I can't find in any video of that imaginary balled up fist of Roach

Oh yeah, also there has been some mention of it being a set up (or at least partially) and I wouldn't totally reject this idea, cos it does happen with uncanny frequency that teams are perhaps invited to events 'accidentally' at the same time, or are perhaps denied entry when another teams already there despite having received invitations. However there is a saying (which I can't recall who to credit with) 'Never assume conspiracy when stupidity can adequately explain a situation' A function of Occams Razor: The simplest explanation is most likely to be the truest one (to paraphrase a little).

i know roach and garcia were initially at fault for what happened i dont think roach approached garcia in the right way and garcia didnt respond the way roach liked but the way ariza was mocking freddies stuttering. i find that so disrespectful and its downright scummy behaviour for him to keep on doing it. that's the thing i find most distasteful about the whole episode. a Very much this^. Garcia shoulda been professional enough to be outta there on time, or ensured that (if TR had in fact told him that he had the extra Gym time) - Roach had been informed. Roach had apparently been waiting - either 'some time' or 'patiently' according to different reports, and his initial approach to Garcia was firm but reasonable. At that point either could have resolved the situation - Garcia by saying something like - 'I'm sorry 'bout the misunderstanding, let's call TR and get it cleared up' instead of 'TR told me it was OK, I ain't budging' (to paraphrase). Roach - who I suspect may have felt was being deliberately disrespected especially given the history, then went OTT by calling him a POS and demanding that he get out. - When 'right I'm calling TR now' woulda done a better job. Both actions are understandable and actually it's TRs fault (assuming they did tell Garcia he could have the extra time) that any confrontation occurred in the first place. Put yourself in a similar scenario - there's bitterness and rivalry already - and both guys are according to their knowledge justified in their beliefs. Garcia - that he has the right to more gym time, and Roach that no-one's told him and some guys who've already badly disrespected him are just taking the piss - in fact possibly looking for a confrontation. This kinda **** misunderstanding is how the majority of fights and arguments start in my experience, specially in testosterone rich environments......but... Roach and Garcia would probably have calmed and put things to bed, had not assh#le Ariza decided to take center stage. The rest is history....an already primed Roach is goaded into advancing (it's hard to say Ariza wasn't trying to provoke a reaction, and I guess he knew what would work) -stupid, but entirely predictable in the circumstances. Whether Ariza genuinely felt threatened (despite being surrounded by other members of the camp and having initiated a huge escalation) or simply saw an opportunity to stick the boot in is up for debate, but without question it wasn't his argument to be having, but one between the two head trainers. In short - TR are at fault for failing to communicate necessary information. Garcia is at fault for intransigence Roach is at fault for being hotheaded and Ariza is at fault for being a 5star *******.

Kick a diseased person or stand around and get kicked by a diseased person, what you going to do Charlie? Right! You must be a wiz kid for retards.

I believe he's what you call ghetto. In the ghetto world I guess they can kick diseased people lol tough guys do that in their world lol for us normal people, we wouldn't do that but for a douchebag like Ariza with grudge, bitterness, jealousy and anger, it's easy for him to do that.

also which smart ass scheduled the two camps to be in the same gym on the same day? i knw they're werent meant to be there at the same time but they were obviously gna cross paths at some point are there not enough gyms in china for the two camps to train ?

If a guy was walking up to you angry saying "c'mon" would you stand and wait to see what he's going to do? so you really think Roach was on his way to jump at him like a wolf. lol you've got some wild imagination

I believe he's what you call ghetto. In the ghetto world I guess they can kick diseased people lol tough guys do that in their world lol Kick a diseased person or stand around and get kicked by a diseased person, what you going to do Charlie?

i know roach and garcia were initially at fault for what happened i dont think roach approached garcia in the right way and garcia didnt respond the way roach liked but the way ariza was mocking freddies stuttering. i find that so disrespectful and its downright scummy behaviour for him to keep on doing it. that's the thing i find most distasteful about the whole episode. a

I don't know what you're trying to say but maybe you're an aggresive type of person who suddenly kicks out of nowhere I believe he's what you call ghetto. In the ghetto world I guess they can kick diseased people lol tough guys do that in their world lol

He shouldn't have kicked Roach, but honestly I'd have probably booted him too if he turned his attention toward me as they basically hated eachother well before all this crap happened.

lI don't know but maybe you're an aggresive type of person who suddenly kicks out of nowhere If a guy was walking up to you angry saying "c'mon" would you stand and wait to see what he's going to do?

where? so the girl-kick was a counter attack? I didn't see any fist flying. He is imagining a live threat with an invisible fist that must have been a squared up Parkinson man. He thinks squaring up is without the proper fist balling. His take isn't even coinciding with Ariza's alibi that roaches fist balling. He really must be the all time defender of Ariza hehehehe!

We've got here a defender for Girly kicking a Parkinson's man. Way to go dude. You sound retarded. ;) How can a retarded guy such as yourself judge whom is retarded? You don't even know that you are.

He didn't give him the chance to attack so how can it be a counter? It was a pre-emptive strike. I don't know what you're trying to say but maybe you're an aggresive type of person who suddenly kicks out of nowhere

LOL, Garcia said it in a calm polite way, Roach was peac0cking. We've got here a defender for Girly kicking a Parkinson's man. Way to go dude. You sound retarded. ;)

he told them in a nice way at first but Garcia tried to be a tough bastard and told him that they're not going anywhere LOL, Garcia said it in a calm polite way, Roach was peac0cking.

yea,,,,they were both wrong. roach could have told Garcia to leave the gym in a nicer way. thats how it started but I stll feel azira was the biggest a holes of them all he told them in a nice way at first but Garcia tried to be a tough bastard and told him that they're not going anywhere

where? so the girl-kick was a counter attack? I didn't see any fist flying. He didn't give him the chance to attack so how can it be a counter? It was a pre-emptive strike.

Yes he was due to Ariza not giving him the chance to hit him. where? so the girl-kick was a counter attack? I didn't see any fist flying.

You're talking out of your ass, Roach was walking towards him saying "c'mon", is Ariza supposed to stand and wait until he gets hit before he retaliates? You're trying to make Roach out to be a weak old man when he isn't, true he has parkinsons but physically he is fit and knows how to fight. It's not like he kicked his ass and stamped on his head, it was a kick to keep him away. yea,,,,they were both wrong. roach could have told Garcia to leave the gym in a nicer way. thats how it started but I stll feel azira was the biggest a holes of them all