Don King the worst scum in boxing history (documentary)

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You're actually right on all points, and it's really hard to argue otherwise but the scammers lay within the sport itself not just the likes of both King and Arum. Before there were King and Arum there was the mob who did nothing different except they didn't have boxing licenses and a promotional banner. Thus, we trade one group of scammers for another. That's my point exactly. It's not about the individuals, it's a systemic problem.

The fault lies with the sport for making it possible for the likes of King and Arum to do what they do. A scam will always attract scammers and the scope for scamming fighters is significant to say the least. Arum and King are both cunts but whining about it does no good in the end. You have to make what they do impossible. You're actually right on all points, and it's really hard to argue otherwise but the scammers lay within the sport itself not just the likes of both King and Arum. Before there were King and Arum there was the mob who did nothing different except they didn't have boxing licenses and a promotional banner. Thus, we trade one group of scammers for another.

The fault lies with the sport for making it possible for the likes of King and Arum to do what they do. A scam will always attract scammers and the scope for scamming fighters is significant to say the least. Arum and King are both cunts but whining about it does no good in the end. You have to make what they do impossible.

I will play devil's advocate here...and....being that we are dealing with King I might be using that expression in a literal sense. White America (of which I am a part BTW) tends to view white collar crime and its consequences as less than the visceral nature of crimes involving violence. In King's case the atmosphere of Cleveland where he was operating was such that his actions were not atypical. The other players he beat out on his raquet were equally viscious batards. The Jewish underworld tried to have King murdered several times, the way they played in that town was to blow each other to smithereens. King's behavoir was par for the course. Arum is the kind of guy that hires others to get there hands dirty. He equally has a negative impact, its just sanitized. I dont know everything Arum does but the actions we see are reprehensible....Like for example how he screws with Manny. Yes King strongarmed and Arum cajoles....But as James was wont to say: whether you have a barbq or the barn burns down, roast pork is roast pork. You're points are very pertinent. A Harvard educated lawyer who worked within the Kennedy administration is unlikely to go about his business in the same manner as a numbers tsar from Cleveland. So Bob Arum was never going to be willing too kill a man over $600. That doesn't mean that he's any less capable of being unscrupulous within boxing promotion. If anything his background makes him more equipped if he was so inclined. But, if a man is willing to take another's life over a petty $600 debt then what level isn't he willing to stoop to? And King never seemed to drift far from that mentality. I've not encountered stories around Arum like I have with King. Now that could just be an acknowledged lack of knowledge on my part, or Arum may have friends in the right places within the media so it never reaches print. But it seems that Don is just far more unscrupulous. Taking Tim Witherspoon as a case in point. Like most of Don King's fighters he was 'managed' by King's stepson Carl King who was also the president of Sportsville Inc who were the company that also 'managed' a number of Don's fighters. This was set up by Don to get round the conflict of interest inherent in the manager/promoter position and the reason why it's illegal to be both. (That a father and son were allowed to fill these positions is itself ludicrous and shows how little the boxing organisations actually cared about protecting boxers from being exploited.) Witherspoon claimed that he signed two contracts with Carl King, one that went to the boxing commissions that had Carl taking 33% and another, the real one, that had him taking 50%. For the Bruno fight Witherspoon was promised $500,000. Carl King took $275,000 straight off the top. Witherspoon was billed for a multitude of 'expenses' including the running of his training camp that had already been factored in to his purse. King had already taken $100,000 for training expenses before he billed the fighter a second time. He was also made to pay the tax on the full amount of $500,000. This wasn't out of the ordinary either. For one bout he received just $52,720 of his $150,000 purse. Of course, Carl King barely saw a fraction of this money. It was all but going into Don's coffers. Like I say it may just be a lack of knowledge on my part but I've never heard of Arum's bag of tricks running quite so deep.

Whilst acknowledging that African-Americans are often lambasted for actions that European-Americans routinely engage in without receiving as much criticism, I don't see that being the case here. I'm not as up on Bob Arum, so any info on his particular brand of 'trickeration' (to use a Don King term) would be welcomed. Just taking a cursory glance at King's early actions though make it difficult to see how Bob Arum could be considered worse. In 1954 King shot and killed a man named Hillary Brown from Detroit when he and two other stickup men tried to rob one of Don's gambling houses on East 123rd Street. The county prosecutor ruled it was 'justifiable homicide'. In 1966, the year he killed Sam Garrett, he was Cleveland's numbers tzar pocketing around $15,000 a day through illegal gambling. Garrett was a former employee in King's numbers organisation, who'd lost a bet with the man he considered a friend and owed King $600. He was also a drug abuser, sickly thin, suffered from tuberculosis, had recently had an operation to remove a kidney and was outweighed by King by 100 lbs. He was also unarmed. King pistol whipped him with a fully loaded unregistered gun outside the Manhattan Tap Room bar. When the smaller man who was incapable of defending himself slumped to the curb, King repeatedly stomped and kicked him until, blood gurgling from his mouth, he moaned his last words; "Don, I'll pay you the money." The key witness Rosa Wrines disappeared at the time of trial. Other witness did likewise or changed their testimony. The detectives who worked the case, Carl DeLau and Bob Tonne both believe that Judge Corrigan was also paid off. Tonne himself was approached twice with bride offers, once by the criminal attorney Milton Firestone. When King was found guilty of second degree murder, Judge Corrigan modified the conviction and reduced King's sentence. He served just 3 years and 11 months instead of a life conviction with the possibility of parole after a minimum of 8 years. When Corrigan later ran for the court of appeals in 1974, King had Muhammad Ali campaigned for him. Whilst people may not approve of 'Uncle"Today I'm telling the truth, yesterday I was lying" Arum', he's not on this level. As has already been mentioned, King's a special kind of socio-path. I will play devil's advocate here...and....being that we are dealing with King I might be using that expression in a literal sense. White America (of which I am a part BTW) tends to view white collar crime and its consequences as less than the visceral nature of crimes involving violence. In King's case the atmosphere of Cleveland where he was operating was such that his actions were not atypical. The other players he beat out on his raquet were equally viscious batards. The Jewish underworld tried to have King murdered several times, the way they played in that town was to blow each other to smithereens. King's behavoir was par for the course. Arum is the kind of guy that hires others to get there hands dirty. He equally has a negative impact, its just sanitized. I dont know everything Arum does but the actions we see are reprehensible....Like for example how he screws with Manny. Yes King strongarmed and Arum cajoles....But as James was wont to say: whether you have a barbq or the barn burns down, roast pork is roast pork.

Whilst acknowledging that African-Americans are often lambasted for actions that European-Americans routinely engage in without receiving as much criticism, I don't see that being the case here. I'm not as up on Bob Arum, so any info on his particular brand of 'trickeration' (to use a Don King term) would be welcomed. Just taking a cursory glance at King's early actions though make it difficult to see how Bob Arum could be considered worse. In 1954 King shot and killed a man named Hillary Brown from Detroit when he and two other stickup men tried to rob one of Don's gambling houses on East 123rd Street. The county prosecutor ruled it was 'justifiable homicide'. In 1966, the year he killed Sam Garrett, he was Cleveland's numbers tzar pocketing around $15,000 a day through illegal gambling. Garrett was a former employee in King's numbers organisation, who'd lost a bet with the man he considered a friend and owed King $600. He was also a drug abuser, sickly thin, suffered from tuberculosis, had recently had an operation to remove a kidney and was outweighed by King by 100 lbs. He was also unarmed. King pistol whipped him with a fully loaded unregistered gun outside the Manhattan Tap Room bar. When the smaller man who was incapable of defending himself slumped to the curb, King repeatedly stomped and kicked him until, blood gurgling from his mouth, he moaned his last words; "Don, I'll pay you the money." The key witness Rosa Wrines disappeared at the time of trial. Other witness did likewise or changed their testimony. The detectives who worked the case, Carl DeLau and Bob Tonne both believe that Judge Corrigan was also paid off. Tonne himself was approached twice with bride offers, once by the criminal attorney Milton Firestone. When King was found guilty of second degree murder, Judge Corrigan modified the conviction and reduced King's sentence. He served just 3 years and 11 months instead of a life conviction with the possibility of parole after a minimum of 8 years. When Corrigan later ran for the court of appeals in 1974, King had Muhammad Ali campaigned for him. Whilst people may not approve of 'Uncle"Today I'm telling the truth, yesterday I was lying" Arum', he's not on this level. As has already been mentioned, King's a special kind of socio-path.

"Arum is just as bad doe... doe doe doe" Some people truly give's one the impression that humanity is going backwards.

Lets see, one man has beaten a guy to death and the other one hasn't........hummmm tough choice........NOT!!!

To be fair: Its kind of a red herring to compare the evil quotient of King to Arum....Its cool to make a case for either one frankly...My opinion nonwithstanding. BUT there is a certain type of doofus that seems to think that the fact that Arum is a piece of sh11t somehow acts as an excuse for King. That kind of logic is what is destroying the faculties of the youth today....that is some illogical sh111t!!!! King is horrendous, period. Evil sociopaths do not become less evil because some other sociopath is more evil!

OK BOB ARUM http://chrisqueen.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/denial.jpg If that's all you got, we are done here.

You are not very bright You have Justin Beiber as your Sig and Avatar...ENOUGH SAID!:lol1:

Arum just as BAD, actually I think he is WORSE because he is allowed to get away with his BS Lying, Cheating And Stealing is something you must be able to do to be a successful promotion You are not very bright

Top Rank is a private company. They aren't obligated to open their books like General Motors is. Pacquiao hired a group to look into his finances, but he quickly fired them. That too is a private matter. So this is what we know. Pacquiao has never accused Arum of cheating him. He repeatedly re-signs with Top Rank and takes hefty bonuses for doing it, even though he knows that competing promoters would try to sign him if given the chance. So what exactly is your PROOF that Arum cheats MP out of anything? Where is the dirt that you claim is being excused? The link you posted is four years old already and involves boxing promoters suing competitors, which is hardly big news. OK BOB ARUM http://chrisqueen.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/denial.jpg

PROVE IT? The Fact that he won't open his books and when Pacquiao tried to get a Agency to come in a do a Audit and get him to open his books somehow all of that went away right? Your busy trying to Prove that Don King is "WORSE", I'm not arguing who is Worse, I'm simply saying that Arum is just as BAD but instead of being called out for it once again your proving my point, some reason people DEFEND ARUM'S "DIRT" and make excuses for it http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5601657 Their Promoters! Lying, Cheating, Stealing is part of their job description Top Rank is a private company. They aren't obligated to open their books like General Motors is. Pacquiao hired a group to look into his finances, but he quickly fired them. That too is a private matter. So this is what we know. Pacquiao has never accused Arum of cheating him. He repeatedly re-signs with Top Rank and takes hefty bonuses for doing it, even though he knows that competing promoters would try to sign him if given the chance. So what exactly is your PROOF that Arum cheats MP out of anything? Where is the dirt that you claim is being excused? The link you posted is four years old already and involves boxing promoters suing competitors, which is hardly big news.

You can't prove any of your accusations. And I'm sure the ratio of lawsuits filed against King compared to Arum would be about 10-1. Since you mentioned Michael Marley, he worked for King a lot longer than he worked for Bob Arum. Not to mention that Arum was never convicted of killing someone over a petty street debt, so there is really no comparison. PROVE IT? The Fact that he won't open his books and when Pacquiao tried to get a Agency to come in a do a Audit and get him to open his books somehow all of that went away right? Your busy trying to Prove that Don King is "WORSE", I'm not arguing who is Worse, I'm simply saying that Arum is just as BAD but instead of being called out for it once again your proving my point, some reason people DEFEND ARUM'S "DIRT" and make excuses for it http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5601657 Their Promoters! Lying, Cheating, Stealing is part of their job description

LMFAO Arum don't even open his BOOKS, yeah keep believing that BULLSH1T if you want, Arum is NO BETTER. Arum makes more off of Pacquiao than Pacquiao makes off of himself. Also go look up all the Lawsuits against Top Rank Past and even Present They're both piece of sh1ts but like I said and like you're confirming, Arum just gets away with Robbing People because some how he always has guys regardless if it is fans or people in the media like Michael Marley who defends his Corruption You can't prove any of your accusations. And I'm sure the ratio of lawsuits filed against King compared to Arum would be about 10-1. Since you mentioned Michael Marley, he worked for King a lot longer than he worked for Bob Arum. Not to mention that Arum was never convicted of killing someone over a petty street debt, so there is really no comparison.

So it's okay that King stole millions from his own fighters? That he was sued by almost 40 of them? Arum is a prick, but his fighters get paid. Your values seem conveniently warped. LMFAO Arum don't even open his BOOKS, yeah keep believing that BULLSH1T if you want, Arum is NO BETTER. Arum makes more off of Pacquiao than Pacquiao makes off of himself. Also go look up all the Lawsuits against Top Rank Past and even Present They're both piece of sh1ts but like I said and like you're confirming, Arum just gets away with Robbing People because some how he always has guys regardless if it is fans or people in the media like Michael Marley who defends his Corruption

Quillin is worse.

Arum is bad but King was/is on a different level. I heard that he himself is broke right now.