In light of a thread in NSB about Mayweather having never beaten a great fighter I thought this would be a better way to judge Mayweather by comparing his best wins versus Pacquiao's best wins because I think most would agree that they are the two best fighters of the past decade or so. Thus these seem to me to be the top 20 wins between them in the order of quality taking into account the quality of the opponent at the time of the fight and the manner of the victory. I only included official victories and left the Canelo fight off because I think we need a good couple of years or so to judge that win properly.
How badly off is my ranking?
Mayweather
Pacquiao
Top 20
Barrera I
Marquez
Cotto
Morales II
Corrales
Castillo II
De La Hoya
Marquez III
Marquez II
Margarito
Cotto
Hatton
Hatton
Castillo I
Mosley
Hernandez
Sasakul
Barrera II
Morales III
Ledwaba
Destroyed? In a similar fashion? Did you even watch it?
Yes, I caught it.
Similar; One sided.
Raheem and Pacquaio are close to polar opposites so it's pretty obvious I'm not talking about the styles.
Margarito hadn't looked impressive in years at that point, his last impressive win was the Cotto fight in 2008. Just simply isn't a good win at all.
Morales get destroyed in similar fashion by Zahir Raheem before even the second fight. Not knocked out but utterly dominated for 12 rounds.
I'd have Jesus Chavez above both of those wins.
To have Margarito above Sasakul, Hernandez, Ledwaba, Cotto, Hatton x2, Castillo is astonishing to me.
I'd also have all of those wins above Morales 3. A fight I consider almost worthless.
Destroyed? In a similar fashion? Did you even watch it?
Agree
People underrate these Pacquiao wins
too long ago and not "MAINSTREAM" names.
same reason newb flo mos don't mento genaro, which was one of floyd's best wins.
pacquiao's wins over sasakul and ledwaba are too underrated. as are some of floyd's earlier fights. ppl overrate the big names without looking into the whole story.
ledwaba was 32-1 (L was early in his career)
ledwaba was a champion and top 2-3 122 in the world
ledwaba was skilled and was being groomed to be hbo top fighter
pacquiao took the fight on short notice (lehlo's opp pulled out)
pacquiao destroyed him as a last minute replacement with only a few fights at 122. pac was at 112 just 2 years earlier.
sasakul was lineal champ at 112
sasakul was 33-1 and his only loss was to the 112 champ who he beat in a rematch for the title
sasakul was one of the top guys in the lower weight classes
pacquiao was only 19 yrs old
Agree
People underrate these Pacquiao wins
The Margarito win was only two years after Margarito's win against Cotto, which was the biggest win of Margarito's career. Margarito was also very convincingly smashed up by Pacquiao, Pacquiao even went easy on him in the last round. It doesn't seem convincing to me that he declined so much in this time. I think if Pacquiao's Margarito win has to be lowered or dropped from the top 20 then probably Mayweather's Mosley win will have to as well. Jesus Chavez was a good pressure fighter but he had beaten nobody of any real quality before Mayweather and his success after the Mayweather defeat did not suggest to me that Mayweather's win over him was more impressive than Pacquiao's over Margarito.
You say "Only" like that's a short space of time.
Two years is a long time especially in today's game. And especially when all that's happened in that period is a one sided beatdown to Mosley and a unconvincing win over a Journeyman.
I don't see how the Mosley-Margarito comparison makes sense. Pacquaio didn't fight the Margarito that Mosley did.
Margarito hadn't done anything since 2008 and did nothing after it. That's not impressive. Wasn't even considered a legitimate fight when it happened.
As for Chavez, his fights post Mayweather, especially the Morales fight, show me what quality he is and most certainly better than the shells (And in Morales case the corpse) of those fighters.
How can Morales III be worthless? He fought Pacquiao in a well fought fight in his previous fight to this, 10 months previous. Clearly Morales in the third fight wasn't as good as the Morales in the second fight but surely that does not mean it was worthless. Like I said who would have destroyed Morales like Pacquiao did here? David Diaz didn't 9 months later and the only person to do so was Danny Garcia and that was only the back end of last year and at a higher weight against the best in that particular division.
It's worthless because he was completely done at that level and also struggling badly with the weight on top of that.
I told you that Raheem destroyed Morales before even the second bout. If he had a punch he'd have taken him out in simialr fashion.
I think the idea of the second fight being close is a common myth, IMO. Yeah, sure, Morales corpse put up a decent fight in the early stages because Morales has shown us he corpse can hang in there with the skill he has. But Pacquaio sweeped a list of the rounds before the stoppage and clearly showed Morales is done at that top top level.
The 3rd fight was nothing more than a money fight.
Can someone tell these floydiots Pac is a former flyweight champ who moved up through these many weight divisions therefore his wins were more meaningful than Floyd cherry picked opponents.
pacquiao's wins over sasakul and ledwaba are too underrated. as are some of floyd's earlier fights. ppl overrate the big names without looking into the whole story.
ledwaba was 32-1 (L was early in his career)
ledwaba was a champion and top 2-3 122 in the world
ledwaba was skilled and was being groomed to be hbo top fighter
pacquiao took the fight on short notice (lehlo's opp pulled out)
pacquiao destroyed him as a last minute replacement with only a few fights at 122. pac was at 112 just 2 years earlier.
sasakul was lineal champ at 112
sasakul was 33-1 and his only loss was to the 112 champ who he beat in a rematch for the title
sasakul was one of the top guys in the lower weight classes
pacquiao was only 19 yrs old
Unfortunately this was moved from the history section. Any comments from the non Pacquiao/Mayweather haters?
From the history section? This is much worse in NSB, and this topic has heen beaten to death in every related thread almost every day, by both trolls and actual knowledgable posters.
Margarito hadn't looked impressive in years at that point, his last impressive win was the Cotto fight in 2008. Just simply isn't a good win at all.
Morales get destroyed in similar fashion by Zahir Raheem before even the second fight. Not knocked out but utterly dominated for 12 rounds.
I'd have Jesus Chavez above both of those wins.
To have Margarito above Sasakul, Hernandez, Ledwaba, Cotto, Hatton x2, Castillo is astonishing to me.
I'd also have all of those wins above Morales 3. A fight I consider almost worthless.
The Margarito win was only two years after Margarito's win against Cotto, which was the biggest win of Margarito's career. Margarito was also very convincingly smashed up by Pacquiao, Pacquiao even went easy on him in the last round. It doesn't seem convincing to me that he declined so much in this time. I think if Pacquiao's Margarito win has to be lowered or dropped from the top 20 then probably Mayweather's Mosley win will have to as well. Jesus Chavez was a good pressure fighter but he had beaten nobody of any real quality before Mayweather and his success after the Mayweather defeat did not suggest to me that Mayweather's win over him was more impressive than Pacquiao's over Margarito.
How can Morales III be worthless? He fought Pacquiao in a well fought fight in his previous fight to this, 10 months previous. Clearly Morales in the third fight wasn't as good as the Morales in the second fight but surely that does not mean it was worthless. Like I said who would have destroyed Morales like Pacquiao did here? David Diaz didn't 9 months later and the only person to do so was Danny Garcia and that was only the back end of last year and at a higher weight against the best in that particular division.
Can you give your reasons? I know Margarito got stopped by Mosley but does that mean he was finished as a fighter? Morales III I can understand more but his previous fight was Pacquiao and Pacquiao simply destroyed him again, would anyone else have destroyed him like Pacquiao did? Which wins from Pacquiao or Mayweather would you have ahead of Morales III?
Margarito hadn't looked impressive in years at that point, his last impressive win was the Cotto fight in 2008. Just simply isn't a good win at all.
Morales get destroyed in similar fashion by Zahir Raheem before even the second fight. Not knocked out but utterly dominated for 12 rounds.
I'd have Jesus Chavez above both of those wins.
To have Margarito above Sasakul, Hernandez, Ledwaba, Cotto, Hatton x2, Castillo is astonishing to me.
I'd also have all of those wins above Morales 3. A fight I consider almost worthless.
Margarito and Morales 3 shouldn't be on any list.
Can you give your reasons? I know Margarito got stopped by Mosley but does that mean he was finished as a fighter? Morales III I can understand more but his previous fight was Pacquiao and Pacquiao simply destroyed him again, would anyone else have destroyed him like Pacquiao did? Which wins from Pacquiao or Mayweather would you have ahead of Morales III?
Genaro Hernandez a better win than Barrera 2 honestly WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?! the rest isn't that bad though
Pac > Barrera 1
Pac > Barrera 2
PBF > Corrales
Pac > Hatton
PBF > Mosley
Pac > Sasakul
PBF > Castillo 2
Pac > Marquez 3
PBF > Hatton
I did not include any catchweights, missed weights, or controversial decisions on purpose.
My reasoning on why I had Mayweather's win against Hernadez higher than Pacquiao's second Barrera win is that Barerra was on the slide and it went the distance whereas Mayweather stopped Hernandez who had been a super featherweight champ for a long period. Perhaps Hernandez could be considered on the slide also so maybe Barerra II should be ranked higher than Hernandez but Barrera II should definitely not be ranked as high as you have it.
In light of a thread in NSB about Mayweather having never beaten a great fighter I thought this would be a better way to judge Mayweather by comparing his best wins versus Pacquiao's best wins because I think most would agree that they are the two best fighters of the past decade or so. Thus these seem to me to be the top 20 wins between them in the order of quality taking into account the quality of the opponent at the time of the fight and the manner of the victory. I only included official victories and left the Canelo fight off because I think we need a good couple of years or so to judge that win properly.
How badly off is my ranking?
Mayweather
Pacquiao
Top 20
Barrera I
Marquez
Cotto
Morales II
Corrales
Castillo II
De La Hoya
Marquez III
Marquez II
Margarito
Cotto
Hatton
Hatton
Castillo I
Mosley
Hernandez
Sasakul
Barrera II
Morales III
Ledwaba
Genaro Hernandez a better win than Barrera 2 honestly WTF?!?!?!?!?!?!?! the rest isn't that bad though
Pac > Barrera 1
Pac > Barrera 2
PBF > Corrales
Pac > Hatton
PBF > Mosley
Pac > Sasakul
PBF > Castillo 2
PBF > Hatton
the rest are irrelevant
I did not include any catchweights, missed weights, or controversial decisions on purpose.
Anyway the edge is Pacquiao by a lot