Had Calzaghe not ducked America

CraigM, interesting that you forgot to mention Hopkins pricing himself out when the fight was fought of years before they got in the ring. Calzaghe didn't need America, if you can sell over 50000 tickets at home to amazing audiences why travel to sell 20000 to usually quiet ones. When I went to Vegas for Hopkins fight it kinda proved a point as the British fans still outweighed the Americans about 3:1 Super middle is probably our biggest division so will always make loads of money here. Hattons was better for overseas fights, I'm guessing you think ward should have to travel too? Nothing stopping people flying to England ;) Joe needed America to gain more recognition, to fight bigger fights. He certainly needed it, if he was serious about wanting Roy back then. Joe selling 50,000 tickets was great. But globally it wasn't a huge fight. A big fight in America is usually at a casino holding around 16,000. But it goes out to millions of people through PPV etc. Joe admitted in 2004, that he needed to fight in America, and up at 175 to get recognition and bigger fights. Yet for some reason, he never followed it through.

Easy to say that after the fight,but before he was the unified champion, the mini Tyson and was the favorite to beat Calzaghe..Hind site is 20/20 That it makes use of perspective doesn't make it inaccurate...

Unlike Joe Calzaghe, when Ricky Hatton reached the pinnacle of his career, he called out the No. 1 pound-for-pound champion who was in a weight division above, moved up in weight & took on a career defining fight against the very best in Mayweather. He also had the courage to take on a vicious looking Pacquiao. Sure he lost, but as was once said 'in great attempts it is glorious even to fail'. Calzaghe claimed the vacant title in 1997. It took him NINE years to unify the titles with fights against Lacy & Kessler. The gap speaks for itself. And really, wasn't 168 an ultra weak division anyway?? My point: Roy Jones Jr was available to fight at 175 from the point Calzaghe claimed the WBO strap at 168 in 1997, to the point he was knocked out in 02 by Tarver. Instead of Calzaghe calling Roy Jones Jr out for a superfight at 175, he was interviewed in those years and openly admitted that he did not want to RISK that fight. I'm of the opinion that if Calzaghe had entered the grand American stage during his plastic reign, he would've tasted defeat like his compatriots in Khan & Hatton. Calzaghe ducked the big fights: He wanted nothing to do with a prime Jones Jr. There's open transcripts of him admitting that he basically ducked the fight altogether. Then he would only fight Hopkins at 43, and even then he scraped just a SD with his dad telling him he had lost the fight. If you look at their reactions to the decision, I think it's clear that they knew in many ways it was a gift. A prime Hopkins repeats what he did to Calzaghe in round 1 for the full 12. It goes on. In the words of Jim Lampley, 'Calzaghe BLATANTLY ducked Glen Johnson'. He wanted nothing to do with Taylor. Ducked Pavlik to fight a shell of Jones. How about the Tarver negotiations? Ended with NOTHING. Winky Wright negotiations? Ended with NOTHING. So he retires undefeated. So did Sven Ottke. Just sayin'. interesting that you forgot to mention Hopkins pricing himself out when the fight was fought of years before they got in the ring. Calzaghe didn't need America, if you can sell over 50000 tickets at home to amazing audiences why travel to sell 20000 to usually quiet ones. When I went to Vegas for Hopkins fight it kinda proved a point as the British fans still outweighed the Americans about 3:1 Super middle is probably our biggest division so will always make loads of money here. Hattons was better for overseas fights, I'm guessing you think ward should have to travel too? Nothing stopping people flying to England ;)

Berry Picker, Go suck a fat one w your biab. Its a sport. Guys that want to fight each other, do. Guys that don't, make excuses. It would be great if things were that simple. But they're not. Like I keep mentioning, boxing is a business. There's lots of politics in boxing that prevent fights from happening. It's not just due to the fighters.

Berry Picker, Where was Roys interest in fighting Joe? oh yea, there wasn't. Roy hardly had any interest in fighting Joe. But that's not what we're discussing is it? We're looking from Joe's perspective. We're discussing the fact that Joe didn't pursue the likes of Roy back in the late 90's/early 00's. Why would the best fighter in the world, who was the unified champ at 175, have shown interest in fighting a European 168, WBO belt holder? The onus was on Joe to push for the fight.

Berry Picker, Quote: Exactly. Dudes want ALL the hometown advantages. Why not meet in a neutral country? american fighters could easily agree to that. But they rarely if ever do. Boxing is a business. Do you seriously think that the fighters have a big say in who and where they fight? The promoters and the networks discuss where the best place to host the fights will be. They discuss PR, promotion, merchandise and the PPV and gate splits etc. It takes a lot of work behind the scenes to make a big fight. Go suck a fat one w your biab. Its a sport. Guys that want to fight each other, do. Guys that don't, make excuses. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Berry Picker, Quote: Its the same. Dude was sparked out. Roy obviously chose the easiest hw to "make history" with. It's not even remotely the same. Ruiz was knocked out at HW when he was young. Roy was nearly 40, and had suffered three consecutive defeats 3-4 years before he fought Joe. He hadn't won a fight at top level for 5 years. He was finished at the top. Ruiz had a belt. Joe had no interest in fighting Roy. He said so twice in his autobiography, that was published in 2007, and also in an interview in 2008. Completely different circumstances. Where was Roys interest in fighting Joe? oh yea, there wasn't. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Berry Picker, Exactly. Dudes want ALL the hometown advantages. Why not meet in a neutral country? american fighters could easily agree to that. But they rarely if ever do. Boxing is a business. Do you seriously think that the fighters have a big say in who and where they fight? The promoters and the networks discuss where the best place to host the fights will be. They discuss PR, promotion, merchandise and the PPV and gate splits etc. It takes a lot of work behind the scenes to make a big fight.

No, it's where protected US fighters refuse to leave (with so called stars blatantly roiding up). There's a difference. A fighter can be the best anywhere but he's forced to go to his opponent's backyard when his opponent is too cowardly to leave, even when a good financial deal is on the table. The football analogy doesn't work because there's money both sides of the Atlantic in boxing. But hey, karma comes in the form of the new wave of European fighters, KO-artists, no judging needed. The future of US boxing is European and Mexican, the next generation of star names and it's just what those arrogant fans who refuse to see boxing as a global sport deserve. Boxing history proves that the majority of the best fighters were either based in America, or they travelled there. Go and look at today's top fighters. Bar the odd exception, they're all in America. Martinez and Manny have moved there. Kovalev has just gone over. Everybody who wants to make it at the top goes over. The biggest promoters are GBP and Arum. The biggest networks are HBO and Showtime. Vegas casinos host the majority of the biggest fights etc. It's the way it is.

Berry Picker, Its the same. Dude was sparked out. Roy obviously chose the easiest hw to "make history" with. It's not even remotely the same. Ruiz was knocked out at HW when he was young. Roy was nearly 40, and had suffered three consecutive defeats 3-4 years before he fought Joe. He hadn't won a fight at top level for 5 years. He was finished at the top. Ruiz had a belt. Joe had no interest in fighting Roy. He said so twice in his autobiography, that was published in 2007, and also in an interview in 2008. Completely different circumstances.

Joe fought 2moreatg than Floyd and he is undefeated. Got to respect joe.

Berry Picker, No, they weren't. Joe was champ, making money. Just as hop and Roy. All this "you need to come to america to make it", is bs. The only people who really believe that crap are ignorantly arrogant Americans. The title is "World" champ. Not american champ. Roy and Bernard were unified champs. Nearly all of their competition were based in America. Roy fought on HBO, and Hopkins fought on HBO and Showtime with King. They didn't need to leave America. Once again, Joe's circumstances were different. Roy was considered the best fighter on the planet. Which meant that he held all the cards. He had the power in negotiations. Joe was relatively unknown, and fought in a weak division, holding a lightly regarded belt. Boxing is a business. Joe needed to travel to enhance his career. But Roy and Bernard didn't need to. Throughout history, many, many top fighters have travelled to America to progress their careers. The majority of the worlds biggest fights are staged in America, and it's always been that way. The biggest fights have nearly all been in Vegas at the casinos.

Weebler I, and Mayweather was in no hurry to travel to the UK when Hatton was the man at 140 after beating Tszyu, "I ain't goin to England" was the cry from little Floyd. These cnuts all love their home advantage for good reason, but none more self-entitled than the fans of US fighters who think it's their God-given right to fight at home with pet refs, and promoters jobbing opponents with corrupt judging. "You got to come to America to fight" - Sturm had the right idea after getting robbed, he never went back. A top American fighter who fights for the worlds biggest promoters, on TV's biggest networks etc, doesn't need to travel. It's always been the same. Do you think Mike Tyson in the 80's would have come to England to fight Frank Bruno? Why would Floyd have come for Hatton, when he didn't need to?

Dirk Diggler UK, Ricky Hatton had 40 fights before he fought Tsyzu. Only then did he go across to America and he was given big money to do so because of his following. It's easy to say Calzaghe should have "worked his way up the rankings" but the guy was already a world champion and making good money in the UK. It's unrealistic to say he should go to America and make less with the hope of one day facing Jones which may have never happened anyway. I remember Steve Collins jumping in the ring after one of Roy's fights to call him out and he never got the fight. He was willing to go to America to fight Hopkins as early as 2002 but Bernard walked away from the deal. Joe wouldn't raise his profile by talking to the media and doing publicity stuff. Frank W has said that. He wasn't willing to push himself. It's ok to say he was a world champion, but he was unknown outside of Europe. He was a great fighter. But he fought in a weak division, defending a belt that wasn't respected or even ranked by the likes of the Ring magazine. You seem to be missing the point. Without doing what Ricky Hatton did, which was to raise his profile and move up a division, he was never going to get a shot at Roy. It's as simple as that. Now you've given valid reasons as to why he didn't, and I can see where you're coming from. I can see things from yours and Joe's perspective. It was a safer bet for him to stay at in Britain. I've no problem with it. But I'm just telling you that's why he never got the fight when it mattered. Steve Collins was overlooked in the mid 90's at 168, because Roy couldn't unify the division. So he moved up to 175 and Collins got left behind. Then in 99, when Collins got in the ring with Roy, HBO had no interest in making a fight between them. They wanted Roy to unify with Reggie Johnson instead, and that's what happened. But just because Roy wouldn't fight Collins, it didn't mean that he wouldn't have fought Joe if it made sense to him. Roy was happy to fight him in 2008, because it was his last shot at the top, with a good payday. But earlier on, Roy always had better options. So you can't use Collins as any sort of evidence to say that Roy wouldn't have fought Joe. The circumstances were different. With regards to Hopkins in 2002, again I don't believe it was a simple duck. Bernard fought at a different weight, and pulled out of the three fight deal. But Joe could have tried to have fought in America regardless. Every other top British fighter did.

Quote: Originally Posted by LarryXXX Hopkins nor Roy were jumping to fight him either to be fair and Mayweather was in no hurry to travel to the UK when Hatton was the man at 140 after beating Tszyu, "I ain't goin to England" was the cry from little Floyd. These cnuts all love their home advantage for good reason, but none more self-entitled than the fans of US fighters who think it's their God-given right to fight at home with pet refs, and promoters jobbing opponents with corrupt judging. "You got to come to America to fight" - Sturm had the right idea after getting robbed, he never went back. Exactly. Dudes want ALL the hometown advantages. Why not meet in a neutral country? american fighters could easily agree to that. But they rarely if ever do. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Hatton and Calzaghe can't become the best unless they come here. The reason Hatton and other foreign fighters come to the US is the same reason US soccer players go outside of the US to play-its where the best are. If a US player tries to become the best he can't do it just competeing in whatever the US soccer league is. I think we'd agree beating the Red Bulls is slightly less significant than beating Man U. Its not about home cooking its about competition. No, it's where protected US fighters refuse to leave (with so called stars blatantly roiding up). There's a difference. A fighter can be the best anywhere but he's forced to go to his opponent's backyard when his opponent is too cowardly to leave, even when a good financial deal is on the table. The football analogy doesn't work because there's money both sides of the Atlantic in boxing. But hey, karma comes in the form of the new wave of European fighters, KO-artists, no judging needed. The future of US boxing is European and Mexican, the next generation of star names and it's just what those arrogant fans who refuse to see boxing as a global sport deserve.

Berry Picker, Quote: How many years earlier was Ruiz destroyed when Roy fought him? How is that relevant to this discussion? Completely different circumstances. Ruiz was caught by Tua at HW. He then won a belt, and became a top 5 guy. Roy then moved up and beat him. How is that the same as Joe not wanting to fight a washed up Roy, who'd been knocked out twice, and was nearly 40, only to then change his mind and take the fight? Its the same. Dude was sparked out. Roy obviously chose the easiest hw to "make history" with. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Berry Picker, Quote: World" champs Hops and Roy could have fought in other parts of the world too you know? america isn't the world and never will be. Roy and Bernard never really had to leave America. Their circumstances were different to Joe's. No, they weren't. Joe was champ, making money. Just as hop and Roy. All this "you need to come to america to make it", is bs. The only people who really believe that crap are ignorantly arrogant Americans. The title is "World" champ. Not american champ. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Just shows how Hopkins was at the time that he thought he was getting $2m to fight Morrade bloody Hakker :lol1: He priced himself out of several fights back then including Roy Jones rematch and a James Toney fight which was virtually signed. Yeah he definitely priced himself out of fights. But it certainly wasn't because he was avoiding any fighters. In the end, however, he was the big winner.

http://www.secondsout.com/usa-boxing-news/usa-boxing-news/noskys-nuggets-hopkins-backed-into-corner Reportedly, Hopkins was to receive around $2 million for the Hakkar fight. The middleweight champion apparently believed that amount was for him. However, he was only recently made aware that the $2 million was not his take but that he would have to pay his promoter, Don King, and Hakkar out of that money. This was deemed unsatisfactory by Hopkins and Showtime reportedly pulled the deal off the table. Ironically enough, in a press release on Tuesday night, the WBC still has the Hopkins-Hakkar fight listed as a go for August 17. A lot will have to change for that to hold up now. **** Calzaghe, by the way, will take on the unknown Miguel Jimenez on the 17th after deals to match the Welshman with dangerous fighters such as Antwun Echols and David Telesco fell through with eerily similar stories coming from both failed negotiations. Just shows how Hopkins was at the time that he thought he was getting $2m to fight Morrade bloody Hakker :lol1: He priced himself out of several fights back then including Roy Jones rematch and a James Toney fight which was virtually signed.