where will Cooto rank ifbhe beats Martinez?

I think any time you beat the true champion it elevates your status. Is he an ATG? Im not sure. But it certainly improves his legacy in my opinion. Why? The bottom line to assessing a legacy is the quality of the fighter beaten at the time, I have stated facts as to why Martinez isn't top quality anymore, his status as the true champion doesn't change those facts. Beating Billy Backus in 71 or Ali in 78 wouldn't elevate a fighters status despite being the true champions, they simply were not good at the time.

Why do people keep stating that he's the lineal champion, all you need to do is look at the quality of the fighter, Martinez is not the same anymore, he will be 39, has been riddled with injury, should've lost his last fight against a fighter who wasn't very good, he won't have fought for over a year if they do fight and the fight will most likely be at a catch weight. Sorry that's just not a great a certainly not one that would catapult Cotto to ATG status. Cotto's best win is against a still good but nonetheless past-it Mosley, and even that win is levels above the rest of his wins, a win over Martinez wouldn't justify it, in fact, it wouldn't make it much better. Cotto is not an ATG and never will be. I think any time you beat the true champion it elevates your status. Is he an ATG? Im not sure. But it certainly improves his legacy in my opinion.

Neither cotto or Serg are ATGs,, They are hall of famers for sure, and great fighters of their era, but in historic terms they pale in comparison to true ATGs like monzon, hearns, benitez, gomez, etc

Why do people keep stating that he's the lineal champion, all you need to do is look at the quality of the fighter, Martinez is not the same anymore, he will be 39, has been riddled with injury, should've lost his last fight against a fighter who wasn't very good, he won't have fought for over a year if they do fight and the fight will most likely be at a catch weight. Sorry that's just not a great a certainly not one that would catapult Cotto to ATG status. Cotto's best win is against a still good but nonetheless past-it Mosley, and even that win is levels above the rest of his wins, a win over Martinez wouldn't justify it, in fact, it wouldn't make it much better. Cotto is not an ATG and never will be.

Whose list is that? I may ne mistaken, but i believe that is McGrain's list from ESB.

Would give his legacy a huge bump. But I just highly doubt Cotto beats Martinez.

That's a decent win and the way I see it he's suppose to beat Martinez, suppose to. Martinez looked like hot garbage against Murray, it doesn't matter that you may have had Sergio winning because Murray himself ain't that good. Cotto has the boxing ability (good enough) to box circles around a guy who can't even move well anymore.

There certainly wouldn't be a doubt that he's an ATG, I don't think. Martinez may be faded, but Cotto's just as faded. Hell no, a win over Martinez wouldn't make him an ATG, not even close.

Top 100...............

I think this is a respectable list (Apr. 2009), you can draw your own conclusions: 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Sam Langford 5. Harry Greb 6. Joe Louis 7. Ezzard Charles 8. Willie Pep 9. Roberto Duran 10. Archie Moore 11. Benny Leonard 12. Ray Leonard 13. Pernell Whitaker 14. Bob Fitzsimmons 15. Joe Gans 16. Carlos Monzon 17. Barney Ross 18. Jack Johnson 19. Marvin Hagler 20. Jimmy Wilde 21. Mickey Walker 22. Sandy Saddler 23. Manny Pacquiao 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Alexis Arguello 26. Rocky Marciano 27. Gene Tunney 28. Roy Jones Jr 29. Lennox Lewis 30. Evander Holyfield 31. Bernard Hopkins 32. Barbados Joe Walcott 33. Eder Jofre 34. Tony Canzoneri 35. Emile Griffith 36. Jack Dempsey 37. Charley Burley 38. Kid Gavilan 39. Salvador Sanchez 40. Ike Williams 41. Larry Holmes 42. Floyd Mayweather Jr 43. Thomas Hearns 44. Jimmy McLarnin 45. Stanley Ketchel 46. Tommy Loughran 47. Michael Spinks 48. Ruben Olivares 49. Jose Napoles 50. Fighting Harada 51. Wilfredo Gomez 52. Carlos Ortiz 53. Dick Tiger 54. Panama Al Brown 55. Tiger Flowers 56. Kid Chocolate 57. Bob Foster 58. Billy Conn 59. George Foreman 60. Joe Frazier 61. Aaron Pryor 62. Jake LaMotta 63. Abe Attel 64. Carmen Basilio 65. Manuel Ortiz 66. Terry McGovern 67. Tommy Ryan 68. Ricardo Lopez 69. Jim Jeffries 70. Jack Britton 71. Ted Kid Lewis 72. Carlos Zarate 73. Wilfred Benitez 74. Oscar De La Hoya 75. Felix Trinidad 76. Shane Mosley 77. Luis Manuel Rodriguez 78. Pancho Villa 79. Azumah Nelson 80. Erik Morales 81. Juan Manuel Marquez 82. Mike Tyson 83. Pascual Perez 84. Marco Antonio Barrera 85. Joe Brown 86. Joe Calzaghe 87. Harry Wills 88. Miguel Canto 89. Marcel Cerdan 90. Flash Elorde 91. Holman Williams 92. John Dundee 93. Mike McCallum 94. Antonio Cervantes 95. Nicolino Locche 96. George Dixon 97. Sonny Liston 98. Packey McFarland 99. Khaosai Galaxy 100. Benny Lynch 101. Freddie Welsh 102. Jimmy Bivins 103. Harold Johnson 104. Bob Montgomery 105. Vicente Saldivar 106. Beau Jack 107. Maxie Rosenbloom 108. Gene Fullmer 109. Eusebio Pedroza 110. Lloyd Marshall 111. Lou Ambers 112. Battling Nelson 113. James Toney 114. Jim Driscoll 115. Jeff Fenech 116. Johnny Kilbane 117. Pete Herman 118. Kosta Tszyu 119. Freddie Miller 120. Nino Benvenuti 121. Georges Carpentier 122. Ken Buchanan 123. Duilio Loi 124. Winky Wright 125. Tommy Gibbons 126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien 127. Jack Kid Berg 128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey 129. Jack Blackburn 130. Johnny Tapia Whose list is that?

Well is somethig not too many fighters that started their careers below 147 have done. Fighters that started @140 or below that becames midleweight champions Roberto Duran Oscar De La Hoya Sugar Ray Robinson I am not sure if I am missing anyone else but thats it. If he wins he is top 100 for sure.

This is a cherry pick. Martinez has looked like sht shouldnt be the champ is coming of surgery and a long layoff. And to top it off their will probably be a catchweight. If cotto cant beat this version of martinez he sucks Hes the lineal middleweight champion. Not his best, but neither is Cotto.

Umm.... Oscar lost that fight. Matter of fact the idiot gave that fight away. On the scorecards and in the ring. I bet you anything, Oscar's "loss" propelled him higher than it did for Tito's "win".

Yep. Nothing Cotto does can even touch Oscar's win over a prime WW Tito. NOTHING. Umm.... Oscar lost that fight. Matter of fact the idiot gave that fight away. On the scorecards and in the ring.

He'll finally get the recognition as an ATG and at least a top 100 fighter. Lineal MW champ at his age at his size off the hard losses he's had? That's what legends are made of. I vote top 100 because I believe that's where he'll be ranked. Personally I think he's going to end up higher than that when all is said and done doe.

I think this is a respectable list (Apr. 2009), you can draw your own conclusions: 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Sam Langford 5. Harry Greb 6. Joe Louis 7. Ezzard Charles 8. Willie Pep 9. Roberto Duran 10. Archie Moore 11. Benny Leonard 12. Ray Leonard 13. Pernell Whitaker 14. Bob Fitzsimmons 15. Joe Gans 16. Carlos Monzon 17. Barney Ross 18. Jack Johnson 19. Marvin Hagler 20. Jimmy Wilde 21. Mickey Walker 22. Sandy Saddler 23. Manny Pacquiao 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Alexis Arguello 26. Rocky Marciano 27. Gene Tunney 28. Roy Jones Jr 29. Lennox Lewis 30. Evander Holyfield 31. Bernard Hopkins 32. Barbados Joe Walcott 33. Eder Jofre 34. Tony Canzoneri 35. Emile Griffith 36. Jack Dempsey 37. Charley Burley 38. Kid Gavilan 39. Salvador Sanchez 40. Ike Williams 41. Larry Holmes 42. Floyd Mayweather Jr 43. Thomas Hearns 44. Jimmy McLarnin 45. Stanley Ketchel 46. Tommy Loughran 47. Michael Spinks 48. Ruben Olivares 49. Jose Napoles 50. Fighting Harada 51. Wilfredo Gomez 52. Carlos Ortiz 53. Dick Tiger 54. Panama Al Brown 55. Tiger Flowers 56. Kid Chocolate 57. Bob Foster 58. Billy Conn 59. George Foreman 60. Joe Frazier 61. Aaron Pryor 62. Jake LaMotta 63. Abe Attel 64. Carmen Basilio 65. Manuel Ortiz 66. Terry McGovern 67. Tommy Ryan 68. Ricardo Lopez 69. Jim Jeffries 70. Jack Britton 71. Ted Kid Lewis 72. Carlos Zarate 73. Wilfred Benitez 74. Oscar De La Hoya 75. Felix Trinidad 76. Shane Mosley 77. Luis Manuel Rodriguez 78. Pancho Villa 79. Azumah Nelson 80. Erik Morales 81. Juan Manuel Marquez 82. Mike Tyson 83. Pascual Perez 84. Marco Antonio Barrera 85. Joe Brown 86. Joe Calzaghe 87. Harry Wills 88. Miguel Canto 89. Marcel Cerdan 90. Flash Elorde 91. Holman Williams 92. John Dundee 93. Mike McCallum 94. Antonio Cervantes 95. Nicolino Locche 96. George Dixon 97. Sonny Liston 98. Packey McFarland 99. Khaosai Galaxy 100. Benny Lynch 101. Freddie Welsh 102. Jimmy Bivins 103. Harold Johnson 104. Bob Montgomery 105. Vicente Saldivar 106. Beau Jack 107. Maxie Rosenbloom 108. Gene Fullmer 109. Eusebio Pedroza 110. Lloyd Marshall 111. Lou Ambers 112. Battling Nelson 113. James Toney 114. Jim Driscoll 115. Jeff Fenech 116. Johnny Kilbane 117. Pete Herman 118. Kosta Tszyu 119. Freddie Miller 120. Nino Benvenuti 121. Georges Carpentier 122. Ken Buchanan 123. Duilio Loi 124. Winky Wright 125. Tommy Gibbons 126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien 127. Jack Kid Berg 128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey 129. Jack Blackburn 130. Johnny Tapia Awesome list! WOW!

I think this is a respectable list (Apr. 2009), you can draw your own conclusions: 1. Sugar Ray Robinson 2. Henry Armstrong 3. Muhammad Ali 4. Sam Langford 5. Harry Greb 6. Joe Louis 7. Ezzard Charles 8. Willie Pep 9. Roberto Duran 10. Archie Moore 11. Benny Leonard 12. Ray Leonard 13. Pernell Whitaker 14. Bob Fitzsimmons 15. Joe Gans 16. Carlos Monzon 17. Barney Ross 18. Jack Johnson 19. Marvin Hagler 20. Jimmy Wilde 21. Mickey Walker 22. Sandy Saddler 23. Manny Pacquiao 24. Julio Cesar Chavez 25. Alexis Arguello 26. Rocky Marciano 27. Gene Tunney 28. Roy Jones Jr 29. Lennox Lewis 30. Evander Holyfield 31. Bernard Hopkins 32. Barbados Joe Walcott 33. Eder Jofre 34. Tony Canzoneri 35. Emile Griffith 36. Jack Dempsey 37. Charley Burley 38. Kid Gavilan 39. Salvador Sanchez 40. Ike Williams 41. Larry Holmes 42. Floyd Mayweather Jr 43. Thomas Hearns 44. Jimmy McLarnin 45. Stanley Ketchel 46. Tommy Loughran 47. Michael Spinks 48. Ruben Olivares 49. Jose Napoles 50. Fighting Harada 51. Wilfredo Gomez 52. Carlos Ortiz 53. Dick Tiger 54. Panama Al Brown 55. Tiger Flowers 56. Kid Chocolate 57. Bob Foster 58. Billy Conn 59. George Foreman 60. Joe Frazier 61. Aaron Pryor 62. Jake LaMotta 63. Abe Attel 64. Carmen Basilio 65. Manuel Ortiz 66. Terry McGovern 67. Tommy Ryan 68. Ricardo Lopez 69. Jim Jeffries 70. Jack Britton 71. Ted Kid Lewis 72. Carlos Zarate 73. Wilfred Benitez 74. Oscar De La Hoya 75. Felix Trinidad 76. Shane Mosley 77. Luis Manuel Rodriguez 78. Pancho Villa 79. Azumah Nelson 80. Erik Morales 81. Juan Manuel Marquez 82. Mike Tyson 83. Pascual Perez 84. Marco Antonio Barrera 85. Joe Brown 86. Joe Calzaghe 87. Harry Wills 88. Miguel Canto 89. Marcel Cerdan 90. Flash Elorde 91. Holman Williams 92. John Dundee 93. Mike McCallum 94. Antonio Cervantes 95. Nicolino Locche 96. George Dixon 97. Sonny Liston 98. Packey McFarland 99. Khaosai Galaxy 100. Benny Lynch 101. Freddie Welsh 102. Jimmy Bivins 103. Harold Johnson 104. Bob Montgomery 105. Vicente Saldivar 106. Beau Jack 107. Maxie Rosenbloom 108. Gene Fullmer 109. Eusebio Pedroza 110. Lloyd Marshall 111. Lou Ambers 112. Battling Nelson 113. James Toney 114. Jim Driscoll 115. Jeff Fenech 116. Johnny Kilbane 117. Pete Herman 118. Kosta Tszyu 119. Freddie Miller 120. Nino Benvenuti 121. Georges Carpentier 122. Ken Buchanan 123. Duilio Loi 124. Winky Wright 125. Tommy Gibbons 126. Philidelphia Jack O'Brien 127. Jack Kid Berg 128. Non Pareil Jack Dempsey 129. Jack Blackburn 130. Johnny Tapia

This is a very difficult question because NOBODY has a top 150 ATG list and it's difficult to compare modern greats w/old greats... A better question would be 'Where would Cotto rank among the ATG P.R. fighters if he beat Martinez for the lineal 160 title?' Carlos Ortiz, Wilfred Benitez, Felix Trinidad, Wilfredo Gomez, Hector Camacho, Edwin Rosario, Wilfredo Vazquez, Jose Torres, Esteban DeJesus, Samuel Serrano, Juan LaPorte, Edwin Rosario, Ivan Calderon, etc. I actually like your question better. For me he'd only be behind Gomez, Ortiz, Trinidad and possibly DeJesus.

I think he's a good ways behind Oscar. Probably outside the top 100 in my opinion or just inside of it. Thats no slight on him, but there have been a lot of great fighters in history. Yep. Nothing Cotto does can even touch Oscar's win over a prime WW Tito. NOTHING.

I only said 1-2 spots, because I really don't know how the rankings work. In my mind, a Martinez win is huge for Cotto, but then what? I'd have to know who he's behind, in order to properly rank him. What if he's right behind a guy like Oscar (Ex.)? Does a Martinez win really put him past Oscar? I think he's a good ways behind Oscar. Probably outside the top 100 in my opinion or just inside of it. Thats no slight on him, but there have been a lot of great fighters in history.