breaking down this heavyweight era and others: Why today stinks!!

So we've had this conversation a million times. I'm adamant todays era sucks because fighters don't fight one another and the champion (and his titlist brother) do not often enough fight the best fighters. so I've done a little research and selected the Klits and 3 fighters who people say their era was weak. Now lets remember, ANY fighter can only fight who's there to fight, I've never blamed either brother for that. Now, head to head means nothing in this thread, it doesn't prove anything because its just a fantasy fight. So, for the purpose of this thread I've used The Ring's annual rankings. Some ranked contenders may have been missed because rhese are year end rankings, but it's an even playing field for each fighter. Feel free to check my work, I've already double checked it. How this works is I've taken each fighter and listed every top 10 fighter he has fought while being top 10 ranked himself. I did not use ABC champion such as Bruno for Tyson or Schultz foe Wlad because they were not ranked. The only exception I made was ranking Spinks a champion because he was in fact the lineal champ when he fought Tyson. I've used each contenders rank from The Ring and divided that number by number of contender. Champions naturally have a zero and you can figure out the rest. Here we go!! Vitaly Klitschko Byrd 10 loss Lewis Champion loss Sanders 9 Peter 8 Arreola 6 Adamek 3 6 top 10 fighters faced, average rank 6 Wladimir Klitschko Byrd 10 McCline 10 Sanders 3 loss Brewster 10 loss Peter 9 Ibragimov 9 Chagaev 4 Chambers 7 Haye 2 Povetkin 2 10 top 10 fighters faced, average rank 6.6 Mike Tyson Berbick 7 Thomas 5 Tucker3 Biggs 9 Spinks Champion Williams 8 Douglas 7 Ruddock 4 Ruddock 4 Holyfield 1 Holyfield champion loss Lewis champion loss 12 top 10 fighters faced, average rank 4.4 Joe Louis Carnera 3 Schmeling 1 Loss Ettore 9 Pastor 9 Braddock champion Farr 2 Pastor 2 Godoy 2 Godoy 2 B. Baer 7 Simon 5 Conn 1 Nova 8 Mauriello 1 Walcott 3 Walcott 1 Charles champion loss Brion 7 Marciano champion loss 19 top 10 fighters faced, average rank 3.6 Larry Holmes Norton 2 Evangelista 7 Weaver 4 Shavers 5 Berbick 6 L. Spinks 7 Snipes 10 Cooney 7 Cobb 9 Witherspoon 5 Smith 9 Williams 9 Spinks champion loss Tyson champion loss Mercer 8 15 top 10 fighters faced, average rank 5.12 Make of this what you will, but the facts speak for themselves.

Comments (20)

Great thread and research mate. I don't know if you saw but i was looking at doing a very similar thing in your 'Rummys Corner' thread I especially like the research on the kind of competition the challengers faced, as i feel that is the biggest difference between now and the past. Lots of fighters in Kbro era sat around waiting for the payday, and consequently werent proven or experienced by the time they got in the ring to face such a great fighter. Thanks man, I appreciate that. Feel free to throw in anything you can dig up yourself. I don't have as much time these days as I use to.

8y ago

Tom_Cruise

Yeah, I'm against putting Heavies on p4p lists and have caught some flak for it. I generally don't like p4p anyway and think they're bullsh1t for anything more than a fun exercise in the meaningless :hah9: I think it really depends on what your P4P list is for. If its a traditional p4p list, ie, if they were the same size who would be the best in the world type thing, then yeah HWs are gonna have a hard time. But, imo that type of list is normally extremely flawed, and most lists, includong mine, tend more towards purely about greatness in that era, how dominant were you, how good were your opponents. In which case i see no reason M.Ali couldnt be in the top 10. I generally judge HWs differently as well, they arent going to be able to fight loads of champions or move around the weights, so i cant mark them down for that. For them its all about top 5/ top 10 opposition and who you dethroned, whether you beat some of the top guys from the era after yours etc. Ali has a preposterous resume really. He did everything you could ever want a HW to do, and i see no reason he cant be one of the top P4P fighters of all time

8y ago

Tom_Cruise

This was an interesting study. I'm looking forward to doing another one from the past few years to determine where THIS era stands as of now. Mind you, newer era's have weakened due to so many orgs and the politics of said orgs. But that all bears weight on an era's strength or weakness. Great thread and research mate. I don't know if you saw but i was looking at doing a very similar thing in your 'Rummys Corner' thread I especially like the research on the kind of competition the challengers faced, as i feel that is the biggest difference between now and the past. Lots of fighters in Kbro era sat around waiting for the payday, and consequently werent proven or experienced by the time they got in the ring to face such a great fighter.

8y ago

Kezzer

ITs easy to look at other era’s, having seen a full career pan out , and decide it was a great era. Similarly you forget overtime about the dull fights and remember only the best. We have yet to see what the likes of Whyte, Joshua, Parker, etc carve out of a career. Let’s give them that opportunity and thrive on what is around us rather than compare to other generations. The judge of that can come over time. For the moment The heavyweight division is as interesting to watch as any , I don’t think I could’ve named ten heavyweight ms I was truly interested in watching 5 years ago now I could easily .. Joshua, Whyte, Povetkin, Ortiz, wilder, Parker, fury, Miller - let’s be quite realistic. Any of these fighters most of us on here would watch and in a fight against each other, despite there being clear favourites , you could see arguments for any beating any. Most of them haven’t fought each other yet so next couple of years could throw a number of good foghts

8y ago

JAB5239

8y ago

JAB5239

Thats because you guys don't really get it see? its not just that modern fighters have gotten bigger, they have actually evolved. Over the course of one or two generations today's fighters have gotten bigger, faster, and a lot smarter also! Even though it takes most species thousands of years humans are special. If you were to take the skeleton of Joe Louis and a Klit brother you would find that the Louis skeleton practically just lost the tail at the Sacral area of the spine. The Klit skeleton would meanwhile have extra vertabrea fused in from our adaptation to gravity....producing incredible punching power like the ancients have never seen. And all those old trainers....like Futch were superstitious. Today's trainers are totally scientific! I encourage everybody to green k this post! :rofl:

12y ago

billeau2

Yeah, I'm against putting Heavies on p4p lists and have caught some flak for it. I generally don't like p4p anyway and think they're bullsh1t for anything more than a fun exercise in the meaningless :hah9: And.....many knowledgable boxing trainers feel that Ali actually missed his prime and think he would have even been better if not for the riff that caused him to get banned.

12y ago

JAB5239

It is not fair to compare resumes with Louis and Ali. Nobody believes the Klitschko's could be compared with them. They have done really well in this era tho. They're good fighters in a bad era. And it doesn't help them they don't face more top 10 comp, especially Vits.

12y ago

billeau2

yea,,the size thing does get ridiculously overrated on here Thats because you guys don't really get it see? its not just that modern fighters have gotten bigger, they have actually evolved. Over the course of one or two generations today's fighters have gotten bigger, faster, and a lot smarter also! Even though it takes most species thousands of years humans are special. If you were to take the skeleton of Joe Louis and a Klit brother you would find that the Louis skeleton practically just lost the tail at the Sacral area of the spine. The Klit skeleton would meanwhile have extra vertabrea fused in from our adaptation to gravity....producing incredible punching power like the ancients have never seen. And all those old trainers....like Futch were superstitious. Today's trainers are totally scientific!

12y ago

miamike

It is not fair to compare resumes with Louis and Ali. Nobody believes the Klitschko's could be compared with them. They have done really well in this era tho.

12y ago

JAB5239

That's really just a sick (good sick) resume...... It really is. I'm contemplating moving Ali ahead of Louis on my all time top 10 heavyweight list and readjusting a new tip 20 p4p list. I usually don't include heavyweights, but when you look at it like this its pretty damn impressive.

12y ago

JAB5239

List updated with the addition of Ken Norton Muhammad Ali 27 Joe Louis 19 Evander Holyfield 18 Ezzard Charles 18 Jersey Joe Walcott 17 Floyd Patterson 16 Larry Holmes 15 Lennox Lewis 14 Joe Frazier 12 Mike Tyson 12 Primo Carnera 12 George Foreman 11 Ken Norton 11 Sonny Liston 10 Wladimir Klitschko 10 Rocky Marciano 9 Vittles Klitschko 6 James Braddock 5

12y ago

JAB5239

Ken Norton has fought 11 top 10 ranked fighters. He's fought Holmes, Cooney, Shavers, LeDoux, Young, Quarry, Foreman, Ali 3x and Jose Luis Garcia.

12y ago

JAB5239

List updated with the addition of Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali 27 Joe Louis 19 Evander Holyfield 18 Ezzard Charles 18 Jersey Joe Walcott 17 Floyd Patterson 16 Larry Holmes 15 Lennox Lewis 14 Joe Frazier 12 Mike Tyson 12 Primo Carnera 12 George Foreman 11 Sonny Liston 10 Wladimir Klitschko 10 Rocky Marciano 9 Vittles Klitschko 6 James Braddock 5

12y ago

JAB5239

Muhammad Ali fought 27 top 10 rated fighters. He fought Liston 2x, Patterson 2x, Chuvalo, Terrell, Quarry 2x, Bonavena, Frazier 3x, Ellis, Foster, Norton 3x, Foreman, Wepner, Lyle, Bugner, Young, Evangelista, Shavers, Spinks, Holmes and Berbick.

12y ago

JAB5239

List updated with the addition of James Braddock. Joe Louis 19 Evander Holyfield 18 Ezzard Charles 18 Jersey Joe Walcott 17 Floyd Patterson 16 Larry Holmes 15 Lennox Lewis 14 Joe Frazier 12 Mike Tyson 12 Primo Carnera 12 George Foreman 11 Sonny Liston 10 Wladimir Klitschko 10 Rocky Marciano 9 Vittles Klitschko 6 James Braddock 5

12y ago

JAB5239

James Braddock fought 5 top 10 contenders at heavyweight. He fought Farr, Louis, Baer, Lasky and Schaff.

12y ago

JAB5239

List updated with the addition of Jersey Joe Walcott. Joe Louis 19 Evander Holyfield 18 Ezzard Charles 18 Jersey Joe Walcott 17 Floyd Patterson 16 Larry Holmes 15 Lennox Lewis 14 Joe Frazier 12 Mike Tyson 12 Primo Carnera 12 George Foreman 11 Sonny Liston 10 Wladimir Klitschko 10 Rocky Marciano 9 Vittles Klitschko 6

12y ago

JAB5239

Joe Walcott fought 17 top ten fighters. He fought Ettore, Simon, Bakso, Maxim 3x, Ray 2x, Louis 2x, Charles 4x, Layne and Marciano 2x.

12y ago

JAB5239

List updated with the addition of Ezzard Charles. Joe Louis 19 Evander Holyfield 18 Ezzard Charles 18 Floyd Patterson 16 Larry Holmes 15 Lennox Lewis 14 Joe Frazier 12 Mike Tyson 12 Primo Carnera 12 George Foreman 11 Sonny Liston 10 Wladimir Klitschko 10 Rocky Marciano 9 Vittles Klitschko 6

12y ago