Mexican "class"??

It's a fight not bible study you cry baby. Respect is for after the fight. Leading up to and during the fight, you're trying to beat your opponent not cuddle with them. LeBron James ass fool. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android Lmaooooo Best post in this thread

Quote: Originally Posted by robust_ First, Spanish =/= Portugese. Of course calling someone by their first or whole name is more respectful. No on is disputing that. But not referring to someone by their name doesn't necessarily make it disrespectful. That's going way too far. Second, it's not just Spanish, the cultural norms he knows and adheres to are individualistic; they derive from his own personal experience and where he was raised. There is no such thing as universally accepted social norms. People raised in different parts of the same country could have completely different views on what is socially acceptable. Third, you're mincing his speech and applying standards that I do not think apply to him. You're assuming he's informed of this universal standard. Furthermore, you're assuming he's willfully neglecting to adhere to social norms in an effort to be disrespectful. How would you prove such intent on behalf of Nacho based on one sentence? You, just like OP, lack proof to validate what you're saying. If you're trying to say that it's more respectful to refer to someone by their first name than any other name or word, then yes, most would agree. However, that's where any agreement would end. STFU already man , with your technicalities. Nacho knows it's very ****ing disrespectful to do what he did. PERIOD!! He did it , big whoop!! It's done , be should know better. If Bradley would have called JMM "that Mexican" they'll be bashing him on Twitter or something most likely. But nobody knows what happened. Just Spanish people. Were I was watching it was being discussed too. Everybody agreed. Disrespectful!!!!!!!! It's a fight not bible study you cry baby. Respect is for after the fight. Leading up to and during the fight, you're trying to beat your opponent not cuddle with them. LeBron James ass fool. Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

damn this fight has really brought out the crazies

Maxy is undefeated on these boards and always will be. Please come at the king with stronger arguments and stronger evidence. Also, address the merits of my posts. King stays the king. Dude, I hate to break it to you but you're not funny at all.

In a matter of hours. 2 to be exact. Their best fighter losses ,the crowd calls the homosexual fighter "puto" I believe it was , JMM whines yet another time about a loss , and finally Nacho Beristain calls Bradley "Ese Negro" ( that black guy). Like Bradley is so hard to say. Not cool at all. you forgot to mention when Nacho told Freddie if he wanted to suck his dick in Spanish. lol go to 6:00 of the video

Mexican boxing fans tend to be immature crowds for some reason. any fanbase that orients themselves based on nationality is "immature."

English is my second language as well. No excuses, bro. I know what "Ese..." means too, and it is not disrespectful. "Ese" in front of Negro,Blanco,Filipino,Mexicano,Chino etc etc , is very disrespectful. That's what I meant. Not just the word alone. I just want to make that clear. In spanish. VERY!!!! If you say it ISN'T , I'm sorry but I just can't take you serious from now on. Are you even Latino , or speak any Spanish?

You're right it's late. Go to sleep lil *****. I'll be here to school you whenever you want. For the record, I just read your post again. What exactly am I supposed to argue with? The only two things you do are: explain that cultures differ and what is acceptable in one may not be in another (obviously), and contradict yourself on the issue I pointed out. Why would I argue with these other "merits" that are so obvious no one would dispute them? You're kidding yourself pumpkin. Adeus, it's been fun kid. When you complimented me and called me educated I should have realized you were ready to suck my díck. Guess I blew my chance. ****.

Referring to someone as "negro" in Spanish does not have the same meaning or connotation as it does in English. Furthermore, your post is perpetuating that which you are condemning. "Their" best fighter? You're singling out a whole race/ethnicity based on 2 people, and a crowd of people at an event. that's what racists do... but rest assured the OP won't be able to accept that

The difference is not non-existent. The only path to addressing the disrespect issue is to, for the sake of argument, assume that universal social norms exist in the first place, which I then refute. They're two separate issues that are built upon each other. I probably should have structured the post different, in that the first paragraph should have been last, but it doesn't do anything to the argument itself. Maybe I should put headers next time so you can follow. EDIT: the point we're "arguing" you yourself described as your main point. Don't act as if I'm avoiding any of your banal and painfully obvious other "points" - if they can even be called that - about the differences between cultures. I hate to break it to you but this argument is over. You keep saying that you disagree with the idea of universal social norms and yet you immediately accept that calling someone by name is more respectful. You can wriggle all you want and tell me how you should have worded it better and so on, but we both know you contridicta-fûcked yourself and stumbled into an argument with someone who thrives on such comic mishaps. Anyway, it's 3:40 AM. I'm going to sleep. Keep in mind that I'm available for private tutoring. It can be a total secret and no one will need to know the "King" signed up for help.

English is my second language as well. No excuses, bro. I know what "Ese..." means too, and it is not disrespectful. In which case I'll excuse some of your funny little mishaps.

This is the sentence I'm referring to. You've taken my quote entirely out of context. That entire portion of my argument was referring to the issue of disrespect, not to your posited theory of "universally accepted social norms." Therefore, I still do not see any inconsistencies. Any admission you think I made was clearly made arguendo only to refute a issue based upon a premise I subsequently rejected. Again: try again. I see you're educated, as am I. That's where our resemblance ends. The quote you cherry-picked as the one you want me to pay attention to does little more than to establish that you contradict the fück out of yourself several times even in one post. This is fairly straightforward. You are saying that you never assumed any sort of universal values. Unfortunately, in the very first paragraph of the relevant post you contradict that by saying "of course referring to someone by name is more respectful." The difference you're trying to point out is actually non-existent. The issue of disrespect is informed by values, thus linking it directly to your very unfortunately contradiction-mishap. You don't see any inconsistencies? It's not my responsibility to hold your hand through this process and point out exactly how often you are inconsistent. I've done enough of that, and it's plain as day. I suppose we're both reasonably educated, but it's confounding that you seem to know words like "arguendo" and yet can't sort out when to use "a" or "an". Perhaps that's the one thing you would let me teach you?

I said most would agree it's more respectful. Didn't say all, because as you noted, that would be inconsistent. Go back and read my post. What I posted was consistent, you failed to pay attention to the language I used. At least you're catching the nuances this time. I think it's time for you to both read more carefully and pick up one of my logic books. Then try again. Gee, I'm trying real hard to "pay attention to the language you used": Of course calling someone by their first or whole name is more respectful. No on is disputing that. But not referring to someone by their name doesn't necessarily make it disrespectful. Look, we all get in arguments we lose. We all, at some point or another, contradict the fück out of ourselves. This is one of those times for you. I see a little of myself in you, but you've still got one hell of a lot to learn. My turn: try again.

Nice try at attempting to summarize my main point, but you missed. My main point was that the norms he is familiar with are a combination of individual experience and regional influences (i.e. people from different parts of Mexico has different social standards). So yes, it is relevant to my argument. You could even say it's my main point. What I disagree with is you trying to turn a generalization into a "universally accepted" social norm. That's a little ridiculous. It may seem practical in your mind, but when you remove the verbage you've surrounded the concept with, it is still just that, a generalization. So while, I concede in some cultures it may be more respectful to refer to someone by their name, that is not the case for all cultures, including Nacho's. If you're missing that important nuance, then our conversation is over. Again, you are using a logical fallacy in saying, "believe me." What credence is injected to your argument by me "believing you?" Try again. If Nacho does not know about "ese" then I would understand. However , I'm going to believe he does. Even if it is acceptable in "his region" , it's ****ed up , because he knows Bradley's name. And he could've used it.

Nice try at attempting to summarize my main point, but you missed. My main point was that the norms he is familiar with are a combination of individual experience and regional influences (i.e. people from different parts of Mexico has different social standards). So yes, it is relevant to my argument. You could even say it's my main point. What I disagree with is you trying to turn a generalization into a "universally accepted" social norm. That's a little ridiculous. It may seem practical in your mind, but when you remove the verbage you've surrounded the concept with, it is still just that, a generalization. So while, I concede in some cultures it may be more respectful to refer to someone by their name, that is not the case for all cultures, including Nacho's. If you're missing that important nuance, then our conversation is over. Again, you are using a logical fallacy in saying, "believe me." What credence is injected to your argument by me "believing you?" Try again. Again, it seems as if your opinion of your own basic arguing skills has clouded your judgement. You object the idea of universal values and defend Nacho on this basis. This to you apparently means he is not being "disrespectful" because it may not be disrespectful under his values. At the same time, you without hesitation accept the idea that referring to someone by their name is more respectful (therefore referring to someone by their race is inherently less respectful). The problem with these two ideas is that they are not compatible. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, and you're both rejecting the idea of universal values and accepting them at the same time whenever it suits your argument. You had better read your textbook's section on logical fallacies over again - you've missed a key point. My point is that it's less respectful than calling Bradley by his name, and that's something that took about 3 minutes to get you to accept, so I'm not sure why I'm arguing further.

Well , you two are ****ing confusing me. English is my second language. And you two are using too many big words. I know what "Ese ......." means and I don't need anybody telling me if it is or not disrespectful I know it is.

First, Spanish =/= Portugese. Of course calling someone by their first or whole name is more respectful. No on is disputing that. But not referring to someone by their name doesn't necessarily make it disrespectful. That's going way too far. Second, it's not just Spanish, the cultural norms he knows and adheres to are individualistic; they derive from his own personal experience and where he was raised. There is no such thing as universally accepted social norms. People raised in different parts of the same country could have completely different views on what is socially acceptable. Third, you're mincing his speech and applying standards that I do not think apply to him. You're assuming he's informed of this universal standard. Furthermore, you're assuming he's willfully neglecting to adhere to social norms in an effort to be disrespectful. How would you prove such intent on behalf of Nacho based on one sentence? You, just like OP, lack proof to validate what you're saying. If you're trying to say that it's more respectful to refer to someone by their first name than any other name or word, then yes, most would agree. However, that's where any agreement would end. Quite a lengthy response for such a trivial issue. It's hardly controversial for me to suggest that referring to someone, whose name you know very well, by their race instead "sounds disrespectful". You also needn't point out that the languages are different because I'll sure you'll notice the similarity between "ese negro" e "esse negro" (I understand that ese is colloquial), but I'll assume you are referring to some cultural differences between, say, México and Brasil. Unfortunately that's not relevant to your argument either because your point is that Nacho need not follow any cultural norm, no matter how universally accepted it is (and oh, believe me, this one is). I'm not the one saying that he's basically calling Bradley an N word, but even you immediately accept that reference to someone's race rather than their name is inherently less respectful, which is pretty much the entirety of my point. How you typed so much in disagreement whilst agreeing with my main point is surprising to me. I'll also just point out that it's a slight contradiction to on the one hand suggest that there are no universally accepted cultural norms (and therefore we can't possibly label Nacho disrespectful) and on the other hand accept the idea immediately that it's at least "less respectful", which would seem to indicate the adherence to some set of norms you do think are universal.

See, this is why I don't invest time responding to people. You're using anecdotal evidence to support what you're saying. "Even a kid knows that's wrong," "everyone I saw the fight with said it was disrespectful," "he know's what he did!!" "PERIOD!!" Or, the attempt to be more refined, "everyone knows that's dismissive!!!" "I don't care who you are!!" The most difficult part about forums and trying to actually engage in discussion is that posters don't understand how argumentation works or the basic tenets to writing an argument. Instead they try to insult the poster (go talk about something else) or deflect what is being written and addressed. OP: you can be defensive as you want. I am not going to post any further in this excellent thread. I guess I don't know how to , "argue"????? I do know it was disrespectful what he said. Don't know how you don't see it. I guess common sense is not that common.

First, Spanish =/= Portugese. Of course calling someone by their first or whole name is more respectful. No on is disputing that. But not referring to someone by their name doesn't necessarily make it disrespectful. That's going way too far. Second, it's not just Spanish, the cultural norms he knows and adheres to are individualistic; they derive from his own personal experience and where he was raised. There is no such thing as universally accepted social norms. People raised in different parts of the same country could have completely different views on what is socially acceptable. Third, you're mincing his speech and applying standards that I do not think apply to him. You're assuming he's informed of this universal standard. Furthermore, you're assuming he's willfully neglecting to adhere to social norms in an effort to be disrespectful. How would you prove such intent on behalf of Nacho based on one sentence? You, just like OP, lack proof to validate what you're saying. If you're trying to say that it's more respectful to refer to someone by their first name than any other name or word, then yes, most would agree. However, that's where any agreement would end. STFU already man , with your technicalities. Nacho knows it's very ****ing disrespectful to do what he did. PERIOD!! He did it , big whoop!! It's done , be should know better. If Bradley would have called JMM "that Mexican" they'll be bashing him on Twitter or something most likely. But nobody knows what happened. Just Spanish people. Were I was watching it was being discussed too. Everybody agreed. Disrespectful!!!!!!!!

Referring to someone by their race rather than their name is dismissive, period. Doesn't matter what language you're speaking. Like Nacho doesn't know Bradley's name. That's wrong man. That's all I'm saying. Even kids know these things.