he was. I can see lower tier ATG. Yeah I suppose on paper you could say he has but I don't think things are what they really seem. I'll give you an example, on paper Cotto would be probably the most accomplished Puerto Rican fighter ever, 4 weight champion, Top P4P for multiple years in a row. Very few fighters in general have managed to win titles In more than 4 weight classes. All looks nice on paper, but is his resume better than Carlos Ortiz? Not even remotely close. See what I mean? Sometimes things aren't what they seem on paper. Let's take Floyd Mayweather, on paper he seems like a Top 10 ATG. Accomplishments; Beaten over 15 fighters ranked in the top 5 at the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten NINE fighters ranked #1 in the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten 6 fighters in the Top 10 P4P Been in the Top 10 P4P list for 16 years, half a decades worth at #1 P4P 5 weight champion, Lineal in 4 of them. Beaten 8 (possible) hall of Famers (some of those won't make it but for sake of argument say they do) Who else can you say this about? Very few, if anyone. On paper looks fantastic but in reality he's no where near Top 10 ATG calibur. Point is, yeah What you said about Oscar looks great on paper but I just don't think he's accomplished more than any Latin fighter or atleast his resume isn't as good as many. That said, Oscar's being an ATG, whilst I don't agree It is debatable. That's why I respect you. While we don't agree, you make me understand where you coming from with your opinion. Lots of posters don't have that. But see that can also be flipped with ATGs as well. Take Whitaker for example(I'm a huge fan of his btw). He doesn't have a legendary resume but is considered a high tier ATG. Some people even have him as a top 10 ATG. Same thing can be said about Hagler which we have debated on before. After that the minor h2h goes into something major which shouldn't be because it's not an actual fact. If that makes sense? Hagler is "far from a legend"? On what planet? Not this one that's for sure. On this planet.

Lotta folks around here better educated than me, but Hagler declared that his hands were the judges and then proceeded to KTFO 18 or 20 guys in a row. He is every bit as great as I can express and better. Marvelous, Big George and Dinamita are my all time favs. Even more than Ali despite having been raised in an Ali household. Yeah I don't know why that guy tries to claim Hagler isn't ATG when he very clearly is.

No, Hagler was a great... Go back and watch him late 70s/early 80s Two handed power Southpaw or orthodox Could outbox you, or bulldoze you Atg chin Atg heart Atg professionalism Atg will power and heart Was voted the best p4p fighter for many years in a row... A true atg in every sense of the word Lotta folks around here better educated than me, but Hagler declared that his hands were the judges and then proceeded to KTFO 18 or 20 guys in a row. He is every bit as great as I can express and better. Marvelous, Big George and Dinamita are my all time favs. Even more than Ali despite having been raised in an Ali household.

Explain to me how you came to this conclusion from my post. My guess is he skimmed through it

So your basis for rankings from this post seems to be "he beat this guy who has 40 something wins/KOs who in turn has beaten another guy who has 40 something wins/KOs" therfore ATG. Do you really think that's more credible than boxrec or achievements?? I really don't think so. Explain to me how you came to this conclusion from my post.

Good resume for sure but me personally what you just listed isn't ATG for me, it's arguable I woudknt say you're wrong for sayin he was. I can see lower tier ATG. Yeah I suppose on paper you could say he has but I don't think things are what they really seem. I'll give you an example, on paper Cotto would be probably the most accomplished Puerto Rican fighter ever, 4 weight champion, Top P4P for multiple years in a row. Very few fighters in general have managed to win titles In more than 4 weight classes. All looks nice on paper, but is his resume better than Carlos Ortiz? Not even remotely close. See what I mean? Sometimes things aren't what they seem on paper. Let's take Floyd Mayweather, on paper he seems like a Top 10 ATG. Accomplishments; Beaten over 15 fighters ranked in the top 5 at the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten NINE fighters ranked #1 in the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten 6 fighters in the Top 10 P4P Been in the Top 10 P4P list for 16 years, half a decades worth at #1 P4P 5 weight champion, Lineal in 4 of them. Beaten 8 (possible) hall of Famers (some of those won't make it but for sake of argument say they do) Who else can you say this about? Very few, if anyone. On paper looks fantastic but in reality he's no where near Top 10 ATG calibur. Point is, yeah What you said about Oscar looks great on paper but I just don't think he's accomplished more than any Latin fighter or atleast his resume isn't as good as many. That said, Oscar's being an ATG, whilst I don't agree It is debatable. So your basis for rankings from this post seems to be "he beat this guy who has 40 something wins/KOs who in turn has beaten another guy who has 40 something wins/KOs" therfore ATG. Do you really think that's more credible than boxrec or achievements?? I really don't think so.

And I acknowledged that he is an ATG. I have watched his fights. He was exciting to watch but just like the majority of MWs, they depend on guys to come up and fight instead of moving north for the true challenges. He's far from a legend. Hagler is "far from a legend"? On what planet? Not this one that's for sure.

I think it is. Whitaker Chavez Sr. Quartey Vargas Hernandez Gatti Camacho And among others. There are ATGs that have less names on their list. Oscar may not be upper tier ATG but he certainly belongs to be an ATG. Champion in six divisions, beaten 18 world champions, NEVER fought an opponent with a losing record, achieved P4P #1 boxer in the world at one point(that's with less than 26 fights), and other accomplishments. No Latin/American boxer has achieved champion in 6 divisions yet. Only Manny Pacquiao broke that. ONLY ONE PERSON. H2H ability has so many flaws though I understand why you do it on as a minor point. Good resume for sure but me personally what you just listed isn't ATG for me, it's arguable I woudknt say you're wrong for sayin he was. I can see lower tier ATG. Yeah I suppose on paper you could say he has but I don't think things are what they really seem. I'll give you an example, on paper Cotto would be probably the most accomplished Puerto Rican fighter ever, 4 weight champion, Top P4P for multiple years in a row. Very few fighters in general have managed to win titles In more than 4 weight classes. All looks nice on paper, but is his resume better than Carlos Ortiz? Not even remotely close. See what I mean? Sometimes things aren't what they seem on paper. Let's take Floyd Mayweather, on paper he seems like a Top 10 ATG. Accomplishments; Beaten over 15 fighters ranked in the top 5 at the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten NINE fighters ranked #1 in the divison being fought in (The Ring) Beaten 6 fighters in the Top 10 P4P Been in the Top 10 P4P list for 16 years, half a decades worth at #1 P4P 5 weight champion, Lineal in 4 of them. Beaten 8 (possible) hall of Famers (some of those won't make it but for sake of argument say they do) Who else can you say this about? Very few, if anyone. On paper looks fantastic but in reality he's no where near Top 10 ATG calibur. Point is, yeah What you said about Oscar looks great on paper but I just don't think he's accomplished more than any Latin fighter or atleast his resume isn't as good as many. That said, Oscar's being an ATG, whilst I don't agree It is debatable.

No, Hagler was a great... Go back and watch him late 70s/early 80s Two handed power Southpaw or orthodox Could outbox you, or bulldoze you Atg chin Atg heart Atg professionalism Atg will power and heart Was voted the best p4p fighter for many years in a row... A true atg in every sense of the word And I acknowledged that he is an ATG. I have watched his fights. He was exciting to watch but just like the majority of MWs, they depend on guys to come up and fight instead of moving north for the true challenges. lol what? Pro what nationality? Hagler is 1 billion % an ATG. The guy has an outstanding resume and has never truly been beaten except for maybe against Bobby Watts where he was nowhere near the fighter he would be. I felt the Leonard fight could have gone either way, the first Vito fight he clearly won and I thought he was robbed against Munroe as well. Plus he came to bring it every single time he fought. Absolute legend. He's far from a legend.

Well that's yours and their opinion but I truly don't see it. I think a lot of it has to do with pro nationality. lol what? Pro what nationality? Hagler is 1 billion % an ATG. The guy has an outstanding resume and has never truly been beaten except for maybe against Bobby Watts where he was nowhere near the fighter he would be. I felt the Leonard fight could have gone either way, the first Vito fight he clearly won and I thought he was robbed against Munroe as well. Plus he came to bring it every single time he fought. Absolute legend.

Well that's yours and their opinion but I truly don't see it. I think a lot of it has to do with pro nationality. No, Hagler was a great... Go back and watch him late 70s/early 80s Two handed power Southpaw or orthodox Could outbox you, or bulldoze you Atg chin Atg heart Atg professionalism Atg will power and heart Was voted the best p4p fighter for many years in a row... A true atg in every sense of the word

Marvin Hagler is every bit as great as people make him out to be and then some. Well that's yours and their opinion but I truly don't see it. I think a lot of it has to do with pro nationality.

:lol1: Oscar is the one guy who fought absolutely everyone at the time they were in their prime. Similar to a sugar ray leonard. Exactly.... It's like dudes ignore the 20 prime fighters he fought and only focus on pernell and chavez.. It's like- when in the hell was he supposed to fight them.. Build a time machine and go back to 89... To beat the man, you have to beat the man, and chavez was the man at 140, and pernell was the man at 147 when Oscar fought them...

I think he's an ATG but he's not all that great what people make him out to be. Marvin Hagler is every bit as great as people make him out to be and then some.

Thank you, sir. The DLH fans list all the names, but WHEN he fought them has to be taken into consideration. :lol1: Oscar is the one guy who fought absolutely everyone at the time they were in their prime. Similar to a sugar ray leonard.