Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

:lol1::lol1::lol1: Frazier not an ATG, but Wlad is? Byrd and Haye in the HOF? Why am I not surprised?

BUMP I encourage ALL readers to familiarise themselves with the arguments presented in this thread in response to continued appraisal of the boxer Joe Frazier lately.. Frazier is a bum at the foundation of the nut bag mythology. The mere reliance on this guy is enough to totally dismiss any nut bag.. This thread crushingly describes WHY and serves as a basis for why I should not need to re-explain myself time and again to the nut bag with a very poor memory.

You have yet to mention one fact, nor any anecdotal information and despite this you claim, due to something only you and your lover Welterschmaltz seem able to percieve, that modern heavyweights are vastly superior. You know how stupud you is? some people conveniently use only the facts that support their argument and disregaard the other ones....you don't even have those facts! To date you claim that: a) old methods of training were so vastly inferior...this despite the rounds fought, the condition of the fighters, and the many informed experienced trainers. Your objectvity? "I saw a tape in mom's basement!" Old methods of training were absolutely inferior. The rounds fought then actually detract from the importance of skills and powerful movements as it becomes more of an endurance based event. The notion also that more rounds = better conditioned boxers is also a total fallacy as I have myth busted on this very forum many many times before. Also it's a no brainer that there are more informed and experienced trainers today than ever before. Today's trainers concentrate on specialist aspects of a fighter like skills or S&C whereas in the past they were the same person. They are also likely to be more dedicated as they usually take on the role as their sole occupation. My objectivity? Boxers and trainers and sports scientists have taken all that had been learned before and continued to build on it from generation to generation producing superior athletes in the sport as time evolves. Also the talent pool for the sieve of competition has grown immeasurably. In every measurable aspect of an athletes conditioning in boxing, todays fighters leave past ones for dead. Even on a crude eye test we see what today looks like an ordinary school boy vs a modern elite athlete. Some specific examples of improvement? - Focus Mitts - Strength Training - HIIT training just to name a few, I have written many extensive articles on this issue already, as you are no doubt aware and have explained all of it in excrutiating detail with no credible argument tot he contrary which is to be expected because I cannot foresee how any argument is really possible! b) FIghters punch so much harder now. Again....proof? Firstly, can you prove that your favourites like Foreman, Shaver, Dempsey etc hit harder? Of course not intrinsically because we don't have them measured on pressure pads! So at BEST we can expect a stalemate. Secondly, common sense says that YOUR old favourites LOOK weaker in film and picture and fight much weaker looking opponents. Thirdly however, by backing up the visual evidence, the statistical evidence against your favourites is compelling, KO stats of Tyson, Lewis and both Klitschko's for example destroys anything from the pre-professional eras. Any denial of such proof is straight up nut baggery. c) fighters are in much better condition now....despite the facts which show a general decline in how fighters are prepared, you claim other wise. All evidence, every single shred proves not only that fighters are in better condition now, but that they blow old school condition so far out of the water that they would not even be considered professional boxers today.. EVEN the chubby HW boxers!!! And even the hulking bodybuilder ones that gas through lack of oxygen. Their overall performance is superior. d) NUtritional supplements have made superior athletes...really? this despite the evidence that has shown that there are virtually no supplements that scientifically show improvement in any great degree...but leroy knows best! I to some degree agree that there is flimsy evidence in favour of MANY supplements but taken collectively OF COURSE supplements are more than beneficial otherwise teams would not waste endless money on them. You are so ridiculous that ridiculous people blush around you! You make Charlie Z seem like a cogent individual! And thank you for your further trolling.. This myth, and all the other myths you promote, have been throughly busted!

I'm done with you. You have nothing to offer at all of any relevance. I remember your last post, basically you rely totally on the opinion of past authority figures in the sport which made claims themselves not based on any evidence. In round 1 for instance you can see the sort of stuff I am talking about in Liston Ali 1 when we were talking about him, arm stretched out, marching forward, not even a punch. I could give you a clip and time for any individual thing you point out to me but you would always have an excuse or fall back on "but he said so!" You make too many idiotic statements to address at once, but I'll point out just one. I am talking about real HW boxing, and you mention Bob Foster. An opponent who didn't achieve anything against any real HW boxer of any substantial skill. Incredible! Actually I'll go a couple more? WHO uses Louis as a bench mark today for modern HW's to aspire to? I mean really? Nobody who display's any evidence to back it up I can tell you that! And I don't care if someone like Roach SAYS so, I would ask him HOW so? You see the difference. And then you mention Foreman, yes he was old and fat, he was in his 40's, that's getting on for a HW even in modern times but fortunately things aare not so clear cut here for George. I think young Geroge would have been better suited for SOME opponents and definitely young Geroge is better suited for some opponents. George's early career was fought against a much smaller and poorer quality of opposition. And it was young Geroge who gassed against Muhammad and lost to featherfist Young. Old George had a BETTER career than young George, mounting fights against Holyfield, Morrison, Briggs and beating Moorer etc. But you would attribute this to Young+Ali being better than these guys since they struggled with the old version. How can it be? Because this is a case where old George was... - Better skilled, he only learned how to box properly in his 2nd career! - Far heavier and stronger, with better punch resistance and crude power. - Vastly more experienced! And these qualities^ are sometimes more important that youth and athleticism! And sometimes not. Against the vast majority of opponents, I'd say they are in Geroge's case! But you go on with your nutbaggery, if you would like me to debunk anything with examples or stats individually, feel free to ask! Critical thinking and reflective analysis is my JOB. You have yet to mention one fact, nor any anecdotal information and despite this you claim, due to something only you and your lover Welterschmaltz seem able to percieve, that modern heavyweights are vastly superior. You know how stupud you is? some people conveniently use only the facts that support their argument and disregaard the other ones....you don't even have those facts! To date you claim that: a) old methods of training were so vastly inferior...this despite the rounds fought, the condition of the fighters, and the many informed experienced trainers. Your objectvity? "I saw a tape in mom's basement!" b) FIghters punch so much harder now. Again....proof? c) fighters are in much better condition now....despite the facts which show a general decline in how fighters are prepared, you claim other wise. d) NUtritional supplements have made superior athletes...really? this despite the evidence that has shown that there are virtually no supplements that scientifically show improvement in any great degree...but leroy knows best! You are so ridiculous that ridiculous people blush around you! You make Charlie Z seem like a cogent individual!

it's obvious you're an alt bro. no sane man joins a boxing website and immediately puts up two bieber avatars designed to enrage. just embrace it. i actually appreciate the beibs. he's a talented guy. I'm actually a belieber myself.

Christ I didn't even mention Wlad. That guy needs meds. it's obvious you're an alt bro. no sane man joins a boxing website and immediately puts up two bieber avatars designed to enrage. just embrace it. i actually appreciate the beibs. he's a talented guy.

but roided cruisery bums are Roided Cruisers? YES they are. Ethics aside, cruisers roided to HW's are competitive in the ring, regarless! As for the last bit, show me today a former CW fighting in the HW division that has a bummy record? Yeah, I don't think so! ;)

Cruisery bums are NOT on the menu for a HW champ these days! but roided cruisery bums are

Frazier is an Atg. His only two losses were to the best boxer ever, Ali and the hardest puncher ever, Foreman. He cleaned out the division before the superfight against Ali. He was also undisputed so he couldn't pick his opponents. You have 47,000 posts and think Ali is the best boxer ever? lol

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/d7/d7c7a050465cd0e1eea943393093b0781c90cab072013062474b1a5783f66054.jpg

Frazier is an Atg. His only two losses were to the best boxer ever, Ali and the hardest puncher ever, Foreman. He cleaned out the division before the superfight against Ali. He was also undisputed so he couldn't pick his opponents. Yes of course, best boxer ever and hardest puncher ever. Your word says more than the facts ever could. Refer to my thread "A close look.." on NSB.

Frazier is an Atg. His only two losses were to the best boxer ever, Ali and the hardest puncher ever, Foreman. He cleaned out the division before the superfight against Ali. He was also undisputed so he couldn't pick his opponents.

If the fight gets past the 5th round Frazier takes over and wins. So, yes. Your ****ing ****ting me right! :lol1: Every time Tyson fought an opponent as weak as Frazier, he KO'ed them in a single round. Joe would do no better than his bloody son did! Anybody who thinks otherwise than THAT is on something! I can't believe what some guys here will try to promote! :lol1:

Joe Frazier is an ATG. Anyone who disputes it is on some other sh1t.

I suppose Frazier could hang with Tyson too right? If the fight gets past the 5th round Frazier takes over and wins. So, yes.

Don't see why it doesn't make sense to bring up Wlad in this context since he's the current heavyweight champion AND similar size to Lennox. So you broaden the horizons then and not just assault/insult one HW, but go on to promote Frazier against the last few decades of HW boxing too.. Why stop? I suppose Frazier could hang with Tyson too right?

Why do you keep responding to me then? Surely, a boxing expert like yourself could just leave a relative novice like me alone. Cause I enjoy countering your best insights with truth, it's somewhat amusing. And your kind irritate me to no end so I feel it must be exposed!

He takes what is said and extrapolates them to the extreme. And he blends all of us into the same person. Among the worst, most *****iest posters on the Scene by far! Why do you keep responding to me then? Surely, a boxing expert like yourself could just leave a relative novice like me alone.

He takes what is said and extrapolates them to the extreme. And he blends all of us into the same person. Among the worst, most *****iest posters on the Scene by far! A 200 barely 6 ft pound definition of "flat footed face first brawler" vs Lennox. If you were the commission would you even approve it? Didn't stop the commission from accepting Wlad vs Byrd or Wlad vs Haye or Wlad vs Chambers, or Vitali vs Adamek etc or the countless cruiserweights or light heavyweights they've fought over the years. Don't see why it doesn't make sense to bring up Wlad in this context since he's the current heavyweight champion AND similar size to Lennox.

Christ I didn't even mention Wlad. That guy needs meds. He takes what is said and extrapolates them to the extreme. And he blends all of us into the same person. Among the worst, most *****iest posters on the Scene by far!