The Best 21st Century 160lb Fighters

geez do me a favor and tell me how old he was when marg beat him them! What u mean was his second prime started when the peds kicked in. so by your logic fighters like guillermo rigondeaux and erislandy lara aren't in there primes then?? They both around 30 with low pro records. Sergio was just about 25 when marg happened . So your saying his prime didn't start for another 30 fights? Fighting a bunch of nobody's. Having a draw against cintron. Lossing to pwill. (which i personally thought he won) then finally pavlik and pwill again! There's a reason his defected trainer gabriel sarmiento couldn't come to the usa. Since then he beat subpar opposition and hasn't looked so dynamic in his last 5 fights. And jr has no defense. He was a overrated punching bag. ydksab....

Martinez was only 3 years into his pro career and had fewer than twenty fights. He hadn't yet met the Sarmientos. He didn't reach big time success until his mid 30s. And quit with the PED nonsense. To claim Margarito and Martinez fought in Martinez's prime is either ignorance or trolling. So by your logic fighters like Guillermo Rigondeaux and Erislandy Lara aren't in there primes then?? They both around 30 with low pro records. Sergio was just about 25 when marg happened . So your saying his prime didn't start for another 30 fights? Fighting a bunch of nobody's. Having a draw against cintron. Lossing to Pwill. (Which I personally thought he won) then finally pavlik and Pwill again! There's a reason his defected trainer Gabriel Sarmiento couldn't come to the USA. Since then he beat subpar opposition and hasn't looked so dynamic in his last 5 fights. And Jr has no defense. He was a overrated punching bag.

Martinez was only 3 years into his pro career and had fewer than twenty fights. He hadn't yet met the Sarmientos. He didn't reach big time success until his mid 30s. And quit with the PED nonsense. To claim Margarito and Martinez fought in Martinez's prime is either ignorance or trolling.

Sergio wasn't in his prime at that point of his career Geez do me a favor and tell me how old he was when marg beat him them! What u mean was his second prime started when the peds kicked in.

Principally outta curiousity (and genuine interest) I ran the names through boxrec - I'm as aware as anyone how poor it is as a ratings system, being most use as just a general reference, just to see what came out. I'm not attempting to say these are how they should be judged, nor diffrentiating between title reigns and the rest of their fights, more doing an exercise just for the sake of it. I noted the peak scores of each fighter (during thir MW runs) and their scores at the time they either retired or moved permanently up to another division. The occasional fight above or below I've not bothered to correct for so long as they were consistantly fighting at 160, and I've also not bother to differentiate betweeen the career MWs and those who started lower. Taylor 1308 708 Wright 1267 1227 Pavlik 1165 604 Martinez 1094 current Golovkin 836 current Abraham 792 792 (829 if Taylor at 168 is included) Sturm 719 current Geale 711 521 currently JCC Jr 699 486 (assuming no return to 160) Sylvester 513 227 (First time I've tried using 'list' sorry it's a little messy - first number is peak score, second score at leaving the division, at retirement or currently) Curiously many of the points accrued by the top placed guys come directly or indirectly by way of BHop, via, Taylor then Pavlik to Maravilla. Once again this doesn't necessarily represent my actual thought out judgement on the criteria you provided, but ain't miles away either. Glad you took the time out to do this. TBH the boxrec ratings aren't all that different from mine but noway can I justify Wright that high and above both Pavlik and Martinez. Any idea how the boxrec ratings system works?? he was definitely pretty much 100% when he fought Chavez, he was on fire that night. He got caught in the 12th sure enough, but doesn't change the fact that he was awesome that night. he dropped off a hell of a lot for the murray fight though. Chavez may well have been his last great performance. I will always hold the Pavlik and Williams (2) fights as his greatest performances. One was against the best mw of his time and the other against a guy who had competed at world and elite level from 147-160 and he knocked Williams out cold. I still remember the sound that punch made. And Pwill will always be one of my fav ever fighters. You can watch Sturm/Murray and see that Murray isn't as good as the Martinez fight suggested. Murray is a good fighter but he fails to press the advantage in the second half of fights. He's done that several times before the Martinez fight. Sturm was probably his greatest performance but let's be honest, Sturm is way past his best. The only reason the Martinez was even close is not only because Martinez was barely functioning but because Martinez didn't press hard till the later rounds and Murray no longer seemed to have the stomach for the fight when Martinez did eventually step up. Murray said so himself, he lost the fight cos he didn't go at it hard enough in the championship rounds. I still find it weird when people claim Murray somehow won.

Watching Murray in his last fight (against Khomitsky - where frankly he was lucky to get away with a win, IMO a draw mighta been the best he could expect without a little home preference) it's hard not to concude that Sergio was very badly underperforming when they fought - the main hope is that Maravilla can show something close to old form in his last few fights. Murray received a lotta praise for the Maravilla performance (including my own), but personally I now need to see him fight again at high level before I'm convinced. You can watch Sturm/Murray and see that Murray isn't as good as the Martinez fight suggested.

Martinez fought rather unintelligently in that fight. He kept dropping his hands to his waist to get Murray to leave an opening, rather than creating his own openings. When Murray attacked, rather than counter and take advantage, Martinez would take a few shots and then run. What Martinez needed to do was stand his ground, be a bit aggressive, and throw combinations. He did just that in the last two rounds, which saved the fight for him. Is there any question that the Martinez of the Chavez fight knocks Murray out with ease?

That's what an unhealed knee injury does to you. Watching the Murray fight, it is clear that Martinez's mobility was badly impaired. That's why Martinez has taken so much time off to recover this time. Watching Murray in his last fight (against Khomitsky - where frankly he was lucky to get away with a win, IMO a draw mighta been the best he could expect without a little home preference) it's hard not to concude that Sergio was very badly underperforming when they fought - the main hope is that Maravilla can show something close to old form in his last few fights. Murray received a lotta praise for the Maravilla performance (including my own), but personally I now need to see him fight again at high level before I'm convinced.

he dropped off a hell of a lot for the murray fight though. Chavez may well have been his last great performance. That's what an unhealed knee injury does to you. Watching the Murray fight, it is clear that Martinez's mobility was badly impaired. That's why Martinez has taken so much time off to recover this time.

he was definitely pretty much 100% when he fought Chavez, he was on fire that night. He got caught in the 12th sure enough, but doesn't change the fact that he was awesome that night. he dropped off a hell of a lot for the murray fight though. Chavez may well have been his last great performance.

Who are the best 160lb fighters of the 21st century. To make things less predictable I'm excluding Bernard Hopkins from the running. So list your top 10 and keep the following criteria in mind: World championship wins Quality of opposition faced, including former/future/present champions or titlists Title reign Skill level Also take into account any losses and who those losses were against I'm not looking at h2h, as that becomes far too subjective and people start letting personal opinions rule the roost. I'm trying to make the most objective list possible. 1. Sergio Martinez It's got to be Maravilla, he avenged his only loss in 9 years against Williams by a brutal 2nd round KO, Williams a former multi-weight titlist. He also beat the lineal champion in Pavlik after jumping up from spending years at 154. It was a pretty convincing win too and then went on a run of beating some of the best middleweight contenders on the planet, all of which were ranked in the top 10. Chavez Jr was considered by many as the second best and Martinez made him look like an amateur, completely dominating the fight except for 30 seconds of round 12. He has beaten Williams, Pavlik (champion), Chavez Jr and Barker, all either titlists at the time, in the past or would become titlists after. 2. Jermain Taylor Taylor gets a lot of bad press these days but he beat Hopkins twice. The same Hopkins who has gone on to win titles against the likes of Tarver and Pascal at LHW, both men were leading champions in the division at the time. The decisions were close and may be regarded as controversial but I think Taylor pulled out two good wins. His championship run consisted of a decent bout with Wright, which he in all honesty, should have lost. A win against Spinks was decent. In Marquez, Spinks, Wright, Joppy and Hopkins, Taylor beat 5 former/future titlists/champion during his run at 160. I don't think the wins are over legitimate MW threats, apart from Hopkins and possibly Wright. 3. Kelly Pavlik The man who beat Taylor had a good run and terrific power in his prime. Wins over Miranda and Rubio are pretty damn good too. If only Pavlik hadn't fallen to his drink demons, he may well have managed to hold onto the title a bit longer. Sad thing is that he had so much promise but never lived up to it. It's not the best resume but stopping Taylor, Miranda and Rubio must still count for something, as does being the man in the division for almost 3 years. Champion/titlist that he beat include Taylor and McKart. 4. Felix Sturm Sturm spent too long in Germany fighting men who weren't truly worthy of title shots, while fighters like Hopkins, Taylor, Pavlik, Williams and Martinez fought for the true middleweight championship of the world. He has stepped up competition in recent years, fighting guys like Barker, Murray, Macklin and Geale, all of whom are legitimate top 10 ranked guys at 160lb. He should arguably have losses to Macklin and Murray but both fights were damn close and by that same token, he should have a win over the great Oscar DLH. His wins over titlists include Masoe, Castillejo, Sylvester and Barker. Sadly there are no wins over true champions of the division. 5. Arthur Abraham One of the hardest hitting fighters in the division in recent times, Abraham loved to start slow behind the famous high guard, inch forward, look for openings and then bang, knock his opponents senseless. His brutal fight with Miranda is a highlight, showing his his resilience and heart. He also holds wins against pretty good fighters in Eastman and Marquez but sadly fights against the likes of Pavlik never materialised. At mw, his only win over a titlist, former/present/future is Marquez, which isn't great but AA had a lengthy reign as champion and defended against decent fighters. 6. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr Chavez Jr gets a lot of hate, and I mean a lot but if you look at his middleweight run, it's been pretty damn good. Wins over Lee, Duddy, Rubio and Zbik are nothing to be scoffed at, considering most of these fights were back to back. It's true that Jr holds no wins over any titlists but we must remember that the guys he has beaten were worthy challengers and Zbik was unbeaten, having won regional titles. 7. Daniel Geale A bit of an underrated fighter at 160, especially since his run near the top was limited but he is quick, has a good work rate and can mix it up. His punch selection is some of the best in the division and looking at the guys he has beaten, it's not a bad list at all. That includes wins against German champions IN Germany. Titlists he has beaten include Mundine, Sylvester and Sturm. That's a solid time at 160 right there, which may include a rematch with Sturm in the future and another title. 8. Ronald Wright He doesn't hold a single championship win in the division but should have got the nod against Taylor for the undisputed title, he does however hold wins against Trinidad (admittedly almost shot), Quartey (same as Trinidad) and Soliman. Wright in that time has beaten a former middleweight titlist in Trinidad and Quartey who held titles in a lower division. All of this while he was on the down turn of his physical peak. 9. Gennady Golovkin Quite possibly the best middleweight not crowned as champion, that's what many fans and pundits will have you believe. He may well be in the future but as of now his run at middleweight hasn't been the best in terms of opponents, bar Macklin. Proksa may be added to that list but it's slim pickings after that. What gets Golovkin on this list is his immense power, a good technique and his reign as undefeated titlist. 10. Sebastien Sylvester A good run as IBF champion but makes it onto the list due to Barker's short time near the top and Murray and Macklins inability to win titles. Its a weak resume but title wins and defences can't be discounted. Stepping up and losing to guys like Sturm and Geale is counted against him. Principally outta curiousity (and genuine interest) I ran the names through boxrec - I'm as aware as anyone how poor it is as a ratings system, being most use as just a general reference, just to see what came out. I'm not attempting to say these are how they should be judged, nor diffrentiating between title reigns and the rest of their fights, more doing an exercise just for the sake of it. I noted the peak scores of each fighter (during thir MW runs) and their scores at the time they either retired or moved permanently up to another division. The occasional fight above or below I've not bothered to correct for so long as they were consistantly fighting at 160, and I've also not bother to differentiate betweeen the career MWs and those who started lower. Taylor 1308 708 Wright 1267 1227 Pavlik 1165 604 Martinez 1094 current Golovkin 836 current Abraham 792 792 (829 if Taylor at 168 is included) Sturm 719 current Geale 711 521 currently JCC Jr 699 486 (assuming no return to 160) Sylvester 513 227 (First time I've tried using 'list' sorry it's a little messy - first number is peak score, second score at leaving the division, at retirement or currently) Curiously many of the points accrued by the top placed guys come directly or indirectly by way of BHop, via, Taylor then Pavlik to Maravilla. Once again this doesn't necessarily represent my actual thought out judgement on the criteria you provided, but ain't miles away either.

If Prime Sergio is the one that KOd Paul Williams, how good was he when he fought Chavez? Murray? Against Pwill- 100% Chavez Jr- x % Murray- y% Just want to see how much people think he declined Against Chavez? I think he was at 100% there. His stamina, power, speed, reflexes, mobility, etc. were all there. Against Murray, due to the injuries, maybe 50%. He couldn't move the way he usually did. He wasn't aggressive. And he wasn't throwing combinations.

If Prime Sergio is the one that KOd Paul Williams, how good was he when he fought Chavez? Murray? Against Pwill- 100% Chavez Jr- x % Murray- y% Just want to see how much people think he declined

By the way. Just ask Margarito how good Sergio was. In his prime. Sergio wasn't in his prime at that point of his career

I'd take Winky Wright in that fight. I might too but Winky did lose a lot of close decisions because he always seemed to lack that little extra, Martinez might have that in his more dynamic and at times, explosive style.

Yeah, I'd love to see prime Sergio v Winky at 160 I'd take Winky Wright in that fight.

you're a fuktard Aaaw poor butt hurts :bottle:

By the way. Just ask Margarito how good Sergio was. In his prime. you're a fuktard

By the way. Just ask Margarito how good Sergio was. In his prime. Yeah because Margarito fought him in his prime or at 160... Go die slowly.

people quickly forget how good a healthy Sergio was:doh: By the way. Just ask Margarito how good Sergio was. In his prime.