Miguel Jotto Cotto or Juan Maricon Marquez?

He did and you chose to ignore it, your lack of intelligence is the issue not Cotto's resume or the description of it. i do lack intelligence. but enough intelligence to know what a rhetorical question is. google it. learning is good.

I totally agree that Floyd has fought tough comp. But these wins Cotto has are undervalued to a degree. Quintana went on after that loss and cleanly beat the monster that was Paul Williams. Am I saying they're on the level of Hernandez or Corrales? No, but they're good wins over top 10 opposition. ah ha. but i never said cotto didn't have good wins. let's go back to where this all started before all the overreaction. i said "Cotto was more babied, protected, cherrypicked for by Top Rank than Floyd or Manny." he was. cotto was a good asset, future moneymaker because of the PR fan base. that doesn't mean he didn't have tough matchups.

I like debating with you too Tua. You know this stuff and it shows.

Nobody in their right mind was picking Quintana and especially Yuri to even stand a chance vs Cotto. Shane was neither a clear win (some people had it a draw and few other even had it a Shane win) or close to prime. He was clearly a past prime flatter footed version but still good enough to beat most. >__>.... Judah was also buzzing Cotto up until around the low blows started (Still, Judah woulda been broken regardless). And Delvin...no. Just no. I understand he had back to back losses but it's still not worth mentioning lol. Cotto is an elite fighter, we all know that but it hasnt exactly been stellar all the time. I love Cotto but he's also open to the criticism most other elites are, maybe even a bit more. Dude I remember plenty of people on here picking Foreman and Quintana to beat him. He was coming of his loss to Pacquiao against Yuri and off that surprisingly close win over Paulie. He had plenty of doubters and didn't have nearly as much hype behind him going into those bouts. Judah isn't on Cotto's level. The fact that Judah was trying to sell clean body shots as low blows in the 4th tells me he was looking for a way out.

el angel, you're a cool guy. i like arguing with you, which is the point of good debates. but it was bad timing to write names like oktay, abdulaev, pinto, etc. RIGHT AFTER bushbaby tried to crap on genaro and corrales. i hate floyd too but genaro was the top ranked 130 fighter at the time. and diego was a beast at the time. i thought floyd was in trouble when he took that fight tbh. 6 ft monster JLW with power, man. I totally agree that Floyd has fought tough comp. But these wins Cotto has are undervalued to a degree. Quintana went on after that loss and cleanly beat the monster that was Paul Williams. Am I saying they're on the level of Hernandez or Corrales? No, but they're good wins over top 10 opposition.

@el angel you know your defense of cotto just helped make my point. all the names you spit out to help cotto's case..... you showed his lack of resume for supposedly a guy thought fought everyone. hmmm.... when was the 1st time cotto fought the top guy in his division? i know a 21 yr. old floyd did it 2 years into his career. pac did it at what 20 yrs. old? when did cotto fight the top guy in his division? who was it? refresh my memory. He did and you chose to ignore it, your lack of intelligence is the issue not Cotto's resume or the description of it.

@el angel you know your defense of cotto just helped make my point. all the names you spit out to help cotto's case..... you showed his lack of resume for supposedly a guy thought fought everyone. hmmm.... when was the 1st time cotto fought the top guy in his division? i know a 21 yr. old floyd did it 2 years into his career. pac did it at what 20 yrs. old? when did cotto fight the top guy in his division? who was it? refresh my memory. It was Manny Pacquiao at WW. He grew out of 140 before he could challenge the top dog. Then challenged Floyd at 154, then Sergio at 160. The top dog at each weight. There is no guy that took on all comers, but Cotto came damn close.

canelo is on his way to an amazing resume that surpasses cotto and floyds. end of threah . thank you bery mush

el angel, you're a cool guy. i like arguing with you, which is the point of good debates. but it was bad timing to write names like oktay, abdulaev, pinto, etc. RIGHT AFTER bushbaby tried to crap on genaro and corrales. i hate floyd too but genaro was the top ranked 130 fighter at the time. and diego was a beast at the time. i thought floyd was in trouble when he took that fight tbh. 6 ft monster JLW with power, man.

Talking down to everyone in the thread about not watching boxing for a long time while completely ignoring the work from Cotto's early career. :lol1: :lol1: Of course Floyd and Pacquiao have better resumes, they showed to be better fighters on the nights they fought Cotto. That makes Cotto's resume bad somehow? You bring up the Torres fight as a cherry pick, he was a late replacement for Gianluca Branco. Seem to forget minor details like that. Cotto's resume at 140 wasn't stellar, just solid as he was becoming accustomed to being a pro and that weight soon drained him. Still doe, Corley, Branco, Pinto, Abdullaev, Torres, Bailey, Sosa, N'Dou, Maussa, Malignaggi, and hell even Bazan are decent wins for a young fighter on the way up. At 147, his first fight up was against the undefeated Carlos Quintana, who was coming off a schooling of Joel Julio. Cotto wasn't the popular pick in this fight, and similar to Yuri Foreman fight, he showed he's clearly levels above fighters of this caliber. Urkal was a mandatory and ranked top 10 WW. Judah was his first name fighter and while he wasn't coming off a hot streak, he was motivated for a huge fight in near his home and came to fight. Mosley was a great win, clear decision over a HOF near his prime and showed multiple layers to the KING's game. Gomez was part of the doubleheader to build up the Margo fight, while Bricks fight on the undercard. I'm not going to get into Margo, I feel he cheated and that's I have to say on that. Jennings for the WBO was crap, I'll admit that. Clottey in MSG on the other hand, was a legit fight against a guy who almost beat Margarito before he broke his hands. Clottey was tough and had his moments against a Cotto coming his first loss, losing uncle as trianer, and using his friend to run camp. Good win for him when he wasn't in a good place. Against Pacquiao, those problems were exposed and led to his downfall. At 154, Yuri Foreman was coming off a title win over Daniel Santos on the Pacquiao-Cotto undercard and just like Quintana, was a popular pick coming into the Bronx. Cotto dominated him BEFORE he hurt his knee and was clearly going to win. The Mayorga rematch was a money grab in Vegas with a name opponent to help TR add some shine to their new relationship with Showtime, who had just gotten the Pacquiao-Mosley PPV. The Margarito rematch was necessary to help get rid of the demons of that night in Vegas and to move on with is career. Fighting the P4P #1 guy in Floyd next, Cotto showed that there is plenty left in the tank and took him to very deep waters in a close loss. The Trout loss was hard to watch, the first fight where I felt he looked old. No snap on his punches, lost his enthusiasm very early in the fight, and the style employed didn't suit him. Enter Freddie Roach. Everyone said it wouldn't help Cotto to hire Roach, but he excels at teaching the skills that Cotto employed best during his prime. Footwork, offensive variety, and he's making MC use that left hook to the body. Everyone craps on the Delvin Rodriguez fight, but he was coming off back to back losses and D-Rod was barely outside the top 10 at 154. He destroyed him and signed on to make history against Sergio, a fight where many said and I quote "Even a 50% Martinez KTFO Cotto." He comes in the first round and it's immediately apparent Martinez is in with fighter on his level and that he must respect. He landed his left hook and that ended Sergio's night. He never regained his legs under him and battered, bloodied, and outboxed by Cotto. You always shit on Cotto and say how protected he is. This is not the resume of a protected fighter. He was tested early and often by TR. He was not moved slowly like these fighters are today. Cotto is KING of the MW's and he's here to stay. Nobody in their right mind was picking Quintana and especially Yuri to even stand a chance vs Cotto. Shane was neither a clear win (some people had it a draw and few other even had it a Shane win) or close to prime. He was clearly a past prime flatter footed version but still good enough to beat most. >__>.... Judah was also buzzing Cotto up until around the low blows started (Still, Judah woulda been broken regardless). And Delvin...no. Just no. I understand he had back to back losses but it's still not worth mentioning lol. Cotto is an elite fighter, we all know that but it hasnt exactly been stellar all the time. I love Cotto but he's also open to the criticism most other elites are, maybe even a bit more.

so floyd and pac fought top fighters earlier in their careers than cotto. pac and floyd has the better resumes. but i'm wrong to say cotto was more protected than pac/pbf because......?

@el angel you know your defense of cotto just helped make my point. all the names you spit out to help cotto's case..... you showed his lack of resume for supposedly a guy thought fought everyone. hmmm.... when was the 1st time cotto fought the top guy in his division? i know a 21 yr. old floyd did it 2 years into his career. pac did it at what 20 yrs. old? when did cotto fight the top guy in his division? who was it? refresh my memory.

:lol1: Hernandez and Corrales?? That's who you have?? Killers for sure, the bane of boxing. You got me, what can I say. I guess they are better than a prime Margarito and Pacman (who Floyd himself didn't want any part of, with Pacman being mutual and retirement instead of Margarito). i'll explain because you're slow. cotto has had more dangerous fights because he's not that good. few fighters are a danger to floyd. floyd's tuneups are better than who cotto fought to win a title. pinto, quintana, yuri.... lol

Talking down to everyone in the thread about not watching boxing for a long time while completely ignoring the work from Cotto's early career. :lol1: :lol1: Of course Floyd and Pacquiao have better resumes, they showed to be better fighters on the nights they fought Cotto. That makes Cotto's resume bad somehow? You bring up the Torres fight as a cherry pick, he was a late replacement for Gianluca Branco. Seem to forget minor details like that. Cotto's resume at 140 wasn't stellar, just solid as he was becoming accustomed to being a pro and that weight soon drained him. Still doe, Corley, Branco, Pinto, Abdullaev, Torres, Bailey, Sosa, N'Dou, Maussa, Malignaggi, and hell even Bazan are decent wins for a young fighter on the way up. At 147, his first fight up was against the undefeated Carlos Quintana, who was coming off a schooling of Joel Julio. Cotto wasn't the popular pick in this fight, and similar to Yuri Foreman fight, he showed he's clearly levels above fighters of this caliber. Urkal was a mandatory and ranked top 10 WW. Judah was his first name fighter and while he wasn't coming off a hot streak, he was motivated for a huge fight in near his home and came to fight. Mosley was a great win, clear decision over a HOF near his prime and showed multiple layers to the KING's game. Gomez was part of the doubleheader to build up the Margo fight, while Bricks fight on the undercard. I'm not going to get into Margo, I feel he cheated and that's I have to say on that. Jennings for the WBO was crap, I'll admit that. Clottey in MSG on the other hand, was a legit fight against a guy who almost beat Margarito before he broke his hands. Clottey was tough and had his moments against a Cotto coming his first loss, losing uncle as trianer, and using his friend to run camp. Good win for him when he wasn't in a good place. Against Pacquiao, those problems were exposed and led to his downfall. At 154, Yuri Foreman was coming off a title win over Daniel Santos on the Pacquiao-Cotto undercard and just like Quintana, was a popular pick coming into the Bronx. Cotto dominated him BEFORE he hurt his knee and was clearly going to win. The Mayorga rematch was a money grab in Vegas with a name opponent to help TR add some shine to their new relationship with Showtime, who had just gotten the Pacquiao-Mosley PPV. The Margarito rematch was necessary to help get rid of the demons of that night in Vegas and to move on with is career. Fighting the P4P #1 guy in Floyd next, Cotto showed that there is plenty left in the tank and took him to very deep waters in a close loss. The Trout loss was hard to watch, the first fight where I felt he looked old. No snap on his punches, lost his enthusiasm very early in the fight, and the style employed didn't suit him. Enter Freddie Roach. Everyone said it wouldn't help Cotto to hire Roach, but he excels at teaching the skills that Cotto employed best during his prime. Footwork, offensive variety, and he's making MC use that left hook to the body. Everyone craps on the Delvin Rodriguez fight, but he was coming off back to back losses and D-Rod was barely outside the top 10 at 154. He destroyed him and signed on to make history against Sergio, a fight where many said and I quote "Even a 50% Martinez KTFO Cotto." He comes in the first round and it's immediately apparent Martinez is in with fighter on his level and that he must respect. He landed his left hook and that ended Sergio's night. He never regained his legs under him and battered, bloodied, and outboxed by Cotto. You always shit on Cotto and say how protected he is. This is not the resume of a protected fighter. He was tested early and often by TR. He was not moved slowly like these fighters are today. Cotto is KING of the MW's and he's here to stay.

ummmm.... i dunno genaro hernandez.... you know the top fighter in his division. what in floyd's 2nd year as a pro? at only 21. ever heard of a 6 ft junior lightweight who threw bombs named diego corrales? how many times did floyd fight for vacant belts? now cotto? lol vacant belts is biggest sign of a babied, protected fighter. the promoters set it up most of the time with crooked orgs for a belt grab. example david diaz vs. pacquiao how many times did top rank set up cotto for a vacant belt grab? what was the 1st belt he won from a defending champ? the crippled jew at 154? lol :lol1: Hernandez and Corrales?? That's who you have?? Killers for sure, the bane of boxing. You got me, what can I say. I guess they are better than a prime Margarito and Pacman (who Floyd himself didn't want any part of, with Pacman being mutual and retirement instead of Margarito).

i mean't to say marg-pac not diaz. diaz was a 135 champ. marg-pac was a total set up belt grab.

I shall bite. Who the fvck did Floyd fight that was soooo dangerous under top rank? ummmm.... i dunno genaro hernandez.... you know the top fighter in his division. what in floyd's 2nd year as a pro? at only 21. ever heard of a 6 ft junior lightweight who threw bombs named diego corrales? how many times did floyd fight for vacant belts? now cotto? lol vacant belts is biggest sign of a babied, protected fighter. the promoters set it up most of the time with crooked orgs for a belt grab. example david diaz vs. pacquiao how many times did top rank set up cotto for a vacant belt grab? what was the 1st belt he won from a defending champ? the crippled jew at 154? lol

even cherrypickers/protected fighters have great names on their resume. you have to fight somebody. fact. cotto was more babied by TR than they ever did floyd. fact. pac didn't even have a decent promoter til 10-12 years into his career. you realize that even some of cotto's toughest fights were cherrypicks? ex torres. hell even marg was. problem was cotto isn't as good as TR matchmakers thought so some of their cherrypicks backfired. pac and floyd has fought better opps than cotto. I shall bite. Who the fvck did Floyd fight that was soooo dangerous under top rank?

you have no problem with Cotto defending the lineal MW title against another MW at 155? good lawd i don't mind as long as it's a good 154 guy. we shouldn't have these super/junior divisions anyway. 112, 126, 135, 147, 160, 175, cruiser and heavy. that's all we need. pac has been fighting 140 guys at 147. but i think that's a money issue. for some reason 147 up makes more $$$$ than 140 down. it's weird.

jmm and provodnikov would be interesting because marquez has good punching power and can oubox ruslan. while ruslan always comes foward and always throws bombs. the ggg vs cotto fight looks interesting as well, but cotto would have to keep moving for the full 12 rds and that i dont see happening not in this stage on cottos carreer or age. ggg would have to apply pressure and chase cotto while landing bombs of his own.