Would Tyson been "the baddest man on the planet" if...

No way From what I've read and interviews I've seen, cus was very philosophical and studied the psychology of a fighter. Tyson (despite his look) was a very frightened young man, cus taught him how to embrace fear and use it. Without cus, Tyson would prob have been in jail.

No is the simple answer. You see, Cus wasn't much of a trainer for Mike, a lot of the work came from Rooney but Cus was a father figure and a philosopher. He told Tyson, time and time again that he would be a great heavyweight, could Manny or any other trainer have done something like that? I highly doubt it.

My take on it .his legacy wouldn't be the same if CUs wasn't the one who shaped and molded him in his teenage years. the Tyson that world knows was the perfect combination of so many factors and CUs was a huge part whether it was the love that he showed Mike not just as a trainer but a de facto father his guidance and fighting philosophy. . Mikes whole in ring persona was what CUs created. With Emanuel behind the wheel Ttson would have been a different fighter. I don't know if he would have been considered one of the greatest ever or a journeyman but he wouldn't be the same as we know him today just my take. Really JFSTD 26 this is a comment that you red bar. At least red bar when it's actually deserves it. Your such a f@g and lame. Do this site a favor spit out the Matthyse & Lara semen from your mouth. turn off your computer take the last $20 out of your bank and buy a hooker ( probably male ). You need it. Your a total joke not just on this site but most likely in real life too.

No. Cus is the perfect trainer for mike. Every ounce of skill, ability, mental game and physical attribute that mike could ever or potentially brought in the game was unleashed by cus and more. When he(cus) died, it's all downhill for mike from then on, everybody knows that by now.

Tyson said himself that he didn't even expect living into his late twenties, let alone have success in boxing. Without Cus, he would have either ended up dead at an early age or in prison for most if not all of his life. He was bad regardless, you can say. The interesting thing about Tyson is that he is actually an intelligent person who could have done much better in life had he had a better background and upbringing. We can just be happy for him that he is doing well today and managed to turn his life around at a later stage and reform himself. I think that shows his true inner strength. True ... But that's not to say he couldn't have found that same guidance in another trainer of Cus' caliber had he hypothetically been born in a different region or even a different era all together ... My question is, is the gameplan/style Cus chose for tyson the only way it could've worked? and was Cus the only guy who could've "made" him who he was... Or was the style Cus chose for Tyson the obvious choice and another elite trainer could've gotten similar results ? ...

Tyson said himself that he didn't even expect living into his late twenties, let alone have success in boxing. Without Cus, he would have either ended up dead at an early age or in prison for most if not all of his life. He was bad regardless, you can say. The interesting thing about Tyson is that he is actually an intelligent person who could have done much better in life had he had a better background and upbringing. We can just be happy for him that he is doing well today and managed to turn his life around at a later stage and reform himself. I think that shows his true inner strength.

That's the point of the thread ... Did Cus "make" Tyson or could he have been molded by any trainer of Cus' stature ... Was Tyson such a "freak" that the trainer didn't really matter. I'm inclined to believe the latter. Tyson was born under complex circumstances that, when coupled with his mental and emotional instability, as well as his love of violence, couldn't have lead to him being anything other than him either being a professional fighter or somebody serving a life sentence. I think any trainer of competence would've been able to channel his focus into a singular goal. That said, keeping him there is another story entirely. I'm not sure that anybody would've been able to prevent his self-destruction.

I'm saying would it have been possible at all under another trainer ? There aren't too many options stylewise for a 5'11 heavyweight. A tyson/frazier style is pretty much the only option.

It was not all boxing between Mike and Cus, He was the heavyweight champion at 19 what else can you ask for? how bad can tyson be more than what he was? theres nothing wrong with mikes style, all is his attitude and thats when cus was not around anymore that his career gone spiraling down. close this thread already no other trainer can do anything with mike. That's the point of the thread ... Did Cus "make" Tyson or could he have been molded by any trainer of Cus' stature ... Was Tyson such a "freak" that the trainer didn't really matter.

Yep, that's very interesting and a way of looking at things I haven't encountered yet. I guess I was quick to swallow the romanticised version of Cus... One thing is certain though, he did well to fire Atlas. Not because to turn a blind eye to Mike's attempts at his niece.. But just because the guy is a complete tool! :lol1:

But hang o a minute, wasn't Tyson "right on track" and the picture of everything good when Cus was with him? I always thought he went off the rails WITHOUT Cus! That's a common argument, and you could certainly argue that he was "on track" when Cus was alive, but I'd vehemently disagree. Dude wasn't on track at all, he was still going back to Brooklyn to rob people with his old group of friends on the weekends, not to mention that whole incident with Teddy Atlas's niece which, instead of leading to disciplinary action being taken against Mike, instead led to Teddy Atlas being fired. Cus was a wise guy when it comes to boxing, but he was also a bitter and selfish prick determined to "get back" at boxing. He was willing to sacrifice anybody or anything so long as it meant Tyson would become a success, so he ended up looking the other way while Tyson ran rampant under his nose. None of this stuff was as bad as his public meltdown after Cus died, but by that time it was irrelevant because Cus was responsible for the seed being planted in the first place. He created a vacuum in which Tyson could do whatever-the-f*ck he wanted and face no repercussions for his actions so long as he continued to progress both professionally and in the gym. Though it should be noted that I'm not entirely sure things would've turned out any different even if Tyson did have a different trainer like OP is asking. Truthfully, Tyson's issues are entirely mental and always have been. He was born to be a conqueror, but he was also born to destroy himself, so who knows? He could've reigned longer if more disciplined by his trainer, but he also could've let his mental issues be his undoing yet again. We'll never know and, frankly, that's what's so fascinating about him. We love a flawed character study.

Tyson would've been "the baddest man on the planet" regardless of who it was that developed him or manned his corner. You could see it in the guy's eyes during his prime - He was born with a colossal chip on his shoulder, a severe inferiority complex, a hatred for his fellow man, and a predisposition for unmitigated violence. IDGAF who trained him, Tyson is Tyson - That's what made him so special. He was born to be a giant among men. That said, if someone other than Cus trained him he might've lasted longer at the top. Other trainers likely wouldn't have let Tyson get away with half of the sh*t that Cus let him slide with. That could've ended up with a more disciplined and responsible Tyson that could've dominated for much longer than the version we actually got. But hang o a minute, wasn't Tyson "right on track" and the picture of everything good when Cus was with him? I always thought he went off the rails WITHOUT Cus!

Tyson would've been "the baddest man on the planet" regardless of who it was that developed him or manned his corner. You could see it in the guy's eyes during his prime - He was born with a colossal chip on his shoulder, a severe inferiority complex, a hatred for his fellow man, and a predisposition for unmitigated violence. IDGAF who trained him, Tyson is Tyson - That's what made him so special. He was born to be a giant among men. That said, if someone other than Cus trained him he might've lasted longer at the top. Other trainers likely wouldn't have let Tyson get away with half of the sh*t that Cus let him slide with. That could've ended up with a more disciplined and responsible Tyson that could've dominated for much longer than the version we actually got.

Cus not only trained Tyson he protected him from the outside world..things happen for a reason and the perfect collision needs all the factors..take one away and you are just another guy in this world Truer words have never been spoken by Larry. :fing02:

If he was born in Detroit and Emanuel Steward happened to stumble upon him instead of D'amato ? Would his raw talent have still prevailed if a different style was implanted early on ? Or did he have to come up under Cus in order for him to be who he was ... Where would he have ended up under another trainer ? : World champ Journeyman Contender Jail ... No Emanuel worked good with tall fighters jab right hold . Cus Amato was peek a boo slip bob and weave style that benefits short stocky fighters. Tyson problem was himself lack of discipline no training and Don King distraction

No way. Mike's image came from Cus D'amato who hated the boxing world. He had been sticked up by the moneymen in the world of boxing, and wanted to create his boy. a boy who didn't give a shyt just like Cus didn't and they were going to cause havoc to the traditional boxing world. No one else would have done that to mike, because they wouldn't have that same burning flame as Cus did. Read Mike's book and you'll see what I mean. Exactly. Mike Tyson was the absolute embodiment of the teachings of Cus D'Amato.

No way. Mike's image came from Cus D'amato who hated the boxing world. He had been sticked up by the moneymen in the world of boxing, and wanted to create his boy. a boy who didn't give a shyt just like Cus didn't and they were going to cause havoc to the traditional boxing world. No one else would have done that to mike, because they wouldn't have that same burning flame as Cus did. Read Mike's book and you'll see what I mean.

It was not all boxing between Mike and Cus, He was the heavyweight champion at 19 what else can you ask for? how bad can tyson be more than what he was? theres nothing wrong with mikes style, all is his attitude and thats when cus was not around anymore that his career gone spiraling down. close this thread already no other trainer can do anything with mike.

Stewart would not be a great fit for Tyson at all I didn't mean steward in particular I meant any other big name trainer ... I should've clarified that.

Cus not only trained Tyson he protected him from the outside world..things happen for a reason and the perfect collision needs all the factors..take one away and you are just another guy in this world