Post-2000 HW Top 10 Compared to Pre-2000 HW Top 10

There has been a lot of talk recently about Joe Frazier and his place amongst the all time greats, there has been talk of both Klitschkos beating Frazier and making Ali look a fool, which is why I decided to rank my top 10 heavyweights post and pre-2000. You guys can compare the two, post your own lists and let's have a nice, civilised discussion, between knowledgeable boxing fans. Post-2000 HW Rankings: 1. Wladimir Klitschko 2. Vitali Klitschko 3. Ruslan Chagaev 4. Nikolai Valuev 5. John Ruiz 6. Samuel Peter 7. Hasim Rahman 8. David Haye 9. Chris Byrd 10. Alexander Povetkin I've left out the likes of Lewis and Holyfield for obvious reasons. A lot of these names could easily be replaced with the likes of Adamek or even Toney, that's how thin it has been at the top. Of course it's a much smaller talent pool and sample but these are the modern fighters who are meant to be bigger, stronger and just more physically enhanced than the greats of the past. Pre-2000 HW Rankings: 1. Muhammad Ali 2. Joe Louis 3. George Foreman 4. Larry Holmes 5. Rocky Marciano 6. Joe Frazier 7. Evander Holyfield 8. Jack Dempsey 9. Jack Johnson 10. Lennox Lewis I would give almost any heavyweight in the second list a chance of stopping Wladimir, names such as Foreman, Frazier or Lewis could probably do it within 5 rounds. There are some names, such as Liston, Tyson and Bowe who couldn't make it into my top 10 who would be able to stop Wladimir, even so-called journeymen such as Shavers. This is not to disrespect Wladimir but his chin has been smashed into a million pieces by many fighters who don't even hit as hard as the ones I mentioned and who lack the required skill to work on the inside. There is no denying that both Klitschko has the power to hurt some of the guys with lesser chins, such as Holyfield, Lewis or Frazier. Vitali probably has the best chance but he is often slow and plodding, easily outworked or out skilled by the likes of Ali or Holmes but his power could tell against someone like Louis, or the very small guys in Dempsey and Marciano. None of the rest of the fighters post-2000 really have the skills or the chin or the heart to match the best pre-2000. That os a quite simplistic fact in my opinion. Haye may have the speed and power but does he have the will? Feel free to comment away.

Comments (20)

floyd mayweather has more snap on his punches than vitali by a country mile. does he hit harder? Because that's an accurate comparison.

12y ago

New_England

So have I. Obviously none of us felt the power of either person, but Dempsey definitely looked a much much more hurtful puncher than Peter - compared to fighters they were facing. His punches were also much more sharp and had more snap on them. floyd mayweather has more snap on his punches than vitali by a country mile. does he hit harder?

12y ago

LacedUp

nobody is saying he's a great fighter. i've seen every recorded dempsey fight to my knowledge, and all of peter's work that i need to / care to see. peter is a much bigger puncher. So have I. Obviously none of us felt the power of either person, but Dempsey definitely looked a much much more hurtful puncher than Peter - compared to fighters they were facing. His punches were also much more sharp and had more snap on them. Further to that, Peter has never stopped an elite fighter - his best stoppage win being Maskaev.. Even his knockdowns over Wlad were mostly flash knockdowns.

12y ago

New_England

I don't know what to say to this, maybe go and watch some clips of Dempsey? watch his fights again, you mean? to see if dempsey hits harder than sam peter? you need to go back to the film by the look of things.

12y ago

MisterHardtop

sam peter hits much harder than jack dempsey. I don't know what to say to this, maybe go and watch some clips of Dempsey?

12y ago

New_England

Joe Frazier is a poor man's Sam Peter :lol1: nobody is saying he's a great fighter. i've seen every recorded dempsey fight to my knowledge, and all of peter's work that i need to / care to see. peter is a much bigger puncher.

12y ago

LacedUp

sam peter hits much harder than jack dempsey. Joe Frazier is a poor man's Sam Peter :lol1:

12y ago

New_England

Well if you think I am crapping on the Klitschkos, then you obviously haven't read many of my previous posts. I've always respected the two and hold them in high regard. Am I crapping on the post 2000 era? Most definitely, outside of the brothers, there hasn't been a single heavyweight worthy of the title "champion", not one. Maybe you can refresh my memory. I agree, Vitali hasn't been outboxed in his era but if you read what you. yourself have highlighted, you will see I'm saying the likes of Ali can outbox him. So your whole point is mute. This thread was in response to the many threads that have popped up about how current heavyweights would be too much for heavyweights of the past but when you break it down and look at the top 10s alone, there is noway you can say anyone below the top 2 post-2000 can even hold a candle to the likes of Ali, Holmes etc. In terms of Wladimir, it is fair to say exhaustion had a huge roll to play in his stoppages but he was also dropped in those fights and badly hurt. Samuel Peter, who even you must admit probably hits a tenth as hard as the likes of Shavers, Tyson and Dempsey, had Wlad on the floor 3 times. sam peter hits much harder than jack dempsey.

12y ago

LacedUp

12y ago

LacedUp

Did you actually watch those fights? (Brewster and Purrity) Sanders is the only fighter to legitimately beat a Wlad that was not too tired to stand up. (I know it doesn't matter since a loss is a loss but it's the truth) Yes I've watched all three fights multiple times. Wlad legitimately lost all three times - It's no one elses fault than his own if he didn't come in the shape he should have been in. It was due to him being the worse fighter on the night all three times, nothing more, nothing less.

12y ago

MisterHardtop

I LOL'd at mute point reference and then when I got to the part where you said Peter hits 1/10th as hard as 180 lb Dempsey I remembered how utterly ignorant you are and how this is a waste of my time. You believe Samuel Peter hits harder than Dempsey? That is quite honestly a terrible point of view, how is that justified? When someone has naturally punching ability, weight is almost a non-issue, for example, Golovkin currently probably hits harder than most light-heavyweights, a prime Naseem Hamed probably hit harder than most lightweights and he didn't exactly have the physique of a puncher.

12y ago

Boxing_Goat

just go away. Did you actually watch those fights? (Brewster and Purrity) Sanders is the only fighter to legitimately beat a Wlad that was not too tired to stand up. (I know it doesn't matter since a loss is a loss but it's the truth)

12y ago

Boxing_Goat

12y ago

LacedUp

12y ago

MisterHardtop

100+ years of boxing talent vs. 14? Seems fair As I've quite clearly stated, I know it seems lopsided but this is in response to those who claim modern heavyweights would beat many of the greats of the past, one of their main reasons is advancement in sports nutrition and size. The fact that you have found this comparison ridiculous reflects just how asinine those comments are. Dempsey top 10? Nah. Why not? Before Ali, he was quite often ranked amongst the to 5, something like Louis, Johnson, Marciano, Dempsey and any of Tunney/Liston/Charles/Sullivan. Since Ali, the only true ATG heavyweights have been Foreman, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield and Lewis. Arguments can be made for Patterson, possibly Spinks, maybe Bowe. Dempsey has a great argument for a top 10, as do Tyson and Liston but I edged some of the other names.

12y ago

MisterHardtop

I half-way took this seriously until I read the highlighted parts. Lets start with Wladimir. He's been stopped 3 times in his losses. Two of those times was due to fatigue and not really because he got his 'chin smashed into a million pieces'. LOL! It should be noted that in his Sanders loss, it was a TKO and he was on his feet when the fight was stopped. Next, saying Vitali is slow and plodding is an insult to Foreman bro and Vitali has never been outworked or out skilled in a boxing match which includes a 14-2 title fight record. I can see the whole point of the thread is another attempt to crap on the Klitschko era once again seeing as how you have a full century of fighters listed in one column and just over a decade in the other. This crap is transparent. Why just not come right out and say, "I don't like or respect the Klitschko era", and save everyone the worthless read. (waiting on the reply saying how this has nothing to do with personal dislike for the Klitschko's or this era which doesn't include A) a black/african decended champ or B) an American champ, which will surely be complete lying BS) Well if you think I am crapping on the Klitschkos, then you obviously haven't read many of my previous posts. I've always respected the two and hold them in high regard. Am I crapping on the post 2000 era? Most definitely, outside of the brothers, there hasn't been a single heavyweight worthy of the title "champion", not one. Maybe you can refresh my memory. I agree, Vitali hasn't been outboxed in his era but if you read what you. yourself have highlighted, you will see I'm saying the likes of Ali can outbox him. So your whole point is mute. This thread was in response to the many threads that have popped up about how current heavyweights would be too much for heavyweights of the past but when you break it down and look at the top 10s alone, there is noway you can say anyone below the top 2 post-2000 can even hold a candle to the likes of Ali, Holmes etc. In terms of Wladimir, it is fair to say exhaustion had a huge roll to play in his stoppages but he was also dropped in those fights and badly hurt. Samuel Peter, who even you must admit probably hits a tenth as hard as the likes of Shavers, Tyson and Dempsey, had Wlad on the floor 3 times.

12y ago

Boxing_Goat

This is not to disrespect Wladimir but his chin has been smashed into a million pieces by many fighters who don't even hit as hard as the ones I mentioned and who lack the required skill to work on the inside. Vitali probably has the best chance but he is often slow and plodding, easily outworked or out skilled by the likes of Ali or Holmes but his power could tell against someone like Louis, or the very small guys in Dempsey and Marciano. I half-way took this seriously until I read the highlighted parts. Lets start with Wladimir. He's been stopped 3 times in his losses. Two of those times was due to fatigue and not really because he got his 'chin smashed into a million pieces'. LOL! It should be noted that in his Sanders loss, it was a TKO and he was on his feet when the fight was stopped. Next, saying Vitali is slow and plodding is an insult to Foreman bro and Vitali has never been outworked or out skilled in a boxing match which includes a 14-2 title fight record. I can see the whole point of the thread is another attempt to crap on the Klitschko era once again seeing as how you have a full century of fighters listed in one column and just over a decade in the other. This crap is transparent. Why just not come right out and say, "I don't like or respect the Klitschko era", and save everyone the worthless read. (waiting on the reply saying how this has nothing to do with personal dislike for the Klitschko's or this era which doesn't include A) a black/african decended champ or B) an American champ, which will surely be complete lying BS)

12y ago

bklynboy

wilder vs dempsey who wins? Let's see an all-time great bob and weaver with great speed against a wide-armed looping puncher (granted with power). I'll take the ATG bob and weaver with great speed (and great power).

12y ago

kiDynamite92

Liston should be on that list and so should Mike if you're talking about h2h.

12y ago

bklynboy

Dempsey top 10? Nah. Funny how Ray Arcel considered Jack Dempsey to be TOP 3-5 heavyweight of all -time. Arcel was in the fight game from Dempsey to Larry Holmes (was alive until Mike Tyson). He trained Barney Ross, Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran, James Braddock (Cinderella Man), Max Baer, Ezzard Charles and many others. Arcel was not the only one to rate Dempsey so high. At the very least Dempsey's a TOP 3-5 until 1960. Joe Louis Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Blackburn (Louis' trainer) and many others considered Jack Johnson to be better than Joe Louis until after Schmelling II. Jack Dempsey deserves to be considered an ATG and while he may not be a TOP 10 in everyone's book you're not overestimating him if you place him there. (in chronological order) 1900-1960 Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Joe Louis Sonny Liston 1960-present Muhammad Ali Joe Frazier George Foreman Larry Holmes Lennox Lewis Honorable Mentions - potential TOP 10 Harry Wills * Colored Champion Gene Tunney * (retired early) Rocky Marciano Mike Tyson Evander Holyfield WK

12y ago