Cuauhtemoc1520's take on this weekend 6/14/2014

Andrade vs Rose: This is the type of match up that upsets me. Who thought that Rose was remotely ready to face someone like Andrade? It was such a one sided fight, and I honestly thought that it should have been stopped about 2 rounds before it actually was. Rose did nothing, he put his ear muffs on and just stood there for Andrade to tee off on him. Not taking any credit away from Andrade because he did what he had to do against a fighter like Rose, but that was just awful to watch. Algerie vs Provodnikov: I was talking on here about this fight, and I predicted that it would be a very difficult fight for the Russian. After the end of the first round, I thought I would look stupid..lol. He caught Algerie with a great left hook, but that was it. I thought Algerie boxed beautifully from pretty much the 4th round on, and wasn't getting hit often with those hard shots from the first round. This is one of those fights that comes down to taste in boxing style. I'm sure the fans of the brawler, action fighter are upset by this. Then there's the boxing purists who appreciate what Algerie did. For me, I have said many times that boxing is NOT fighting. In boxing you can't elbow, knee, kick, throw people on the ground, etc. It's a limited sport, that only allows you to hit people with your fists from the waist up. That's what makes boxing so beautiful, the fact we have different style even in a limited sport.We have fighters like Provodkikov who is a pressure fighter, brawler. Then we have fighters like Algerie who seem to glide on the canvas a pure boxer who has no power but uses his feet to equalize his deficiencies. Like him or not, Algerie did an amazing job in getting up twice off the canvas, having a badly swollen eye, and boxing for 12 rounds. He showed heart, determination and poise in not getting flustered after the initial shock of getting clobbered the way he did. Anyone who's ever been knocked down, knows how bad that can be mentally on a fighter. I had the fight 114-112 for Algerie, and I'm glad the refs agreed with me. Nacho Berenstein after the 3rd Pac fight said that he may have to change his coaching because it seemed the judges no longer appreciated the art of boxing. Well Algerie brought it back, and the judges in NY seemed to disagree with him. Boxing in the end is about hitting and not getting hit. We cannot turn into an unsophisticated boxing crowd and just want blood. There has to be room for both, because this is what boxing is about, styles. This is coming from someone that fought more like Provodnikov and teaches a very aggressive style. That doesn't mean you can't appreciate what a fighter like Algerie has done. For coming to boxing so late, having zero amateur experience, his footwork is amazing. If I had to critique his performance, I would say that he should learn to hold more on the ropes, and not just put those muffs on and take punches. He should also mix in some more off speed shots more, he did it once in a while but mix in a hard right hand behind all those jabs and touch hooks he was doing. Outside of that, he did a great job, and congrats to him. As far as Provodnikov, he showed what he is, a limited brawler. No head movement, no body work, and little to no defense. I'm surprised that Roach didn't really push him to work the body more, but in his defense I think that eye had something to do with it. I think Ruslan saw the eye, and wanted to target it all night. He was loading up with the hook and over hand right, which is basically all he has. There's a reason Herrera outboxed him, and he will have a very tough time with anyone who is a good boxer in that weight. Also on a side note. HBO announcers are officially the worst in the game. If it wasn't for Andre Ward, we wouldn't have gotten any insight to what was happening in this fight. They were building up Provodnikov like he was some super hero, all the while disrespecting Algerie, with the exception of Ward. I used to like Max Kellerman, he was once an announcer who commentated about the match, and now has become an "expert" on boxing preaching to the masses. I really wish he would just shut up. Anyway, props to Algerie for a fantastic, gutsy performance.

Comments (20)

pac outlanded marquez in almost every round just like algeri. what's the difference? it was a little closer in connects? i didn't know there was a formula for how many punches a hard punch is worth compared to a light punch. according to a lot of people on here algeri landed more therefore he won. same reasoning doesn't apply for other fights though. if pac's name was algeri the i love boxers fan club would say he kept marquez at bay and outworked/outlanded/busted up marquez while only occasionally getting hit and taking no damage. that's not boxing! pac was schooled! boxing is algeri on the ropes taking big shots/getting busted up/and landing feather punches that did no damage. clearly one is better than the other. We must have watched two different fights then. Because Algerie wasn't just on the ropes taking big shots. As a matter of fact, Ruslan didn't land many big shots after that first round, and the one's he did land were far and few between. It's the reason Algerie managed to go a full 12 rounds against a huge puncher like Ruslan. The Pac vs Marquez fight was completely different. That's just not a good analogy, sorry.

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

Do you consider MMA "real" fighting? I consider it a much more realistic approximation of fighting than boxing, if only because the combatants can "take it to the ground." Any real fight I ever witnessed (or partook in) wound up with the fighters tangled up in some way. If one guy has any boxing experience, he tends to start a fight off applying his skills. If the other guy has any fighting sense at all, but less skill than the boxer, he grabs and things get real messy, real fast. One of the things that makes boxing so cool as a sport is that it's a cleaner form of combat. It's the main reason why I prefer watching it over MMA. Like you said, it's the closest thing to real hand to hand combat in the street. When the UFC began, it was brutal. No weight classes, almost no rules. I just think when you incorporate any type of grappling, it changes the dynamics of a fight. You need physical strength to master that, as well as skill. In boxing, how much you bench, or how many muscles you have is pretty much irrelevant.

11y ago

SplitSecond

Great post...I'm laughing at these guys saying Algeri "ran" all night. The kid used excellent footwork and natural athletic ability to move around the ring, meanwhile landing tons of crisp jabs and solid right hands and even uppercuts and body shots. Everyone wants to see the knock out but nobody seems to appreciate real boxing anymore. he did run, throwing those pitty pat punches isn't offense, even for a guy like algieri, he showed with some vicious left hooks and some people also mentioned some body shot that looked like if he landed that all night, provodnikov would be in a world of hurt, but instead he fell into the pitty pat-move away tactic, which is basically being on the complete defensive

11y ago

SplitSecond

provodnikov looked lazy is all i really remember while watching the fight, was a boring fight, didn't pay much attention, did notice ruslan was headhunting, and badly, and i've noticed before it's a weakness of his, with the punching power this guy has, he fights like abraham, minus the bursts of offense atleast once a round i thought algieri would outbox ruslan as long as it lasted but eventually ruslan would ko him, didn't happen, so he lost on the cards, he didn't really fight like he wanted to win, entire fight didn't feel much urgency from him as he lost like 4 rd's in a row

11y ago

Jsmooth9876

11y ago

Ray_Corso

Number one his damaged eye dictated his actions! He RAN! He didn't use lateral movement to set up combos or dictate Rock's movement. The bottom line is that Rock looked like he weighed 160lbs instead 148lbs. He was much slower and deliberate in this fight than in others. Chris did no damage at all, his punches were all thrown "moving away"!!! If anyone thinks this is what boxing should be you better not but two of these guys together because people will need gallons of coffee to get through a night. I give Chris honors in bravery and guts but when powder punching is scored one to one with meaningful shots your going to see pro boxing get closer and closer to the amaeur style and that style .....listen to me......."doesn't pay"! This wasn't Willie Pep or Ray Leonard it was a fighter with a damaged eye that did his best to survive against a fighter who looked bored and over weight. The fighters can't be blamed but the matchmakers need to be brought up on "ripping ticket holders off"! The Jr. Middle bout should have gotten the promoters and matchmakers ARRESTED! Lastly neither one of these guys are any where near great fighters/boxers regardless of this bout! Anyone who thought that lil' Rock was an ultimate talent with all kinds of skills is a moron! Same for Chris, a good boxer with no power who comes to the ring in shape and tries to win. They were complete opposites and the distance between them was to much to bring a competitive bout forward. Physically the distance was to much too!!! Both fights were terrible match ups! Ray Corso

11y ago

daggum

Not really, that's just over simplifying it and not looking at the detailed picture. In the JMM vs Pac fight, it was razor close. In this one, outside of the first round, Ruslan was out landed by a landslide in the next 9 rounds. You can make the argument of hard shots vs pitty pat shots, but it was not even close how much more Algerie was landing than him. Also, those shots are not as light as some think...lol Getting hit with 8 oz gloves, for 12 rounds by a pro boxer isn't pitty pat. Sure he wasn't bringing the power like Ruslan was, but he landed some nice right hands and left hooks in that fight. Also Ruslan's head is made of concrete. pac outlanded marquez in almost every round just like algeri. what's the difference? it was a little closer in connects? i didn't know there was a formula for how many punches a hard punch is worth compared to a light punch. according to a lot of people on here algeri landed more therefore he won. same reasoning doesn't apply for other fights though. if pac's name was algeri the i love boxers fan club would say he kept marquez at bay and outworked/outlanded/busted up marquez while only occasionally getting hit and taking no damage. that's not boxing! pac was schooled! boxing is algeri on the ropes taking big shots/getting busted up/and landing feather punches that did no damage. clearly one is better than the other.

11y ago

CubanGuyNYC

There's a reason I brought this up. Training with more and more MMA fighters, I have come to understand the sport better and better. I understand how physical strength plays a huge part in MMA and not so much in boxing. Obviously power is an asset you would like to have, but you don't need to a KO puncher to be a great fighter. Not that Algerie is a great fighter, but he showed that there's more than one way to skin a cat. He boxed a much stronger, aggressive fighter who wants to hurt you. Algerie got on his bike and just moved beautifully, and really took it to him for most of the fight. You can eat raw meat, you can grow up in Siberia, you can be as intimidating as you can possibly be in a sport full of intimidating men. That won't guarantee you a win, because ultimately skill wins over toughness, even toughness is a major part of the sport and Algerie showed both. Do you consider MMA "real" fighting? I consider it a much more realistic approximation of fighting than boxing, if only because the combatants can "take it to the ground." Any real fight I ever witnessed (or partook in) wound up with the fighters tangled up in some way. If one guy has any boxing experience, he tends to start a fight off applying his skills. If the other guy has any fighting sense at all, but less skill than the boxer, he grabs and things get real messy, real fast. One of the things that makes boxing so cool as a sport is that it's a cleaner form of combat. It's the main reason why I prefer watching it over MMA.

11y ago

KingTito

Great post. I predicted Ruslan to steam roll Algieri, and I was way off.

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

the art of boxing is whatever your fav fighter happens to be doing at that moment marquez gets outlanded in the third pac fight but lands the heavier blows-that's boxing algeri outlands ruslan with pitty-pat shots while ruslan lands the heavier blows-that's boxing Not really, that's just over simplifying it and not looking at the detailed picture. In the JMM vs Pac fight, it was razor close. In this one, outside of the first round, Ruslan was out landed by a landslide in the next 9 rounds. You can make the argument of hard shots vs pitty pat shots, but it was not even close how much more Algerie was landing than him. Also, those shots are not as light as some think...lol Getting hit with 8 oz gloves, for 12 rounds by a pro boxer isn't pitty pat. Sure he wasn't bringing the power like Ruslan was, but he landed some nice right hands and left hooks in that fight. Also Ruslan's head is made of concrete.

11y ago

daggum

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

I dunno if the HBO group is the worst in boxing, but I can say that I really like listening to Andre Ward. With all due respect to Roy Jones Jr, he's just painful to listen to. Ward is the only one worth listening to. Like I said, Max is getting so out of control annoying. He used to be a guy that talked about boxing, now he's preaching to everyone like he's an expert on it. The way he goes back and forth with Roy Jones is hard to listen to and Roy seems to put him in his place over and over. andrade is getting unnecessary backlash for looking so dominant.........the guys jab looked crisp and magnificent. his hand speed and combinations looked crisp and magnificent (we don't even see fighters throw 4 and 5 punch combinations anymore but he was doing it at will) that jab was like a power punch. (crazy) the jab broke his nose............ people act as if rose was coming off 10 losses..........i put him in the same boat as Adama. I didn't take credit from him, but Rose didn't do anything. Outside of the first and only right hand he landed in the 1st round, that was it. He just covered up, and decided he wan't going to fight.

11y ago

Godsfly

andrade is getting unnecessary backlash for looking so dominant.........the guys jab looked crisp and magnificent. his hand speed and combinations looked crisp and magnificent (we don't even see fighters throw 4 and 5 punch combinations anymore but he was doing it at will) that jab was like a power punch. (crazy) the jab broke his nose............ people act as if rose was coming off 10 losses..........i put him in the same boat as Adama.

11y ago

GlassJoe

I dunno if the HBO group is the worst in boxing, but I can say that I really like listening to Andre Ward. With all due respect to Roy Jones Jr, he's just painful to listen to.

11y ago

JmH_Reborn

It felt like I was watching a rematch between Morales and Maidana when Erik's eye was grotesque. I personally score it 113-113. Like the first PAC/JMM fight, Algeri win more rounds, but the knockdowns did him in. I had it 7-5. I think in a rematch, with both eyes, Algeri has a wider win

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

exactly the person i have in mind when i mention skilled brawler...can't go wrong with those matchups Chico-JLC, Rafa-Izzy were a classic matchups of two skilled brawlers deciding to duke it out I also think GGG is in that mode if he gets a little better head movement on the inside. It was a matter of time for Rulsan to lose, I'm just surprised it was Algerie who did it. If that kid had power, he would be a super star.

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

the best is skilled brawler vs skilled brawler IMO I'm glad you brought this up. You understand there is such a thing as a skilled brawler, someone like Chavez Sr was a master boxer on the inside. Some fans don't know that even exists. Ruslan isn't one of those guys. He has no head movement, no defense with his hands and arms, doesn't take angles inside, and is just looking to land the big shot. One thing he does well is cut off the ring, but where's the body work?

11y ago

Suavecito80

Simply put, the boxer vs. brawler matchup is the best clash of styles in boxing, IMO. I really enjoyed that fight. I also had it 114-112 Algeiri. I think people give Ruslan too much credit for coming forward and landing an occasional hard shot. It's lazy scoring./QUOTE] Lazy and the easiest way to score for somebody that knows dick about boxing. Algeiri won that fight it was close but he won it.

11y ago

Bigg_Rigg

11y ago

Cuauhtmoc1520

Enjoyable post, Cuauh. Lots of stuff that can be commented on. I just want to focus on the above. I'm glad you brought up what I consider a consistently overlooked reality. I've loved boxing since I was a kid. It's certainly a great fighting skill to have, and I'd rather know how to box than not know how to box, but, ultimately, it's not real fighting. That statement is enough to spark a long-ass debate, but I'd like to focus on a smaller wrinkle. If one accepts that boxing isn't real fighting, that the rules are too restrictive for that, then one has to accept the pure boxer style. The dudes that refuse to accept this think boxing is pure fighting. Fighting is just one aspect, an obviously exciting aspect of a larger sport. There's a reason I brought this up. Training with more and more MMA fighters, I have come to understand the sport better and better. I understand how physical strength plays a huge part in MMA and not so much in boxing. Obviously power is an asset you would like to have, but you don't need to a KO puncher to be a great fighter. Not that Algerie is a great fighter, but he showed that there's more than one way to skin a cat. He boxed a much stronger, aggressive fighter who wants to hurt you. Algerie got on his bike and just moved beautifully, and really took it to him for most of the fight. You can eat raw meat, you can grow up in Siberia, you can be as intimidating as you can possibly be in a sport full of intimidating men. That won't guarantee you a win, because ultimately skill wins over toughness, even toughness is a major part of the sport and Algerie showed both.

11y ago